Bleat bleat bleat, my names Christian, the un Christian, who wants the have nots to keep on having not
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The housing bubble is fueled by central banks pumping cheap credit into the market with fresh currency that it created out of thin air. If their were a free market (one without government intervention and central bank manipulation) home prices would normalize down to their true value, and prices of goods and services along with incomes would find their proper balance.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
In a free market, the only form of power is wealth. Those with more money, gain more power. The more power you have, the easier it is to gain more money.
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in a free market economy government's cant force markets to do anything, and therefor business can't buy government power. The big guys need government power to retain and expand their wealth, otherwise market forces will threaten their monopolies. Also, just because a business is big that doesn't mean its bad, it only becomes bad when it can buy government power. That is why government power should be limited, because then they can't buy government power to influence the markets to their advantage.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The stereotypical success story of someone getting a "great idea" and getting rich generally doesn't apply to the lower class, but rather to the middle class, who may have the ability to act on that idea.
Everyone starts out poor, even if you are born into a middle class or rich family, that doesn't mean your parents are going to give you money. You work, and earn a living. However if the markets are controlled by the government, the little guy is always going to be shafted because government power will be bought and used to rob and enslave the public to enrich the controllers with cast amounts of power and wealth. If someone has a great idea, and can persuade investors that he/she can make a profit, investors will certain invest capital.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Take Walmart, for example.
Walmart wouldn't be able to exist as it does now in a free market, because they would't be receiving indirect subsidies through their employees. They don't have to pay their employees much because their employees collect some type of welfare.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in a free market economy government's cant force markets to do anything, and therefor business can't buy government power. The big guys need government power to retain and expand their wealth, otherwise market forces will threaten their monopolies. Also, just because a business is big that doesn't mean its bad, it only becomes bad when it can buy government power. That is why government power should be limited, because then they can't buy government power to influence the markets to their advantage.
I didn't say "government power." I said "power."
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everyone starts out poor, even if you are born into a middle class or rich family, that doesn't mean your parents are going to give you money. You work, and earn a living. However if the markets are controlled by the government, the little guy is always going to be shafted because government power will be bought and used to rob and enslave the public to enrich the controllers with cast amounts of power and wealth. If someone has a great idea, and can persuade investors that he/she can make a profit, investors will certain invest capital.
Welcome to the real world, where the real wealth is passed down through generations. If an uneducated peasant has a great idea (Which is already a rare occurrence), where's he going to get the business sense to be able to pitch that idea to wealthy investors, without losing control over it? Remember, as you keep telling us, public education is a Bad Thing (tm), so education would cost money that the peasant doesn't have. He's lucky if he can do basic algebra, let alone design a new product.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Walmart wouldn't be able to exist as it does now in a free market, because they would't be receiving indirect subsidies through their employees. They don't have to pay their employees much because their employees collect some type of welfare.
Right. They'd pay even less. Their current salaries are limited at the bottom end by federal minimum wage laws, which you've said on more than one occasion that you oppose. According to the first Google result[^] I came across (Not going to waste hours researchi
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Distind wrote:
Last I checked the little guys generally only made it by hitting niches the big guys wouldn't touch, and then eventually getting wiped out by someone who's doing the same thing with a bigger budget.
Last time I checked we haven't had a free market since 1913.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
In a free market, the only form of power is wealth. Those with more money, gain more power. The more power you have, the easier it is to gain more money.
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in a free market economy government's cant force markets to do anything, and therefor business can't buy government power. The big guys need government power to retain and expand their wealth, otherwise market forces will threaten their monopolies. Also, just because a business is big that doesn't mean its bad, it only becomes bad when it can buy government power. That is why government power should be limited, because then they can't buy government power to influence the markets to their advantage.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The stereotypical success story of someone getting a "great idea" and getting rich generally doesn't apply to the lower class, but rather to the middle class, who may have the ability to act on that idea.
Everyone starts out poor, even if you are born into a middle class or rich family, that doesn't mean your parents are going to give you money. You work, and earn a living. However if the markets are controlled by the government, the little guy is always going to be shafted because government power will be bought and used to rob and enslave the public to enrich the controllers with cast amounts of power and wealth. If someone has a great idea, and can persuade investors that he/she can make a profit, investors will certain invest capital.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Take Walmart, for example.
