It is as if Israel wants an all out war
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Hundreds of new home to be built in the West Bank[^]
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:sigh: You should try living here, it's totally depressing and grotesque. Israel has convinced everyone it is the friendly pro-western country just getting along in the face of muslim terrorism, but what they are doing would've shamed Stalin. My wife and I have a French friend who helped some Palestinians with a peaceful protest in the occupied territories. Her job was to stand and make sure everyone knew she was French, reducing the likelihood that the Israeli army would open fire as the Palestinians pulled down a dry stone wall some settlers had built on their land. The land was given to settlers as the actual owner's hadn't got some kind of planning permission (which is deliberately near impossible to get for this very purpose) from a foreign occupying government. The next time she entered Israel they searched her, and by searched I mean searched in a deliberate attempt to put her off coming again. This is just the tip of the iceberg, every day a new outrage is reported here (and it isn't just media bias), and Israel gets away with it, because it is little slice by little slice and dressed up in legal niceities. I'd love to go to Jerusalem, it's 30/40 miles from Amman, but I don't want to pay the Israeli government the entry visa fee, and I wouldn't want my wife going through their security. And I'm as politically aware as a carrot.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
So what's your point? It's on land that Israel would retain in any peace agreement so the objections are empty rhetoric.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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:sigh: You should try living here, it's totally depressing and grotesque. Israel has convinced everyone it is the friendly pro-western country just getting along in the face of muslim terrorism, but what they are doing would've shamed Stalin. My wife and I have a French friend who helped some Palestinians with a peaceful protest in the occupied territories. Her job was to stand and make sure everyone knew she was French, reducing the likelihood that the Israeli army would open fire as the Palestinians pulled down a dry stone wall some settlers had built on their land. The land was given to settlers as the actual owner's hadn't got some kind of planning permission (which is deliberately near impossible to get for this very purpose) from a foreign occupying government. The next time she entered Israel they searched her, and by searched I mean searched in a deliberate attempt to put her off coming again. This is just the tip of the iceberg, every day a new outrage is reported here (and it isn't just media bias), and Israel gets away with it, because it is little slice by little slice and dressed up in legal niceities. I'd love to go to Jerusalem, it's 30/40 miles from Amman, but I don't want to pay the Israeli government the entry visa fee, and I wouldn't want my wife going through their security. And I'm as politically aware as a carrot.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]I have some idea and for these reasons I will not visit that place. Unfortunately over the past twenty years the ultra orthodox have simply outbred the 'modern' Israelis (i.e. more westernised) plus they have an influx of the rabid right. Now sometimes when the Israeli armed forces go in they take an ultra orthodox rabbi with them who is a civilian. Ask yourself why.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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I have some idea and for these reasons I will not visit that place. Unfortunately over the past twenty years the ultra orthodox have simply outbred the 'modern' Israelis (i.e. more westernised) plus they have an influx of the rabid right. Now sometimes when the Israeli armed forces go in they take an ultra orthodox rabbi with them who is a civilian. Ask yourself why.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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I have some idea and for these reasons I will not visit that place. Unfortunately over the past twenty years the ultra orthodox have simply outbred the 'modern' Israelis (i.e. more westernised) plus they have an influx of the rabid right. Now sometimes when the Israeli armed forces go in they take an ultra orthodox rabbi with them who is a civilian. Ask yourself why.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Trollslayer wrote:
Unfortunately over the past twenty years the ultra orthodox have simply outbred the 'modern' Israelis (i.e. more westernised) plus they have an influx of the rabid right.
That's the real problem there are moderate Jewish people who help the Palestinians, their story rarely gets heard too, which is a shame. The displaced Palestians (lots here in Jordan) have a hell of a time too, they have the status of war refugees, some of them have been here for three generations.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Trollslayer wrote:
Unfortunately over the past twenty years the ultra orthodox have simply outbred the 'modern' Israelis (i.e. more westernised) plus they have an influx of the rabid right.
That's the real problem there are moderate Jewish people who help the Palestinians, their story rarely gets heard too, which is a shame. The displaced Palestians (lots here in Jordan) have a hell of a time too, they have the status of war refugees, some of them have been here for three generations.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Builldozing houses with people in? White phosphorus across wide areas with high density of civilians? Well if you think that's ok...
