concealed weapons
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I have to say the gun rights and the justifications for having or banning/controling them fascinate me. For every episode of concealed weapons I can find an accidental shooting. Case in point for the midwest and roughly the center of the US. http://www.omaha.com/article/20100429/NEWS01/704299847[^] Then the accidental shooting. http://www.ketv.com/news/23265294/detail.html[^] Now both are used as examples of defending gun rights and banning gun rights. I'm not much for statistics since those who create them tend to only find the ones that justifies their point of view and not look for the truth, but then again that's just my opinion.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
What does the second story have to do with concealed carry? The lowest numbers I have seen for 'defensive use' statistics in the US is 600k/year, most are 2M+/year. Show me the accidental shooting statistics that approach that.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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I have to say the gun rights and the justifications for having or banning/controling them fascinate me. For every episode of concealed weapons I can find an accidental shooting. Case in point for the midwest and roughly the center of the US. http://www.omaha.com/article/20100429/NEWS01/704299847[^] Then the accidental shooting. http://www.ketv.com/news/23265294/detail.html[^] Now both are used as examples of defending gun rights and banning gun rights. I'm not much for statistics since those who create them tend to only find the ones that justifies their point of view and not look for the truth, but then again that's just my opinion.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
I am a firm believer that everyone within reason (no criminal record) should be allowed a weapon to hunt or defend themselves. I am also a firm believer that military grade weaponry belongs in the military, not in the hands of people. There is no reason you would need to send 3 rounds downrange at anything in less than a second, have tracer rounds, or cut through body armor like butter. It may be weird to have this atitude, but a lot of former military folks do.
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I have to say the gun rights and the justifications for having or banning/controling them fascinate me. For every episode of concealed weapons I can find an accidental shooting. Case in point for the midwest and roughly the center of the US. http://www.omaha.com/article/20100429/NEWS01/704299847[^] Then the accidental shooting. http://www.ketv.com/news/23265294/detail.html[^] Now both are used as examples of defending gun rights and banning gun rights. I'm not much for statistics since those who create them tend to only find the ones that justifies their point of view and not look for the truth, but then again that's just my opinion.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
They fascinate you? :wtf: They should anger you, nobody has a right to disarm lawful citizens. People have life, property, family, and their freedom to protect. The police ain't there to come rescue you when someone breaks into your home at night, they aren't comic superheroes. It takes about 10 minutes for the police to arrive, sometimes longer because the police cars are somewhere far away and are stuck in traffic, and other police activities. Get real man, you are in a fantasy land if you think your society is safe without lawful citizen's guns.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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I am a firm believer that everyone within reason (no criminal record) should be allowed a weapon to hunt or defend themselves. I am also a firm believer that military grade weaponry belongs in the military, not in the hands of people. There is no reason you would need to send 3 rounds downrange at anything in less than a second, have tracer rounds, or cut through body armor like butter. It may be weird to have this atitude, but a lot of former military folks do.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
I am a firm believer that everyone within reason (no criminal record)
Tack on psychological issues, and a requirement to prove they're competent with the gun and I'm pretty much with you on ownership. I'm far less concerned about someone who knows what they're doing deciding they have a reason to shoot me, than someone who bought a gun because they think having it automatically makes them safe who then decides to shoot someone in my vicinity. Though I don't mind pointing out back when the second amendment was written it was feasible for a group of civilians with what amounted to hunting equipment to take on a trained army. I don't think my grandfather's deer rifle would be all to much help against modern military equipment, and anyone who thinks that means we should have access to those weapons can point me to the nearest tank dealership. I'd rather not screw around with small arms, go right up to the kind of thing that your typical militia nutbag isn't going to be able to afford or deal with.
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I am a firm believer that everyone within reason (no criminal record) should be allowed a weapon to hunt or defend themselves. I am also a firm believer that military grade weaponry belongs in the military, not in the hands of people. There is no reason you would need to send 3 rounds downrange at anything in less than a second, have tracer rounds, or cut through body armor like butter. It may be weird to have this atitude, but a lot of former military folks do.
You would think otherwise when you see foreign troops on the streets setting up checkpoints and roadblocks. Even if our military wasn't overseas and about to go to Iran and we weren't totally bankrupt, wouldn't you want to stand up and fight as your city and country is being destroyed by foreign troops?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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They fascinate you? :wtf: They should anger you, nobody has a right to disarm lawful citizens. People have life, property, family, and their freedom to protect. The police ain't there to come rescue you when someone breaks into your home at night, they aren't comic superheroes. It takes about 10 minutes for the police to arrive, sometimes longer because the police cars are somewhere far away and are stuck in traffic, and other police activities. Get real man, you are in a fantasy land if you think your society is safe without lawful citizen's guns.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Other parts of the world have far better police response times than we do, and do you really think that carrying a gun is going to protect you? No gun is going to stop someone who actually wants to kill you, if they have a clue you'll be dead before you're aware that they are there. All it may be good for is scaring off less severe crimes, and possibly turning them into justifiable homicide. It doesn't protect you, per your typical thoughts it protects your things while putting others at risk.