Walmart wouldn't be able to exist as it does now in a free market, because they would't be receiving indirect subsidies through their employees. They don't have to pay their employees much because their employees collect some type of welfare.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Wahahahaha, let me laugh to your arguments, Walmart is a perfect example of free market, size, money and power... you and your ideas, again, fail, you know nothing about economics, free market
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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The housing bubble is fueled by central banks pumping cheap credit into the market with fresh currency that it created out of thin air. If their were a free market (one without government intervention and central bank manipulation) home prices would normalize down to their true value, and prices of goods and services along with incomes would find their proper balance.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
go to wikipedia and read about this!!! you have no idea what you're talking about, it has hundreds of links to reliable resources where you can read what happened... stop reading your conspiracy sites that don't have a single way to support what they say!!! you're becoming the ignorant monkey that you despise so bad... get your facts right!!!
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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go to wikipedia and read about this!!! you have no idea what you're talking about, it has hundreds of links to reliable resources where you can read what happened... stop reading your conspiracy sites that don't have a single way to support what they say!!! you're becoming the ignorant monkey that you despise so bad... get your facts right!!!
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Gonzoox wrote:
|234d W1k1p3d14!!!!!!##@@~~!! 11nkz!@! U |\/|0nk3y!#
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Gonzoox wrote:
|234d W1k1p3d14!!!!!!##@@~~!! 11nkz!@! U |\/|0nk3y!#
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
If (someone points out you are ignorant)
{
smeghole.ActLickadouche.insultthem.usel33tsp33k.makenosense();
}
else
ignore.donothingandhopetheydontcallyouonit(); -
Mr Graus here, I have LOTS of money. So much in fact that I am going to buy ANOTHER house when prices drop, which I want them to, so I can make even more nonexistant wealth based on debt and speculation, just like I did with my existing pile of stone. And anyone who hasnt got a house FUCK OFF! You cant have mine! I might rent you my other one when I buy it, after I have converted it onto a set of rabbit hutches unfit for human habitation and scew you for exorbitant rent money because banks wont give you any HA HA! I am not a Christian, but I considder myself far more concerned with the plight of people forced to live in shitty housing (like flats in converted houses without propper noise insulation, and no where for the kids to play) than it appears Christians do. No. Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Have you been drinking again ?
fat_boy wrote:
So much in fact that I am going to buy ANOTHER house when prices drop, which I want them to, so I can make even more nonexistant wealth based on debt and speculation, just like I did with my existing pile of stone.
Hmmm.... Well, not sure if it's any of your business but, I don't have a mortgage because I created a product and sold it, and that's how I used my money. I don't have enough money to outright buy another house, but I am young enough that I can afford to have another mortgage when prices are good. I would like to see prices drop because I think they are too high, and I do believe that affordability is in the toilet, which is one reason the prices are unsustainable. I don't think that every person has a 'right' to a home, some people will always find they can't afford to buy a house, and that's life. However, based on the fact I own two houses outright, my short term 'wealth' will obviously suffer when prices drop. It's not a case of what I want, it's a case of what I see is inevitable, and therefore, my plans for another investment property ( which are largely based on my having two kids and wanting a house per child, so I can help them enter the market ), involve waiting for the drop that I see likely.
fat_boy wrote:
And anyone who hasnt got a house f*** OFF! You cant have mine!
Unless you're one of my kids, hell yes. Why should you have mine ? I worked hard for it.
fat_boy wrote:
I might rent you my other one when I buy it, after I have converted it onto a set of rabbit hutches unfit for human habitation and scew you for exorbitant rent money because banks wont give you any HA HA!
