Voting rights
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An option that Hans (and I'm sure others - forgive my poor memory) has suggested is a massive simplification of the current system. Luc Pattyn (and, again, others) are extremely opposed, but it's an idea that can at least stir debate. Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing. To provide a mechanism for reporting abusive articles, messages, answers - whatever - we provide a "Report this" link. When a certain number of reports are reached the item gets manually investigated. It's just an idea. Debate away.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing.
I've always seconded this idea. :thumbsup: A variation would be two buttons: (1) Vote-Up button (2) Mark as abuse button - this should not count as a 1-vote and should be used purely to get a post auto-removed.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Code Project Forums : New Posts Monitor This application monitors for new posts in the Code Project forums.
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Disagree (sorry ;P) It's not because you vote it a 1 that you want it reported. The message / answer / article / ... can be of little value but still within the boundaries of the site's rule's. Then one could vote down. It would solve the issue of the uni-voters but I think it would just render the whole voting useless, so you might as well just ditch it and allow no voting for anyone. I think the voting as we have it now isn't all that bad, it just needs some fine tuning.
Of course, you could choose not to vote for the article. Effectively, it's a tri-state system; like it - give it a thumbs up; don't like it - don't vote; think it's offensive - report it.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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An option that Hans (and I'm sure others - forgive my poor memory) has suggested is a massive simplification of the current system. Luc Pattyn (and, again, others) are extremely opposed, but it's an idea that can at least stir debate. Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing. To provide a mechanism for reporting abusive articles, messages, answers - whatever - we provide a "Report this" link. When a certain number of reports are reached the item gets manually investigated. It's just an idea. Debate away.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
As you know, I was originally opposed to this idea - I seem to remember getting into a fairly heated debate with Hans over it, but now I like it.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Chris Maunder wrote:
The issue isn't sock puppets
Really? At one point the whole front page of the Lounge was grey and the majority of these posts had three 1-votes. Are you saying that three individual members took it upon themselves to carpet bomb the lounge at the exact same time? The thread in question was fat_boys GW one but even the replys from other members had the multiple one votes.
PompeyBoy3 wrote:
Really? At one point the whole front page of the Lounge was grey and the majority of these posts had three 1-votes. Are you saying that three individual members took it upon themselves to carpet bomb the lounge at the exact same time? The thread in question was fat_boys GW one but even the replys from other members had the multiple one votes.
You cannot cast multiple votes, even from different accounts, from the same IP address. While it's technically possible for someone to simultaneously maintain 3 IP addresses and vote from all 3 of them using multiple accounts, it's far far more likely that the multiple votes came from different members (and based on what Chris said, none of them are newbies, and may in fact be Gold or Silver status members here).
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Code Project Forums : New Posts Monitor This application monitors for new posts in the Code Project forums.
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PompeyBoy3 wrote:
Really? At one point the whole front page of the Lounge was grey and the majority of these posts had three 1-votes. Are you saying that three individual members took it upon themselves to carpet bomb the lounge at the exact same time? The thread in question was fat_boys GW one but even the replys from other members had the multiple one votes.
You cannot cast multiple votes, even from different accounts, from the same IP address. While it's technically possible for someone to simultaneously maintain 3 IP addresses and vote from all 3 of them using multiple accounts, it's far far more likely that the multiple votes came from different members (and based on what Chris said, none of them are newbies, and may in fact be Gold or Silver status members here).
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Code Project Forums : New Posts Monitor This application monitors for new posts in the Code Project forums.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
You cannot cast multiple votes, even from different accounts, from the same IP address
Learnt my something new for today. Which suggests this wasn't abuse but more people showing their disproval of the GW subject matter then. If it was abuse then I would love Chris to name and shame them on this occasion, although I appreciate why this will never happen.
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An option that Hans (and I'm sure others - forgive my poor memory) has suggested is a massive simplification of the current system. Luc Pattyn (and, again, others) are extremely opposed, but it's an idea that can at least stir debate. Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing. To provide a mechanism for reporting abusive articles, messages, answers - whatever - we provide a "Report this" link. When a certain number of reports are reached the item gets manually investigated. It's just an idea. Debate away.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing.
