Religion
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Why is it that Christians and Muslims1 are so eager to convert everybody? Is world domination the goal? I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. And I'm beginning to think that's whats happening right now. 1 I'm sure there are other religions which practice where some form of evangelism. I picked these two because they are the most prominent religions today. -- This space for rent.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Why is it that Christians and Muslims are so eager to convert everybody? Because both have commandments to share their faith. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Is world domination the goal? It is for some of the denominations leadership. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. What two incompatible religions are these? If you mean Christianity and Islam that is not the religions but the people involved. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Why is it that Christians and Muslims1 are so eager to convert everybody? Is world domination the goal? I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. And I'm beginning to think that's whats happening right now. 1 I'm sure there are other religions which practice where some form of evangelism. I picked these two because they are the most prominent religions today. -- This space for rent.
- If your view is that anyone not adopting your beliefs is damned, then it is neglegent for you to *not* try to help them, if they are at all receptive to it. 2) If you hunger for power and seek this under the guise of organized religion, then you need to be constantly on the lookout for fresh meat.
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Why is it that Christians and Muslims are so eager to convert everybody? Because both have commandments to share their faith. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Is world domination the goal? It is for some of the denominations leadership. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. What two incompatible religions are these? If you mean Christianity and Islam that is not the religions but the people involved. "I will find a new sig someday."
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: What two incompatible religions are these? If you mean Christianity and Islam that is not the religions but the people involved. The people follow their religions, so indirectly there is a problem when Christianity and Islam meet. -- This space for rent.
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- If your view is that anyone not adopting your beliefs is damned, then it is neglegent for you to *not* try to help them, if they are at all receptive to it. 2) If you hunger for power and seek this under the guise of organized religion, then you need to be constantly on the lookout for fresh meat.
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
Well summed up. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: What two incompatible religions are these? If you mean Christianity and Islam that is not the religions but the people involved. The people follow their religions, so indirectly there is a problem when Christianity and Islam meet. -- This space for rent.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The people follow their religions, so indirectly there is a problem when Christianity and Islam meet. Only because people meet not religions. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Why is it that Christians and Muslims1 are so eager to convert everybody? Is world domination the goal? I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. And I'm beginning to think that's whats happening right now. 1 I'm sure there are other religions which practice where some form of evangelism. I picked these two because they are the most prominent religions today. -- This space for rent.
Imagine a guy stopped you in the street and gave you $5. Imagine that his ability to hand out money is as unlimited as his desire to do so. Would you tell your friends ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Why is it that Christians and Muslims are so eager to convert everybody? Because both have commandments to share their faith. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Is world domination the goal? It is for some of the denominations leadership. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. What two incompatible religions are these? If you mean Christianity and Islam that is not the religions but the people involved. "I will find a new sig someday."
Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. I totally agree with this statement, yes belief is exclusive. My point was that it does not mean that the religions will force an effort to extermination all those who believe the other way. It was my interpretation that was the original threads meaning. It may very well be sharing and attempts to evangelize each other but that is all the religions ask of their follows. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. I totally agree with this statement, yes belief is exclusive. My point was that it does not mean that the religions will force an effort to extermination all those who believe the other way. It was my interpretation that was the original threads meaning. It may very well be sharing and attempts to evangelize each other but that is all the religions ask of their follows. "I will find a new sig someday."