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You would think otherwise when you see foreign troops on the streets setting up checkpoints and roadblocks. Even if our military wasn't overseas and about to go to Iran and we weren't totally bankrupt, wouldn't you want to stand up and fight as your city and country is being destroyed by foreign troops?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
While you charge out into a hail of gun fire with your Alex Jones special edition AR-15, I'll be happily working away at various mechanisms to strike back that have nothing to do with exposing myself to direct military force. If your delusions occur, guns are not going to be the way to win.
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You would think otherwise when you see foreign troops on the streets setting up checkpoints and roadblocks. Even if our military wasn't overseas and about to go to Iran and we weren't totally bankrupt, wouldn't you want to stand up and fight as your city and country is being destroyed by foreign troops?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
And when the aliens attack I will be upset I don't have my particle cannon either. The alien scenario is only marginally more likely than the foreign army. There are plenty of National Guard and Army Reserve currently in the US. They can handle combat operations. If foreign troops were to attack, I would be able to defend my home with cunning, misdirection, and knowing when to wait and cause sabotage. More importantly I and pretty much every person ACTUALLY willing to fight would get to a guard unit and enlist to assist in combat operations while in uniform. You would too, right? When civilians start attacking back, the military starts considering anyone a target. That is a BAD thing.
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They fascinate you? :wtf: They should anger you, nobody has a right to disarm lawful citizens. People have life, property, family, and their freedom to protect. The police ain't there to come rescue you when someone breaks into your home at night, they aren't comic superheroes. It takes about 10 minutes for the police to arrive, sometimes longer because the police cars are somewhere far away and are stuck in traffic, and other police activities. Get real man, you are in a fantasy land if you think your society is safe without lawful citizen's guns.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Aren't police a socialist concept anyway? Who needs em? Oh wait, any society that wants to not devolve into anarchy.
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And when the aliens attack I will be upset I don't have my particle cannon either. The alien scenario is only marginally more likely than the foreign army. There are plenty of National Guard and Army Reserve currently in the US. They can handle combat operations. If foreign troops were to attack, I would be able to defend my home with cunning, misdirection, and knowing when to wait and cause sabotage. More importantly I and pretty much every person ACTUALLY willing to fight would get to a guard unit and enlist to assist in combat operations while in uniform. You would too, right? When civilians start attacking back, the military starts considering anyone a target. That is a BAD thing.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
If foreign troops were to attack, I would be able to defend my home with cunning, misdirection, and knowing when to wait and cause sabotage.
You crack me up. You would be shivering down in a basement waiting for just the right moment to beg for mercy from the troops and tell them you are loyal to China.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
If foreign troops were to attack, I would be able to defend my home with cunning, misdirection, and knowing when to wait and cause sabotage.
You crack me up. You would be shivering down in a basement waiting for just the right moment to beg for mercy from the troops and tell them you are loyal to China.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
HAHAHAHAHA Hey stupid, I enlisted at 17. How about you? Considering I am the one here that has a track record of being in the military during a time of war and you don't, throwing stones in your glass house is kinda stupid. I may be old and out of shape, but I could easily take a target out with an M-16A3 at a few hundred yards. How about you coward? Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader? And, more importantly, would you want a particle beam, or ballistic weapon against the aliens? I hear they often overlook low tech attacks, like stormtroopers and ewok sticks...
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What does the second story have to do with concealed carry? The lowest numbers I have seen for 'defensive use' statistics in the US is 600k/year, most are 2M+/year. Show me the accidental shooting statistics that approach that.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
On numerous occasions I've had people justify concealed weapons or the right to have guns with crime control. Never have I heard them address issues of accidental shootings other than to dismiss them without much reason. This is only based on conversations I've had with both gun control people and pro gun people. This isn't a statistical discussion, but an observation.
RichardM1 wrote:
Show me the accidental shooting statistics that approach that.
I don't need to because that's not what the discussion is about. Opposing views is what I'm getting at and how people clash by them.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
modified on Thursday, April 29, 2010 12:16 PM
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HAHAHAHAHA Hey stupid, I enlisted at 17. How about you? Considering I am the one here that has a track record of being in the military during a time of war and you don't, throwing stones in your glass house is kinda stupid. I may be old and out of shape, but I could easily take a target out with an M-16A3 at a few hundred yards. How about you coward? Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader? And, more importantly, would you want a particle beam, or ballistic weapon against the aliens? I hear they often overlook low tech attacks, like stormtroopers and ewok sticks...
ragnaroknrol wrote:
Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader?