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And where, exactly, in the article is any of that mentioned or pertinent?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I agree with you most of the time on this. People who don't really practice it are as good as atheists when push comes to shove, but money seems to be a great many more peoples' god instead.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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:sigh: You should try living here, it's totally depressing and grotesque. Israel has convinced everyone it is the friendly pro-western country just getting along in the face of muslim terrorism, but what they are doing would've shamed Stalin. My wife and I have a French friend who helped some Palestinians with a peaceful protest in the occupied territories. Her job was to stand and make sure everyone knew she was French, reducing the likelihood that the Israeli army would open fire as the Palestinians pulled down a dry stone wall some settlers had built on their land. The land was given to settlers as the actual owner's hadn't got some kind of planning permission (which is deliberately near impossible to get for this very purpose) from a foreign occupying government. The next time she entered Israel they searched her, and by searched I mean searched in a deliberate attempt to put her off coming again. This is just the tip of the iceberg, every day a new outrage is reported here (and it isn't just media bias), and Israel gets away with it, because it is little slice by little slice and dressed up in legal niceities. I'd love to go to Jerusalem, it's 30/40 miles from Amman, but I don't want to pay the Israeli government the entry visa fee, and I wouldn't want my wife going through their security. And I'm as politically aware as a carrot.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]I only have one question, you talk and talk, the same as Trollslayer, but do you really understand the problem? if you do, please explain, I'm jewish and I don't understand it, this has been happening way before any of us was born, I can give you the Israeli point of view, but that's not fair for the Palestinian side, because there is the palestinian point of view that I honestly don't know too well, so please, explain to me what is causing this conflict, how it started, when, why. And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation, be neutral, if you can't do it then don't post anything
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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I only have one question, you talk and talk, the same as Trollslayer, but do you really understand the problem? if you do, please explain, I'm jewish and I don't understand it, this has been happening way before any of us was born, I can give you the Israeli point of view, but that's not fair for the Palestinian side, because there is the palestinian point of view that I honestly don't know too well, so please, explain to me what is causing this conflict, how it started, when, why. And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation, be neutral, if you can't do it then don't post anything
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Gonzoox wrote:
And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation, be neutral, if you can't do it then don't post anything
Exactly... That's like saying that Sergeant Bob over there was to blame, when it was really the entire army that invaded... Why blame Jews when it's really the fault of humans in general? Those poor, defenseless crab people were wiped out by the homosapien invaders, and-- Hmm, where's Terry Gilliam[^] with a rubber chicken with you need him?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I only have one question, you talk and talk, the same as Trollslayer, but do you really understand the problem? if you do, please explain, I'm jewish and I don't understand it, this has been happening way before any of us was born, I can give you the Israeli point of view, but that's not fair for the Palestinian side, because there is the palestinian point of view that I honestly don't know too well, so please, explain to me what is causing this conflict, how it started, when, why. And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation, be neutral, if you can't do it then don't post anything
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Sadly the conflict has become self sustaining - what was the lesser wrong to do became the right thing to do and then when people are right then others are wrong so they must keep doing the right things to prevent others doign wrong adn they do wrong because the are evil people etc..... It's far too common around the world and too many people are addicted to being right. It means they don't have to think about the wrong they do to others in the name of righteousness. A behavioural psychologist coudl epxlain it with fancier words but if you look up "The STandford Experiment" there is an encapsulated version of this process which horrified researchers and ruined lives.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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Sadly the conflict has become self sustaining - what was the lesser wrong to do became the right thing to do and then when people are right then others are wrong so they must keep doing the right things to prevent others doign wrong adn they do wrong because the are evil people etc..... It's far too common around the world and too many people are addicted to being right. It means they don't have to think about the wrong they do to others in the name of righteousness. A behavioural psychologist coudl epxlain it with fancier words but if you look up "The STandford Experiment" there is an encapsulated version of this process which horrified researchers and ruined lives.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Trollslayer wrote:
A behavioural psychologist coudl epxlain it with fancier words but if you look up "The STandford Experiment" there is an encapsulated version of this process which horrified researchers and ruined lives.
Wow, creepy stuff there...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Trollslayer wrote:
A behavioural psychologist coudl epxlain it with fancier words but if you look up "The STandford Experiment" there is an encapsulated version of this process which horrified researchers and ruined lives.
Wow, creepy stuff there...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Sounds like some corporate cultures I've observed. There's nothing like watching people defend companies for their illegal and unethical behavior in pursuit of money.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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I only have one question, you talk and talk, the same as Trollslayer, but do you really understand the problem? if you do, please explain, I'm jewish and I don't understand it, this has been happening way before any of us was born, I can give you the Israeli point of view, but that's not fair for the Palestinian side, because there is the palestinian point of view that I honestly don't know too well, so please, explain to me what is causing this conflict, how it started, when, why. And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation, be neutral, if you can't do it then don't post anything
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Gonzoox wrote:
I only have one question, you talk and talk
Where ands when? IIRC I've mentioned this topic exactly twice on this forum.
Gonzoox wrote:
but do you really understand the problem
I doubt anyone really understands the problem any more, it is horrifically complicated. What is clear is the Israeli government over-steps the mark on a regular basis. You know, like firing white phosphorous into heavily populated areas, or commiting massacares in Lebanon.
Gonzoox wrote:
how it started
Joshua Taking Jerico, how far do you want to go back? The OT is full of conficts between the Israelites and the surronding tribes (such as the Philistines, who we now call Palestinian). The Romans kicking the Jew out of Jerusalem? The British Mandate? The holocaust and the resultant founding of Israel by the UN? PLenty of other starting points to choose from. I'd go as far back as the exile in Egypt.
Gonzoox wrote:
And please don't give me that old lecture that jewish are evil and that they have a plan to control the world, be fair on your explanation
Change the fucking record, this one is worn. You missed the blood-libel BTW, oh and the one about poisoning the wells. Point to me where, exactly where I said or implied any of what you said. The Israeli government behaves in an abhorrent fashion, it knows it but gets away with it because as soon as anyone criticises it it, they start wailing Anti-Semitism like a child that has spit out its dummy. You'll notice I was careful to use the words "Israeli Government" there, not Jewsish, not Israeli, because I they aren't all the same thing. I know plenty of Jewish people in Britain who are appalled at what is being done in the name of "Judaism". Did you read my second post? Obviously not. If you haven't got anything useful or accurate to say, then don't say it.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Trollslayer wrote:
A behavioural psychologist coudl epxlain it with fancier words but if you look up "The STandford Experiment" there is an encapsulated version of this process which horrified researchers and ruined lives.
Wow, creepy stuff there...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)