I agree, it seems the world is moving towards war between so-called 'Christian' nations and Islam because of an extreme minority in Islam that want it that way. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Imagine a guy stopped you in the street and gave you $5. Imagine that his ability to hand out money is as unlimited as his desire to do so. Would you tell your friends ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Would you tell your friends ? :-) C'mon get real Christian. I'd tell my friends how they could make 4$ easy, and keep the other 20% for commission. After all we only have friends for their entertainment value, or ability to exploit them when we want something. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. I dispute that with calm. Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, is a religion that provides a framework of faith and meaning that has transformed lives and societies. At the same time, again like Judaism and Christianity, it has been used or abused to justify violence and oppression. We can speak equally about militant Judaism and Christianity as we can about militant Islam. Part of our problem of interpretation is that when a Jewish extremist murdered Muslims at prayer in the Hebron mosque or assassinated Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin, or when Christian extremists, calling themselves the army of God, blew up an abortion clinic, we reflexively distinguished between the mainstream faith of Jews and Christians and the twisted use of religion by fanatics. Making an equivalent distinction with regard to Islam does not regularly occur. After the Islamic dispensations by the Babi in 1848 it has become increasingly difficult for muslims to integrate with non-muslims and this is really just a repeat of what happened with the Christian faith in Roman times right through until the Holy Roman Empire. (and still exists in some places). But prior to this there are many instances where "compatibility" can be shown in history. If you want examples I can point them out. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible with one another, you cannot believe them both. I dispute that with calm. Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, is a religion that provides a framework of faith and meaning that has transformed lives and societies. At the same time, again like Judaism and Christianity, it has been used or abused to justify violence and oppression. We can speak equally about militant Judaism and Christianity as we can about militant Islam. Part of our problem of interpretation is that when a Jewish extremist murdered Muslims at prayer in the Hebron mosque or assassinated Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin, or when Christian extremists, calling themselves the army of God, blew up an abortion clinic, we reflexively distinguished between the mainstream faith of Jews and Christians and the twisted use of religion by fanatics. Making an equivalent distinction with regard to Islam does not regularly occur. After the Islamic dispensations by the Babi in 1848 it has become increasingly difficult for muslims to integrate with non-muslims and this is really just a repeat of what happened with the Christian faith in Roman times right through until the Holy Roman Empire. (and still exists in some places). But prior to this there are many instances where "compatibility" can be shown in history. If you want examples I can point them out. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: I dispute that with calm. Nothing wrong with that :-) Colin Davies wrote: But prior to this there are many instances where "compatibility" can be shown in history. Everything you said to this point has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I have no trouble with living in a society where there are Muslims. I meant incompatibile in the sense that one person cannot hold to both points of view. Colin Davies wrote: If you want examples I can point them out. I would hope that our societies are examples of people of different faiths living together quite happily, and that therefore such examples would not be hard to find. But that's not what I was talking about. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Imagine a guy stopped you in the street and gave you $5. Imagine that his ability to hand out money is as unlimited as his desire to do so. Would you tell your friends ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Only $5?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Why is it that Christians and Muslims1 are so eager to convert everybody? Is world domination the goal? I see this as a problem when these two very incompatible religions meet. And I'm beginning to think that's whats happening right now. 1 I'm sure there are other religions which practice where some form of evangelism. I picked these two because they are the most prominent religions today. -- This space for rent.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Is world domination the goal? If that is the goal, then they are not practicing their religion. We are to spread the good news to all people, what they do with that news is up to them.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Only $5?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *No amount would compare, a low amount makes it obvious I didn't bother to try. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Imagine a guy stopped you in the street and gave you $5. Imagine that his ability to hand out money is as unlimited as his desire to do so. Would you tell your friends ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Would you tell your friends ? I'd make a business out of it. ;) To be serious though, I've never witnessed evangelism in any form which hasn't been down my throat. I feel it's like spam; it's opt-out and I never signed up for it. I used to be a hardcore atheist, but I'm undecided now. I might be agnostic, I'm not sure yet. Is there a meta-agnostic definition? I've changed my mind partly because I've been thinking about these matters and partly because I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine. I'm sort of open to any possibilities should it present itself. However, I feel that it's my responsibility to find out about these matters, not others. The risk of getting a distorted picture is far too high. To tie this with my original post, I argue that the people on the religious fronts are the hard core practitioners seeking to expand their religious "territory". This will cause friction in one way or another. -- This space for rent.
