As an aside to the previous thread...
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Define American? Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al. There are terms for Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, but for White Americans, there is only 'American'. May I humbly suggest Euro-Americans? After all, Europe is where white people came from.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
No, the Cherokee were (and still are) citizens of the Cherokee Nation, the others held allegiance to their tribe, and did not recognize the name 'America'. For immigrant white folk, we prefer to be more specific: Irish-American, Scottish_American, Italian-American, etc. :rolleyes:
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No, the Cherokee were (and still are) citizens of the Cherokee Nation, the others held allegiance to their tribe, and did not recognize the name 'America'. For immigrant white folk, we prefer to be more specific: Irish-American, Scottish_American, Italian-American, etc. :rolleyes:
Any English-American?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Any English-American?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
I've heard British-American used, but not English-American. I'm inclined to agree with you that it's all pretty silly though. If we go back far enough, all of us are of African origin... I am of the opinion that those who chose to identify themselves as a "choose your origin or color"-American are more interested in emphasizing their difference than anything else, and I suspect them of a bit of bigotry.
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Any English-American?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Define American? Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al. There are terms for Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, but for White Americans, there is only 'American'. May I humbly suggest Euro-Americans? After all, Europe is where white people came from.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al.
:rolleyes: Surely not. There were groups in the Americas prior to the last crossing of the land bridge from Eurasia. That last invasion drove the existing groups into South America. The North American Indians were invaders as well. It all depends on how far back in history you want to go. Where are your ancestors from? Any chance you have some Roman mixed in? Are you Italian-English? Are you Celtic? Saxon? Gaul? Do you know or care? I am Native American. I was born here. I didn't occupy, or invade. My roots are here. I identify myself by my national heritage, my culture. I am an American, just like you are English. Or else we are ALL African-[whatever], since we are from the same root stock.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al.
:rolleyes: Surely not. There were groups in the Americas prior to the last crossing of the land bridge from Eurasia. That last invasion drove the existing groups into South America. The North American Indians were invaders as well. It all depends on how far back in history you want to go. Where are your ancestors from? Any chance you have some Roman mixed in? Are you Italian-English? Are you Celtic? Saxon? Gaul? Do you know or care? I am Native American. I was born here. I didn't occupy, or invade. My roots are here. I identify myself by my national heritage, my culture. I am an American, just like you are English. Or else we are ALL African-[whatever], since we are from the same root stock.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
There were groups in the Americas prior to the last crossing of the land bridge from Eurasia. That last invasion drove the existing groups into South America. The North American Indians were invaders as well. It all depends on how far back in history you want to go.
Kennewick Man[^] provides some insight into the politics involved in the native movement which revolves around who arrived when and pushed out whom. Of course, as the article points out, most of them claim to have been here forever. And like many religions the science that says otherwise be damned.
The wonderful thing about the Darwin Awards is that everyone wins, especially the members of the audience.
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Define American? Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al. There are terms for Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, but for White Americans, there is only 'American'. May I humbly suggest Euro-Americans? After all, Europe is where white people came from.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Any English-American?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
My personal feeling on that is that I would hate to be referred to as British-American or English-American. I will always be "from Britain", I'm proud of that fact and I do fight the stereotypes that come with that. However, I have moved here to live my life, and as soon as is possible will take the citizenship test and become a full American citizen.
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Define American? Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al. There are terms for Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, but for White Americans, there is only 'American'. May I humbly suggest Euro-Americans? After all, Europe is where white people came from.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Weird. I use White, Black, Oriental, and Spic. I'm old school, yo.
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Define American? Surely the only Americans are the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Apache et al. There are terms for Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, but for White Americans, there is only 'American'. May I humbly suggest Euro-Americans? After all, Europe is where white people came from.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Well, I suppose you could look at it several different ways. Since the word America wasn't used until the 16th century when Amerigo Vespucci first called it that, I supposed anyone on the continents at that time could be called Americans, since it referred to the "4th" continent or "New World" as the Europeans understood it at that time. But you would have to include anyone on North and South America since it was considered one continent at the time. Or, you could look at what people generally mean when they say America...meaning the United States of America. So, true Americans could be those descended from anyone living in the colonies when we declared independence. Granted, a lot of people could claim that right, but it would limit it somewhat. I, for instance, can trace my ancestry to the Mayflower, so I would consider myself an American for sure using this ideology. Personally, I feel that using a split terminology, like African-American or British-American, etc... should only be used by those that are themselves transplants. I've spent some time in Africa and many of the Africans that I've spent time with were slightly offended by the term African-American to refer to the majority of blacks in the US since many were descended from those "living" in the US at the time of our independence. (I say living in quotes, because it's hard to claim that slavery allowed them to actually "live"). And I should say that they were really only slightly offended because, they didn't really care all that much what someone wanted to call themselves. I say, if you were born in the US and still live in the US, you are American...nothing more, nothing less. As as aside, do people in the UK say they're African-Brits? Do people in Germany say they're Asian-Germans?
