Israeli politics
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It is an indication of how weirdly oblique Israeli politics can be that the Labour party could only raise the profoundly moral issue of the settlements by staging a row about what they are costing the government. Idiots. It's a good article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,823705,00.html[^] Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. At the end of the day, they are different sides the same family - and no feud is worse than a family feud. Only humans can hate another group of the same species so much that that hate causes self destruction.
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. At the end of the day, they are different sides the same family - and no feud is worse than a family feud. Only humans can hate another group of the same species so much that that hate causes self destruction.
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
It's incomprehensible to me. I've read a lot about the history of the people, but I am completely unable to form a "living connection" with the issues over which they are killing each other. How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see that it would be more beneficial if peace were achieved? Unfortunately, about the only real understanding that I've ever achieved is that these people are driven by their ideology and their emotions, and not by reason (other than what they call "reason" in order to justify their cause). And that their culture so instills hatred that they're not even conscious of it. And worse, the world stands by doing nothing, other than supplying, on the one hand, each side with weapons and financial aid, and on the other hand, the illusion of "peace talks". What a waste of lives, resources, and money. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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It's incomprehensible to me. I've read a lot about the history of the people, but I am completely unable to form a "living connection" with the issues over which they are killing each other. How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see that it would be more beneficial if peace were achieved? Unfortunately, about the only real understanding that I've ever achieved is that these people are driven by their ideology and their emotions, and not by reason (other than what they call "reason" in order to justify their cause). And that their culture so instills hatred that they're not even conscious of it. And worse, the world stands by doing nothing, other than supplying, on the one hand, each side with weapons and financial aid, and on the other hand, the illusion of "peace talks". What a waste of lives, resources, and money. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see there is no god? How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see capital punishment is inhumane? How can reasonable, intelligent adults [insert what you like here]? People believe what they believe, and it is very hard to change that.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea" - Martin Marvinski
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How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see there is no god? How can reasonable, intelligent adults not see capital punishment is inhumane? How can reasonable, intelligent adults [insert what you like here]? People believe what they believe, and it is very hard to change that.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea" - Martin Marvinski
I think there's a difference in having an ideology that results in the both sides killing each other's parents, brothers and sisters, children, friends, etc., all in the name of killing one's enemies. There's a difference between what I believe in and how I acts on those beliefs, and the justification I give for my actions. Do you really think I'm justified (regardless of whether it's right or wrong) to murder someone because "God told me to?" Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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I think there's a difference in having an ideology that results in the both sides killing each other's parents, brothers and sisters, children, friends, etc., all in the name of killing one's enemies. There's a difference between what I believe in and how I acts on those beliefs, and the justification I give for my actions. Do you really think I'm justified (regardless of whether it's right or wrong) to murder someone because "God told me to?" Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
It doesn't matter what I believe though - that is the point. It only matters what *you* believe. If you choose to act on your beliefs then that is your choice and it is your task to justify them, no one elses. That's why we have politicans. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea" - Martin Marvinski
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It doesn't matter what I believe though - that is the point. It only matters what *you* believe. If you choose to act on your beliefs then that is your choice and it is your task to justify them, no one elses. That's why we have politicans. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea" - Martin Marvinski
That's why we have politicans. And lawyers! It doesn't matter what I believe though But it should matter. Otherwise, I just live in my own little world: stupid, ignorant, and uneducated. (not that I don't try!) I want to know your beliefs so that I can develop a better understanding of my own. Obviously, a lot of people don't have this as one of their life's modus operandi. How can I really understand something if I don't put some effort into understanding the opposing views? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. At the end of the day, they are different sides the same family - and no feud is worse than a family feud. Only humans can hate another group of the same species so much that that hate causes self destruction.