Again, this is none of your business, however, the average rent for a house where I live is rising rapidly, 13% last year. It's now around $320 a week. The property I rent out is on 5 acres, and I've also been renovating it, so I should be able to get at least the average rent for it. I charge $240. I rent to a single mother with 2 kids, and every year I consider that I should put the rent up but I decide I don't need the money enough to cause her the hardship.
fat_boy wrote:
No. Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
If families do not have the ability to put a roof over their head, then s
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Gonzoox wrote:
|234d W1k1p3d14!!!!!!##@@~~!! 11nkz!@! U |\/|0nk3y!#
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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fat_boy wrote:
Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
Bullshit. Generally people have a responsibility to ensure they can provide for a family before creating one. We would have liked to have children sooner but we choose to delay it so she could keep working and we could build up our savings. That's allowed her to remain a full time mum for almost two years rather than our son being stuck in day care from three months old.
That's ridiculous. It's almost like you're saying that people should be responsible for their own actions !!!!
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Hi, my name is David and I worked hard at school. I went to college and to university, then did time in the army and took a junior accounts position so that I could learn the trade. I worked my way up, via various junior clerical to senior clerical to junior management positions, then I gave that up and worked for a firm of accountants for 4 years as an auditor so that I could gain my professional qualifications, the I went back into the business side. I am now a company accountant who is also doing a degree in life sciences for no other reason than I like learning. I also have spent my own time and money investing in new tech skills, I paid for a programming course out of MY salary, an d used MY time in which to learn and acquire new skills. At the end of it I have found myself to be very lucky, somehow someone offered me a job with good salary good location and a senior position. Gosh, I wonder how that came about? I must have just been born lucky. Oh no, wait, SHEER HARD BLOODY WORK! That's what did it. I didn't slope off school and hang around with the 'cool' kids when I was at school, I didn't wank over how life was really unfair, I knew life was unfair and knew that learning and working was the only way to success. Now I have success, I have my own home, several cars, a great wife and a generous income. I travel the world, do mad and wierd things and have little worries. I too will be buying a second property soon, because I want security and a private income. So what, I have earned it, so too has Christian. Your post is that of the Politics of Envy. If you work hard and save and go without you too could have these things. The secret of getting something is to want it enough. Don't eat steak, eat beans, and soon the money is there. I did it, CG did it, are we all wankers? or just hard workers who have knuckled down and got on with it?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Hi, my name's William. Blah hard work blah. I own - no mortgage - two flats and a house. Guess I'm just lucky,
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right.
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
Very well put, and also very correct. Well done. Rights and responsbilities... it will never catch on!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! If you like cars, check out the Booger Mobile blog | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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fat_boy wrote:
Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
Bullshit. Generally people have a responsibility to ensure they can provide for a family before creating one. We would have liked to have children sooner but we choose to delay it so she could keep working and we could build up our savings. That's allowed her to remain a full time mum for almost two years rather than our son being stuck in day care from three months old.
Josh Gray wrote:
Generally people have a responsibility to ensure they can provide for a family before creating one. We would have liked to have children sooner but we choose to delay it so she could keep working and we could build up our savings. That's allowed her to remain a full time mum for almost two years rather than our son being stuck in day care from three months old.