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Well, I suppose you could look at it several different ways. Since the word America wasn't used until the 16th century when Amerigo Vespucci first called it that, I supposed anyone on the continents at that time could be called Americans, since it referred to the "4th" continent or "New World" as the Europeans understood it at that time. But you would have to include anyone on North and South America since it was considered one continent at the time. Or, you could look at what people generally mean when they say America...meaning the United States of America. So, true Americans could be those descended from anyone living in the colonies when we declared independence. Granted, a lot of people could claim that right, but it would limit it somewhat. I, for instance, can trace my ancestry to the Mayflower, so I would consider myself an American for sure using this ideology. Personally, I feel that using a split terminology, like African-American or British-American, etc... should only be used by those that are themselves transplants. I've spent some time in Africa and many of the Africans that I've spent time with were slightly offended by the term African-American to refer to the majority of blacks in the US since many were descended from those "living" in the US at the time of our independence. (I say living in quotes, because it's hard to claim that slavery allowed them to actually "live"). And I should say that they were really only slightly offended because, they didn't really care all that much what someone wanted to call themselves. I say, if you were born in the US and still live in the US, you are American...nothing more, nothing less. As as aside, do people in the UK say they're African-Brits? Do people in Germany say they're Asian-Germans?
The standard way lands were named was by surname, not forename, unless you were royalty. Thusly Abel Tasman gave us Tasmania, James Cook, the Cook Islands, and so on. So if it were named after Amerigo Vespucci it would likely be Vespucci Land. To think that he named it, or that it was named after him is fallacious, there is no evidence of it, and this perception has remained largely unchallenged mainly due to bad teaching and lazy, unquestioning minds. It was probably named after Richard Amerike[^]. Certainly it is his surname that is important here, unlike Amerigo Vespucci. It really is amazing that some things that are quite clearly wrong persist in the collective mindset for so long.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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The standard way lands were named was by surname, not forename, unless you were royalty. Thusly Abel Tasman gave us Tasmania, James Cook, the Cook Islands, and so on. So if it were named after Amerigo Vespucci it would likely be Vespucci Land. To think that he named it, or that it was named after him is fallacious, there is no evidence of it, and this perception has remained largely unchallenged mainly due to bad teaching and lazy, unquestioning minds. It was probably named after Richard Amerike[^]. Certainly it is his surname that is important here, unlike Amerigo Vespucci. It really is amazing that some things that are quite clearly wrong persist in the collective mindset for so long.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
There is actually far less evidence to support Amerike. And it would be fallacious (since you used to word) to state that all lands must by named after someone's surname. And, there certainly is evidence showing that America was named after Vespucci. The earliest known use of the word "America" as a name for the continent was on a map created in 1507 by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller. In a book that he wrote to accompany the map, he wrote, ""But now these parts (Europe, Africa, and Asia) have been extensively explored, and a fourth part has been discovered by Americus Vespuccius; I do not see what right any one would have to object to calling this part Americus; who discovered it and who is a man of intelligence, and so to name it Amerige, that is the land of Americus, or America, since both Europa and Asia got their names from women." Here's a USA Today article on it: Cartographer put 'America' on the map 500 years ago[^] To any extent, there is even less evidence to support a claim that America was named after Amerike. There is only speculation. The speculation goes that John Cabot, who was paid for his travels by Amerike may have named an island "America". There is a letter that shows that Cabot sent a map to Columbus, but there is first, no evidence that any map Cabot made had that name on it, and secondly, that if there was a map with that name on it, that that was the map sent to Columbus. And if you're getting your information from the book Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name, here's a review of the book (BOOK REVIEW-The True Story of How America Got Its Name[^]) and an article challenging the assumptions in that book (THE NAMING OF AMERICA: FRAGMENTS WE'VE SHORED AGAINST OURSELVES[^]) The truth is, no one really knows, but the earliest evidence and facts we have of the continents of the Americas being called "America" was created with the assumption that it was named after Vespucci
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There is actually far less evidence to support Amerike. And it would be fallacious (since you used to word) to state that all lands must by named after someone's surname. And, there certainly is evidence showing that America was named after Vespucci. The earliest known use of the word "America" as a name for the continent was on a map created in 1507 by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller. In a book that he wrote to accompany the map, he wrote, ""But now these parts (Europe, Africa, and Asia) have been extensively explored, and a fourth part has been discovered by Americus Vespuccius; I do not see what right any one would have to object to calling this part Americus; who discovered it and who is a man of intelligence, and so to name it Amerige, that is the land of Americus, or America, since both Europa and Asia got their names from women." Here's a USA Today article on it: Cartographer put 'America' on the map 500 years ago[^] To any extent, there is even less evidence to support a claim that America was named after Amerike. There is only speculation. The speculation goes that John Cabot, who was paid for his travels by Amerike may have named an island "America". There is a letter that shows that Cabot sent a map to Columbus, but there is first, no evidence that any map Cabot made had that name on it, and secondly, that if there was a map with that name on it, that that was the map sent to Columbus. And if you're getting your information from the book Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name, here's a review of the book (BOOK REVIEW-The True Story of How America Got Its Name[^]) and an article challenging the assumptions in that book (THE NAMING OF AMERICA: FRAGMENTS WE'VE SHORED AGAINST OURSELVES[^]) The truth is, no one really knows, but the earliest evidence and facts we have of the continents of the Americas being called "America" was created with the assumption that it was named after Vespucci