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
Megan Forbes wrote: It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. Very, very true. It just boggles my mind that anybody really cares what happened 4000 years ago... or 400 years ago... or even 100 years ago. I've never heard of a Christian that automatically hates people who live in Rome because the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago. The people of Rome are no more responsible for their ancestor's actions than I am as a white American for slavery in the US. Somehow the folks on all sides of this conflict need to be reminded that they should judge each other by the current actions of the current generations. Anything else is just foolish. Disclaimer: My comment about the Christian was only an example, it was not meant as a comparison between Jews or Muslims and Christians. I don't intend to imply that Christains are any better than Jews or Muslims because they don't hold 2000 year old grudges, nothing could be further from the truth. It was only a specific example to show the futility of the roots of the middle east conflict.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
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Megan Forbes wrote: It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. Very, very true. It just boggles my mind that anybody really cares what happened 4000 years ago... or 400 years ago... or even 100 years ago. I've never heard of a Christian that automatically hates people who live in Rome because the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago. The people of Rome are no more responsible for their ancestor's actions than I am as a white American for slavery in the US. Somehow the folks on all sides of this conflict need to be reminded that they should judge each other by the current actions of the current generations. Anything else is just foolish. Disclaimer: My comment about the Christian was only an example, it was not meant as a comparison between Jews or Muslims and Christians. I don't intend to imply that Christains are any better than Jews or Muslims because they don't hold 2000 year old grudges, nothing could be further from the truth. It was only a specific example to show the futility of the roots of the middle east conflict.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
when you have no present and see no future, maybe the past is the best you can do. (don't know if it applies in this case or if it's even true. i just wanted to type it) -c
“If it turns out that I’m actually the one who did it, then looking for the real killers would be a big old waste of time.” -- OJ Simpson
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when you have no present and see no future, maybe the past is the best you can do. (don't know if it applies in this case or if it's even true. i just wanted to type it) -c
“If it turns out that I’m actually the one who did it, then looking for the real killers would be a big old waste of time.” -- OJ Simpson
Chris Losinger wrote: when you have no present and see no future, maybe the past is the best you can do. If this were the case, I would say their obsession with the past is getting in the way of seeing their future. IMO this concept (to a lesser degree) is being mirrored in many black communities in the US. Too often the obsession with past wrongs that occured generations ago is hindering their ability to move forward with their own individual futures.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
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when you have no present and see no future, maybe the past is the best you can do. (don't know if it applies in this case or if it's even true. i just wanted to type it) -c
“If it turns out that I’m actually the one who did it, then looking for the real killers would be a big old waste of time.” -- OJ Simpson
Tragic isn't it? :(
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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Megan Forbes wrote: It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. Very, very true. It just boggles my mind that anybody really cares what happened 4000 years ago... or 400 years ago... or even 100 years ago. I've never heard of a Christian that automatically hates people who live in Rome because the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago. The people of Rome are no more responsible for their ancestor's actions than I am as a white American for slavery in the US. Somehow the folks on all sides of this conflict need to be reminded that they should judge each other by the current actions of the current generations. Anything else is just foolish. Disclaimer: My comment about the Christian was only an example, it was not meant as a comparison between Jews or Muslims and Christians. I don't intend to imply that Christains are any better than Jews or Muslims because they don't hold 2000 year old grudges, nothing could be further from the truth. It was only a specific example to show the futility of the roots of the middle east conflict.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: I've never heard of a Christian that automatically hates people who live in Rome because the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago. The people of Rome are no more responsible for their ancestor's actions than I am as a white American for slavery in the US. That's a brilliant point! :-D
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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Megan Forbes wrote: It is extremely difficult to look at todays Isreali / Palestinian politics and have any understanding of the truth, which goes back 4000 years. Our democracies are relatively new, and so it seems easy to change things by changing governments. These, however, are ancient populations, with memories of things (on both sides) which we cannot comprehend. Very, very true. It just boggles my mind that anybody really cares what happened 4000 years ago... or 400 years ago... or even 100 years ago. I've never heard of a Christian that automatically hates people who live in Rome because the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago. The people of Rome are no more responsible for their ancestor's actions than I am as a white American for slavery in the US. Somehow the folks on all sides of this conflict need to be reminded that they should judge each other by the current actions of the current generations. Anything else is just foolish. Disclaimer: My comment about the Christian was only an example, it was not meant as a comparison between Jews or Muslims and Christians. I don't intend to imply that Christains are any better than Jews or Muslims because they don't hold 2000 year old grudges, nothing could be further from the truth. It was only a specific example to show the futility of the roots of the middle east conflict.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: the Romans fed Christians to the lions 2000 years ago Just to clarify: It wasn't just Christians that ended up being lion food. Pretty much anything that stood up against the empire became lion food. But I get your overall point. :) Mike Mullikin wrote: It just boggles my mind that anybody really cares what happened 4000 years ago... or 400 years ago... It's a matter of religion. Israel claims that it's theirs, Zion, because God gave it to them. The Palestinians have a bunch of holy places scattered all over Israel. Thus both sides have god given rights to be there. This is why I'm an atheist. -- Master, I'm so glad to feel your presence. But you don't seem to share my impatience. I relied upon you to break the silence. I cannot understand your reluctance. Master, I feel so warm and I'm so happy, oh master. Give me some more of the warm little beasts I'm so fond of.