Dutch doctors organization wants to ban circumsicion
-
Sense at last! Original source here: http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2256789/artsen-willen-af-van-besnijdenis-jongens.html[^] You can use a fancy translator or trust my quick translation (or you can speak Dutch, but really, who does that..) Pardon me for my rather literal translation, I suck at translating. Between brackets is clarification/notes about the translation. Circumcision without medical reason goes against the right for bodily integrity, according to KNMG. The doctors organization [KNMG] calls on doctors to tell ["actively" and "strongly" don't really apply to the verb "to tell"] parents who want to have the operation done on their son about the lack of medical advantages and the risk of complication. According to KNMG chairman Arie Nieuwenhuijzen Kruseman, the rule is: don't cut in healthy children. The cause for this [point of view - but points of view don't have a cause, do they?] is the increasing attention for the protection of child rights, according to KNMG. English article about this here[^] Damn right. If my parents had decided that I should be circumcised, I would totally sue them now. And don't give me shit about "a parent's consent is consent" because it clearly isn't. My body. I get to decide. Luckily for them (my parents) they didn't make such silly mistakes. Discuss.
From an article today about female circumsicion The Royal Australian New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RANZCOG) says the practice of "ritual nicks" could meet the cultural needs of some women and potentially save some people from drastic surgery.[^] Unbelievable. Our son was not circumcision even though his mother's Jewish.
-
Sense at last! Original source here: http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2256789/artsen-willen-af-van-besnijdenis-jongens.html[^] You can use a fancy translator or trust my quick translation (or you can speak Dutch, but really, who does that..) Pardon me for my rather literal translation, I suck at translating. Between brackets is clarification/notes about the translation. Circumcision without medical reason goes against the right for bodily integrity, according to KNMG. The doctors organization [KNMG] calls on doctors to tell ["actively" and "strongly" don't really apply to the verb "to tell"] parents who want to have the operation done on their son about the lack of medical advantages and the risk of complication. According to KNMG chairman Arie Nieuwenhuijzen Kruseman, the rule is: don't cut in healthy children. The cause for this [point of view - but points of view don't have a cause, do they?] is the increasing attention for the protection of child rights, according to KNMG. English article about this here[^] Damn right. If my parents had decided that I should be circumcised, I would totally sue them now. And don't give me shit about "a parent's consent is consent" because it clearly isn't. My body. I get to decide. Luckily for them (my parents) they didn't make such silly mistakes. Discuss.
Big fuss over nothing. I have no drawbacks in life and have never once lamented the loss of a useless piece of skin that was removed when I was 8 days old. I'm certainly not angry with my parents: it was a long time ago and they did what they thought was right, as did I with both my sons. Besides, I can't really miss what I never had and, as far as I can tell, the loss has made no difference to my life. The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
-
Big fuss over nothing. I have no drawbacks in life and have never once lamented the loss of a useless piece of skin that was removed when I was 8 days old. I'm certainly not angry with my parents: it was a long time ago and they did what they thought was right, as did I with both my sons. Besides, I can't really miss what I never had and, as far as I can tell, the loss has made no difference to my life. The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
If Evolution thought it useless it would have disappeared. I feel sorry for your childhood genital mutilation, and would suggest that had you waited until such time as you were wise enough to make a decision about elective surgury you would probably not have had the operation. Still, some people think that hacking their children allows them into the imaginary world of Narnia heaven.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
-
Sense at last! Original source here: http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2256789/artsen-willen-af-van-besnijdenis-jongens.html[^] You can use a fancy translator or trust my quick translation (or you can speak Dutch, but really, who does that..) Pardon me for my rather literal translation, I suck at translating. Between brackets is clarification/notes about the translation. Circumcision without medical reason goes against the right for bodily integrity, according to KNMG. The doctors organization [KNMG] calls on doctors to tell ["actively" and "strongly" don't really apply to the verb "to tell"] parents who want to have the operation done on their son about the lack of medical advantages and the risk of complication. According to KNMG chairman Arie Nieuwenhuijzen Kruseman, the rule is: don't cut in healthy children. The cause for this [point of view - but points of view don't have a cause, do they?] is the increasing attention for the protection of child rights, according to KNMG. English article about this here[^] Damn right. If my parents had decided that I should be circumcised, I would totally sue them now. And don't give me shit about "a parent's consent is consent" because it clearly isn't. My body. I get to decide. Luckily for them (my parents) they didn't make such silly mistakes. Discuss.