I think this is an awesome idea for the Lounge. IMHO, I think voting in the Lounge/BackRoom/Soapbox is absolutely pointless...it serves no purpose whatsoever other than pissing people off or filling their already inflated egos. ** Flame away **
modified on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:40 AM
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I know I should bunch these all into 1 message but this morning is a write off already so I've been diving into things to see what's been happening and I hate to say it, but your suggestions would have had zero impact on what happened overnight. As is often the case, the person down-voting would have sailed through your rep checks easily and been unencumbered in their boredom. I am thinking about the snake idea, though (see the-poster-formerly-known-as-Mario's idea)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
As is often the case, the person down-voting would have sailed through your rep checks easily and been unencumbered in their boredom.
I can't say I'm overly surprised, although I am disappointed. I've seen enough inexplicable univotes only go to 2.3(?) after I countervoted that I knew at least some of the stupid was by long term users...
Chris Maunder wrote:
I am thinking about the snake idea, though (see the-poster-formerly-known-as-Mario's idea)
who?
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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I disagree. Just pretending that a jerk isn't being a jerk works as well online as it does in real life. How the proprietors handle jerks is the difference between the nice bar you take your friends to when they come to visit and the nuisance that get shut down because they're always having the police show up. I hate to say it, but the lack of any consequences for abusers is pushing the lounge towards the latter category. The only thing that setting the current limits on voting rates has done is to make peer moderation nearly impossible because when a troll goes crazy only the people who hit refresh every 10 minutes can come close to casting abuse votes on all its posts. The univoting trolls meanwhile are free to just switch between thier various sock puppets and can cast abusive votes on everything.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Totally agree. I wondered for a while now why the CP admins can't just target the occasional black sheep.
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An option that Hans (and I'm sure others - forgive my poor memory) has suggested is a massive simplification of the current system. Luc Pattyn (and, again, others) are extremely opposed, but it's an idea that can at least stir debate. Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing. To provide a mechanism for reporting abusive articles, messages, answers - whatever - we provide a "Report this" link. When a certain number of reports are reached the item gets manually investigated. It's just an idea. Debate away.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
How about this suggestion: Leave the voting as it is but instead of coloring the subject gray / blue / red why not just put a small icon next to the subject (left or right) indicating the vote status (thumbs down / nothing / thumbs up) Reason: I think the main incentive there uni-voters have is the "satisfaction" of coloring the whole forum grey. And the main annoyance the other people have is the coloring of the whole forum gray. Like this the forum color stays consistent and we still can see if a post is downvoted or upvoted. Don't know if it's any good but was just a thought I had on the way home :)
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Chris Maunder wrote:
As is often the case, the person down-voting would have sailed through your rep checks easily and been unencumbered in their boredom.
I can't say I'm overly surprised, although I am disappointed. I've seen enough inexplicable univotes only go to 2.3(?) after I countervoted that I knew at least some of the stupid was by long term users...
Chris Maunder wrote:
I am thinking about the snake idea, though (see the-poster-formerly-known-as-Mario's idea)
who?
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
I can't say I'm overly surprised, although I am disappointed.
Yeah same here. It's been obvious for a while now that most of the crazy-1-voting sprees have been by Gold or higher level members.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Code Project Forums : New Posts Monitor This application monitors for new posts in the Code Project forums.
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Dan Neely wrote:
I can't say I'm overly surprised, although I am disappointed.
Yeah same here. It's been obvious for a while now that most of the crazy-1-voting sprees have been by Gold or higher level members.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Code Project Forums : New Posts Monitor This application monitors for new posts in the Code Project forums.