The thing is though, they will be used against the American people. They will be making sure everybody goes through the checkpoints, obeys curfew, and military dictatorship. You would be forced to work for crumbs and you would go to prison for saying anything unapproved.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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I have to say the gun rights and the justifications for having or banning/controling them fascinate me. For every episode of concealed weapons I can find an accidental shooting. Case in point for the midwest and roughly the center of the US. http://www.omaha.com/article/20100429/NEWS01/704299847[^] Then the accidental shooting. http://www.ketv.com/news/23265294/detail.html[^] Now both are used as examples of defending gun rights and banning gun rights. I'm not much for statistics since those who create them tend to only find the ones that justifies their point of view and not look for the truth, but then again that's just my opinion.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
wolfbinary wrote:
accidental shooting.
Anyone dumb enough to shoot themselves cleaning a gun isn't fit to own one. This type of idiot gives even responsible owners a bad name. Step one each time is to unload the gun. Then double check the gun is unloaded. The other story is just crappy opinion piece. "Is Harry McCullough III a community hero or a reckless cowboy?" I like actual news in my newspapers, not random questions.
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They fascinate you? :wtf: They should anger you, nobody has a right to disarm lawful citizens. People have life, property, family, and their freedom to protect. The police ain't there to come rescue you when someone breaks into your home at night, they aren't comic superheroes. It takes about 10 minutes for the police to arrive, sometimes longer because the police cars are somewhere far away and are stuck in traffic, and other police activities. Get real man, you are in a fantasy land if you think your society is safe without lawful citizen's guns.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
They fascinate me much like your drivel and linking to websites of a parallel universe. edit Once again you put words in someone's mouth. The post is about points of view not you're political beliefs or mine even. Diametrically opposing points of view are what fascinate me about this issue or really any issue for that matter. /edit
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
modified on Thursday, April 29, 2010 12:12 PM
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader?
The thing is though, they will be used against the American people. They will be making sure everybody goes through the checkpoints, obeys curfew, and military dictatorship. You would be forced to work for crumbs and you would go to prison for saying anything unapproved.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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HAHAHAHAHA Hey stupid, I enlisted at 17. How about you? Considering I am the one here that has a track record of being in the military during a time of war and you don't, throwing stones in your glass house is kinda stupid. I may be old and out of shape, but I could easily take a target out with an M-16A3 at a few hundred yards. How about you coward? Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader? And, more importantly, would you want a particle beam, or ballistic weapon against the aliens? I hear they often overlook low tech attacks, like stormtroopers and ewok sticks...
remember if arguement.point <> understood then insult poster else change the subject while trying to keep on track
Thanks for taking the time, now go away and grow up and return in a newer, more polite and less shouty and ignorant form. - Dalek Dave
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HAHAHAHAHA Hey stupid, I enlisted at 17. How about you? Considering I am the one here that has a track record of being in the military during a time of war and you don't, throwing stones in your glass house is kinda stupid. I may be old and out of shape, but I could easily take a target out with an M-16A3 at a few hundred yards. How about you coward? Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader? And, more importantly, would you want a particle beam, or ballistic weapon against the aliens? I hear they often overlook low tech attacks, like stormtroopers and ewok sticks...
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Aren't police a socialist concept anyway? Who needs em? Oh wait, any society that wants to not devolve into anarchy.
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
Would you be showing up and requesting to join the military to defend your country from a foreign invader?
The thing is though, they will be used against the American people. They will be making sure everybody goes through the checkpoints, obeys curfew, and military dictatorship. You would be forced to work for crumbs and you would go to prison for saying anything unapproved.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Wait, so the best defense against a foreign army on our soil is a bunch of armed idiots hoping to hurt them with no training and not, you know, the military? You would actually let a foreign country occupy America because somehow the American military is worse in your mind?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They will be making sure everybody goes through the checkpoints
Checkpoints that might be there to give information and check to see if foreign troops coming are probably a good idea when invaded. They can offer resistance and inform military command of attacks as they happen.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
obeys curfew
Curfew keeps people out of combat zones during fighting and makes it easier to target invading forces.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
and military dictatorship.
During an invasion, the military would have to be in charge. Sorry, civilian governments would not have the logistics or expertise to comman military assets. The CiC is a civilian anyway, so it isn't so much a dictatorship as an electoral republic in charge.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You would be forced to work for crumbs and you would go to prison for saying anything unapproved.
AH!!! here's your real excuse. You would have to make the same amount of money as you do now and couldn't spout nonsense. Let me put you at ease. I was in the military. The pay may seem low, but it isn't. You get 3 meals a day, a place to live and full health care. That by itself is a ton of money. Add the pay and you are actually coming out being paid fairly well. You can say quite a bit without being put in jail. They start the actual paperwork with an Article 15, which is essentially a fine. Keep it up and they increase the fine or go with harsher stuff. Before they do that, you usually get a crap assignment. KP duty for a few weekends, etc. The military is actually pretty forgiving of the things people say, as long as you are within reason. It's made of people that want to defend their loved ones mostly. They aren't going to fly off the handle because someone said that Obama sucks. They'll ask you not to say it publically while in uniform. That's not unreasonable. Either way, you are admitting that if your country was attacked, you would do nothing. Grats on being a selfish little shit.