-
From an article today about female circumsicion The Royal Australian New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RANZCOG) says the practice of "ritual nicks" could meet the cultural needs of some women and potentially save some people from drastic surgery.[^] Unbelievable. Our son was not circumcision even though his mother's Jewish.
-
Remember that 'female circumcision' often involves removal of the clitoris. Think of it as amputating the head of the penis.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Trollslayer wrote:
Remember that 'female circumcision' often involves removal of the clitoris. Think of it as amputating the head of the penis.
I know what it is. When I said it's unbelievable I meant the fact that a medical body would promote it in any way.
-
Remember that 'female circumcision' often involves removal of the clitoris. Think of it as amputating the head of the penis.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
-
Also circumcisions are performed by people without medical training and when it goes wrong families are expected to live with the damage. :mad:
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
"I'm qualified to cut off bits from a child, I read a book written by bronze age shepherds"
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
-
If Evolution thought it useless it would have disappeared. I feel sorry for your childhood genital mutilation, and would suggest that had you waited until such time as you were wise enough to make a decision about elective surgury you would probably not have had the operation. Still, some people think that hacking their children allows them into the imaginary world of Narnia heaven.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
If Evolution thought it useless it would have disappeared.
Bit like the appendix, perhaps? (Edit: just realised what I said - ho-hum).
Dalek Dave wrote:
I feel sorry for your childhood genital mutilation
Please don't: I'm more than happy with it and it has served me well.
Dalek Dave wrote:
would suggest that had you waited until such time as you were wise enough to make a decision about elective surgury you would probably not have had the operation.
We'll never know although I will say that I'm practically OCD clean and may have considered it.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Still, some people think that hacking their children allows them into the imaginary world of Narnia heaven.
Partly, I must admit, to please and placate the family but mostly because I believe it to be cleaner and less disease prone than having a flapping great chunk of a smegma maker slopping around in my pants... Circumcision, in the Jewish religion, has less to do with religion than with cleanliness. A circumcision is only performed where the child is over 8 days old and in good health and the man who does it is well trained. (I hope :-)) I personally have never known anyone cut in this way where it has gone wrong.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
-
Dalek Dave wrote:
If Evolution thought it useless it would have disappeared.
Bit like the appendix, perhaps? (Edit: just realised what I said - ho-hum).
Dalek Dave wrote:
I feel sorry for your childhood genital mutilation
Please don't: I'm more than happy with it and it has served me well.
Dalek Dave wrote:
would suggest that had you waited until such time as you were wise enough to make a decision about elective surgury you would probably not have had the operation.
We'll never know although I will say that I'm practically OCD clean and may have considered it.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Still, some people think that hacking their children allows them into the imaginary world of Narnia heaven.
Partly, I must admit, to please and placate the family but mostly because I believe it to be cleaner and less disease prone than having a flapping great chunk of a smegma maker slopping around in my pants... Circumcision, in the Jewish religion, has less to do with religion than with cleanliness. A circumcision is only performed where the child is over 8 days old and in good health and the man who does it is well trained. (I hope :-)) I personally have never known anyone cut in this way where it has gone wrong.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
Bit like the appendix, perhaps? (Edit: just realised what I said - ho-hum).
Still there and still useful.
digital man wrote:
Please don't: I'm more than happy with it and it has served me well.
Good for you.
digital man wrote:
We'll never know although I will say that I'm practically OCD clean and may have considered it.
Perhaps, we will never know for sure.
digital man wrote:
Partly, I must admit, to please and placate the family but mostly because I believe it to be cleaner and less disease prone than having a flapping great chunk of a smegma maker slopping around in my pants...