Ah, so those who just work in factories and cant earn any more will have to forgo having children while houses are proced out of their reach?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Degree and IQ has nothing to do with else i'd have a large house and a holiday and lots of fast cars. Locations helps when buying homes in the UK. A flat where i live will cost around £120,000. Where i work in oxfordshire it would cost around £140,000 for a starter home. So i rent a home, a cheap home while i get monies sorted to buy a house. While i agree its blooming annoying watching people buy second homes, more cars etc ( no disrepect to them also!) but they've worked for it. As if i could I would also. just my 2 pence worth
Simon_Whale wrote:
Degree and IQ has nothing to do with
Ah, yes, so there is no correlation between intelligence and income just because you claim ot be super clever and yet you arent super rich. Has it ever occured to you that the rest of the world is different to you?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Then it's no a matter of getting a decent house, I know lots of people who live in apartments of 600 sq/feet with wife and a kid (at least) and have a decent place to live, the kid(s) get enough "garden" time at the public park a few blocks away. And that's life in most cities, big cities, around the world, where space is limited, and building there is more expensive due demand of a place to live. Living in the country doesn't give any warranty to people that they will find a decent job according to their career, some might be lucky enough to get a decent job in a small town and have a nice living. The first thing you need to start explaining before complaining is what is decent for you? a house with 3 or more bedrooms? 2 or more bathrooms? 3000 or more sq/feet? 5 acres of garden? a pool?, your "decent" can be different to my "decent" place to live... And now, after that you need to explain what is a decent life for you? a person/family that makes 120,000/year? maybe more? 5 kids running in the house? just 2? I know people who live with half of that and have a very decent life, so please, before you continue with your rant, explain what is decent for you
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
modified on Monday, April 26, 2010 12:23 PM
You are talking COntinental style appartements. Yes, they are good. In the UK though a flat will have one or two rooms, crappy sound insulation, no garden, and parking if you are lucky. And they cost £120,000. And an averagy guy ina factory might take home £1400 a month.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Agreed. Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
Fuck me. You really think that people are that clever, including you? You think you are that responsible, including you? Hypocrit. Preaching pfrom a position of luck. (Yes, you were born into a wealthy country with a white skin and the genetic heredity that allows you to become an accountant. Take that away, be lower caste in India or somewhere, and then apply the same rules you espouse to yourself then.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Brilliant work. You take an email from a single person, totally misrepresent what he said, and use that to justify your claim that you are more concerned about the plight of others than Christians are. Are you sure your real name isn't CSS?
It's time for a new signature.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
You take an email from a single person
I normally do when I refer to s single person.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
totally misrepresent what he said
Er, you didnt read the 'get your hands off my stuff' bit?
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
use that to justify your claim that you are more concerned about the plight of others than Christians are.
If a shoe fits...
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
If someone is a competent parent, possibly. If they had to acquire a license to have a kid, I'd probably go with it as we're taking steps to ensure the family has a decent base already. But no way am I backing some of the idiots I grew up with getting a free house because they're to stupid to use a condom. Of course, none of this deals with the fact housing prices have become absolutely obscene and for some reason people expect them to stay there. I make about as much as my parents do, just out of school. I can't afford a house around here that doesn't have bullet holes in it(no, I'm not joking, I've counted a few). And I don't have the slightest clue why, none of the places are all that nice, there's no great location to it, it just seems to be unmitigated greed. Oh, and for those who are going to use the phrase 'market forces' I'll note that the only homes that have gone off the market near me in the last two years where those that people gave up selling. Market forces seem to indicate things are far to expensive, not that anyone cares when they list their place.
I didnt say free house.
Distind wrote:
none of this deals with the fact housing prices have become absolutely obscene
Agreed, thats because you totally misunderstood what I wrote, which is entirely about how prices ar so obscene that the average giy cant provide for his familly. Oh yes, and a house should be buyable on ONE wage, so the kids can be bought up properly by one parent, and not shoved into a creche at 6 months.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
Fuck me. You really think that people are that clever, including you? You think you are that responsible, including you? Hypocrit. Preaching pfrom a position of luck. (Yes, you were born into a wealthy country with a white skin and the genetic heredity that allows you to become an accountant. Take that away, be lower caste in India or somewhere, and then apply the same rules you espouse to yourself then.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
So you are saying that people across the world fuck and have kids because they don't know how not to? You are a patronising twat. Lucky to be born white? No, had generations of my family moved out of Africa and struggle in the tundra for 1000 generations. Born into a wealthy country? Hardly, one of the biggest debtors in the world. The Genetic Heredity that allows me to become an accountant? No, just hard work and education. Now, go back to skulking about your poverty and be thankful that you are alive, working and healthy.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Simon_Whale wrote:
Degree and IQ has nothing to do with
Ah, yes, so there is no correlation between intelligence and income just because you claim ot be super clever and yet you arent super rich. Has it ever occured to you that the rest of the world is different to you?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
yeah the world is different for me to than to you or christian or dave. BUT if i could make sure that my kids have a better start in life then i will do it using any legal means such as by other houses or investing in money etc. Yeah i split from my ex left her the house so that my kids could have a stable place to live. Now its my turn to make a good nest egg why not! if you were given an oppurtunity to do so wouldn't you?