Hmm. Burn the witch I say.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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I know I should bunch these all into 1 message but this morning is a write off already so I've been diving into things to see what's been happening and I hate to say it, but your suggestions would have had zero impact on what happened overnight. As is often the case, the person down-voting would have sailed through your rep checks easily and been unencumbered in their boredom. I am thinking about the snake idea, though (see the-poster-formerly-known-as-Mario's idea)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Hm... since many are so concious about their CP reputation, would it help to show voting statistics on the members profile pages (e.g. average of given votes for total/year/week)? Call it karma indicator. :)
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Totally agree. I wondered for a while now why the CP admins can't just target the occasional black sheep.
Define "target". If you mean "remove accounts", "remove spurious votes", or "have a heart to heart with a long standing member who has an issue and resolve it sensibly", or any combination thereof, then I'd say we're covered.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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How about this suggestion: Leave the voting as it is but instead of coloring the subject gray / blue / red why not just put a small icon next to the subject (left or right) indicating the vote status (thumbs down / nothing / thumbs up) Reason: I think the main incentive there uni-voters have is the "satisfaction" of coloring the whole forum grey. And the main annoyance the other people have is the coloring of the whole forum gray. Like this the forum color stays consistent and we still can see if a post is downvoted or upvoted. Don't know if it's any good but was just a thought I had on the way home :)
That defeats the purpose of the voting system. It's meant to be obvious as to which messages are good and which are to be ignored.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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I think a variant of SO's implementation would help here. I know you don't want new users to be unable to vote so setting the minimum threshhold at 100 isn't an option. But if you allowed rep to go negative and disabling voting rights at say -10 or so, a 1 point reduction in rep for down voting would still allow new users to cast votes but would make running sock puppets much more inconvenient since the abusers would have to keep creating new ones every few minutes.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
So, as you downvote you lose rep, and negative rep is the limit to allow you to vote? Interesting.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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As you know, I was originally opposed to this idea - I seem to remember getting into a fairly heated debate with Hans over it, but now I like it.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
I'm still debating internally with myself. It's getting a little heated. What I dislike about this is there's no way to push down the awful but not-quite-offensive stuff. Although the other argument is: make it easier to vote (or "Like") and more people will do it. If you get close to a 100% voting rate on articles (ie everything has at least a vote) then it should be safe to assume the truly awful will have no votes, and the mildly awful low votes, and the creme de la creme a bucket load.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Instead of having a 1-5 voting, we have a simple +1. Nothing else. You give a thumbs-up or nothing.
I think this is an awesome idea for the Lounge. IMHO, I think voting in the Lounge/BackRoom/Soapbox is absolutely pointless...it serves no purpose whatsoever other than pissing people off or filling their already inflated egos. ** Flame away **
modified on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:40 AM
This is essentially what we have in the programming forums (Good question / bad question). It's an easy enough change to make...
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Define "target". If you mean "remove accounts", "remove spurious votes", or "have a heart to heart with a long standing member who has an issue and resolve it sensibly", or any combination thereof, then I'd say we're covered.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris, let's say you have the occasional black sheep covered, then everyone should be fine and there should be no voting problem for most. But since the topic comes up again and again and angers members... I am asking myself if there is something left to be improved (such as a faster admin response time or more tools for peer review)? I'd say you are not covered, the occasional univoter trolls are still able to cause trouble. Luckily I miss most of the voting trouble, because I am rarely posting in the Lounge. :)
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That defeats the purpose of the voting system. It's meant to be obvious as to which messages are good and which are to be ignored.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Well it would still be obvious just not that obvious, the small icon would indicate which are good and which are not. But the overall look of the forum would remain the same, lowering the annoyance of the regulars who don't like to see all that gray :) It is of course just a suggestion, and yours to do with what you want :)
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So, as you downvote you lose rep, and negative rep is the limit to allow you to vote? Interesting.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Yeah. It's basically the SO system except with the thresholds shifted so that new users can vote immediately. It would cripple sock puppets; but if the trouble is coming from a few high rep individuals it might not be enough to squish them; depends how many stupid votes they've cast relative to legit rep they've earned; and you're the only person who can look at that stat.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18