Personally I find washing it from time to time helps.
digital man wrote:
I personally have never known anyone cut in this way where it has gone wrong.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
-
TMI, but I'm uncloaked, and it has had no negative effect on my use, enjoyment or abuse. If it is done as a child, the nervous system probably has not fully populated the connections. It is plastic enough to make good. Did your parents feed you well, did they teach you good or bad habits? Spank you? I'm sure you can come up with some other good reason to sue them.:~
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
and it has had no negative effect on my use, enjoyment or abuse.
How on earth would you know ?
RichardM1 wrote:
If it is done as a child, the nervous system probably has not fully populated the connections.
Bollocks. Again, how would you know ? Why do the babies cry then ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Big fuss over nothing. I have no drawbacks in life and have never once lamented the loss of a useless piece of skin that was removed when I was 8 days old. I'm certainly not angry with my parents: it was a long time ago and they did what they thought was right, as did I with both my sons. Besides, I can't really miss what I never had and, as far as I can tell, the loss has made no difference to my life. The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
Well, it's true that people who remain intact require a degree of personal hygiene that appears to escape those who have been mutilated.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Remember that 'female circumcision' often involves removal of the clitoris. Think of it as amputating the head of the penis.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Why would a woman need one of those ? If it's so important, why is it so hard to find ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Big fuss over nothing. I have no drawbacks in life and have never once lamented the loss of a useless piece of skin that was removed when I was 8 days old. I'm certainly not angry with my parents: it was a long time ago and they did what they thought was right, as did I with both my sons. Besides, I can't really miss what I never had and, as far as I can tell, the loss has made no difference to my life. The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
-
digital man wrote:
Bit like the appendix, perhaps? (Edit: just realised what I said - ho-hum).
Still there and still useful.
digital man wrote:
Please don't: I'm more than happy with it and it has served me well.
Good for you.
digital man wrote:
We'll never know although I will say that I'm practically OCD clean and may have considered it.
Perhaps, we will never know for sure.
digital man wrote:
Partly, I must admit, to please and placate the family but mostly because I believe it to be cleaner and less disease prone than having a flapping great chunk of a smegma maker slopping around in my pants...
Personally I find washing it from time to time helps.
digital man wrote:
I personally have never known anyone cut in this way where it has gone wrong.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
Personally I find washing it from time to time helps.
Time to time??? What, once a week not good enough for you? I have heard of that case before: very sad but by no means the norm. I see this is one of those issues that has no clear-cut resolution - I don't see it as all that bad (and I would bet that none of my family, friends or contemporaries would either) but you, and others, plainly do. When my sons have children I will not put any pressure on them to follow what I did but I suspect they will, anyway and not because of nonsensical religious beliefs but for tradition and the perception that it is healthier and cleaner.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
-
digital man wrote:
The thought of having a foreskin makes me cringe - useless, cheese infested piss holder. I'm glad I don't have one.
Well, it's true that people who remain intact require a degree of personal hygiene that appears to escape those who have been mutilated.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, it's true that people who remain intact require a degree of personal hygiene that appears to escape those who have been mutilated.
Touche! But not, of course, the case. Anyone can be dirty regardless of a foreskin or not - it is just a lot easier to keep a smooth, unfettered penis clean. :-)
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
-
Why would a woman need one of those ? If it's so important, why is it so hard to find ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
It is not hard to find, simply add alcohol and wait! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
-
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, it's true that people who remain intact require a degree of personal hygiene that appears to escape those who have been mutilated.
Touche! But not, of course, the case. Anyone can be dirty regardless of a foreskin or not - it is just a lot easier to keep a smooth, unfettered penis clean. :-)
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
Yes, my point would be that we intact males are perhaps forced to learn levels of hygiene that guys who are not complete do not. But, it's not really a big deal. Washing it in the shower was how I learned my number one teenage past time, as I recall.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
It is not hard to find, simply add alcohol and wait! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
ROTFL !!! I'll try that tonight. And have a black eye tomorrow. Seriously though, I've heard guys tell jokes about how hard a clitoris is to find, and my thought has been 'your poor wife'....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.