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Colin Davies wrote: I dispute that with calm. Nothing wrong with that :-) Colin Davies wrote: But prior to this there are many instances where "compatibility" can be shown in history. Everything you said to this point has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I have no trouble with living in a society where there are Muslims. I meant incompatibile in the sense that one person cannot hold to both points of view. Colin Davies wrote: If you want examples I can point them out. I would hope that our societies are examples of people of different faiths living together quite happily, and that therefore such examples would not be hard to find. But that's not what I was talking about. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I meant incompatibile in the sense that one person cannot hold to both points of view. Why ? I fail to understand. The Islamic representation of the crucifixion of Jesus differs but the interpretation is similar. Their was for a longtime a perception that Islam was a fraternal partner to the Orthodox ministries, after Mohammed's involvement with the seven clerics. But for centuries propaganda has tried to cover that. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Is world domination the goal? If that is the goal, then they are not practicing their religion. We are to spread the good news to all people, what they do with that news is up to them.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: We are to spread the good news to all people What good news? That we're *not* masters of our own destiny? That there's really an omnipotent being indifferently watching lesser creatures needlessly suffer? That's a strange idea of good news you've got there. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."
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Jason Henderson wrote: We are to spread the good news to all people What good news? That we're *not* masters of our own destiny? That there's really an omnipotent being indifferently watching lesser creatures needlessly suffer? That's a strange idea of good news you've got there. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."
phykell wrote: What good news? That we're *not* masters of our own destiny? Apparently you didn't understand what I said. We tell you the message, what you do with it is up to you. You are still "master of your own destiny" because you can decide to accept the invitation or to decline it. Even if you became a Christian, you would still have all the freedom you have now. phykell wrote: That there's really an omnipotent being indifferently watching lesser creatures needlessly suffer? You don't understand Christianity very well. God is not indifferent, if you studied Christianity at all you would realize that. He has given you a way out! This world's suffering is our own doing, because we reject God at every opportunity. I will gladly explain as much as I can if you want me too. I don't have all the answers, because I'm still learning too. But if you really want to learn more, I can tell you what I know. Otherwise, you are judging something you have no understanding of.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
phykell wrote: What good news? That we're *not* masters of our own destiny? Apparently you didn't understand what I said. We tell you the message, what you do with it is up to you. You are still "master of your own destiny" because you can decide to accept the invitation or to decline it. Even if you became a Christian, you would still have all the freedom you have now. phykell wrote: That there's really an omnipotent being indifferently watching lesser creatures needlessly suffer? You don't understand Christianity very well. God is not indifferent, if you studied Christianity at all you would realize that. He has given you a way out! This world's suffering is our own doing, because we reject God at every opportunity. I will gladly explain as much as I can if you want me too. I don't have all the answers, because I'm still learning too. But if you really want to learn more, I can tell you what I know. Otherwise, you are judging something you have no understanding of.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote:You are still "master of your own destiny" because you can decide to accept the invitation or to decline it. Even if you became a Christian, you would still have all the freedom you have now. If God is really an omnipotent being, he will already know my answer before I give it. He knew before I was born, what answer I would give. He's already made his judgement about me. My fate is sealed and I'm hardly master of my own destiny am I? Jason Henderson wrote: You don't understand Christianity very well. I understand it well enough. Even if your God does exist, Christianity is almost certainly a poor representation of what your God would want. The best thing your God ever did for us was giving us the ten commandments and those rules are enough to live by. What a shame no-one, especially the religious, follow such sensible rules Jason Henderson wrote: God is not indifferent, if you studied Christianity at all you would realize that. He has given you a way out! This world's suffering is our own doing, because we reject God at every opportunity. I will gladly explain as much as I can if you want me too. I don't have all the answers, because I'm still learning too. But if you really want to learn more, I can tell you what I know. Otherwise, you are judging something you have no understanding of. And all he would have to do is make himself known to us. That would sort everything out. But no, he'd rather tell us all that the challenge is to have faith and to do his will despite our short lives and tenuous grip on life. I have never rejected God, he has rejected me, because he didn't give me the ability to *have* faith. I'd love to believe there is a God but I simply don't believe and for me to demonstrate faith anyway, would of course be insincere - and a far greater sin than following God "just in case" he does exist as so many people do. God doesn't speak to me. I don't see him in the wonders of this world like some do. I see the reasons why early man needed a God, I see that such creatures as ourselves can only (possibly) ever have a fraction of understanding about what reality truly is, and despite wanting to believe in a God that loves us, I simply can't. I believe, if there ever is a judgement day, I can stand up and say that I followed the commandments of my own accord and not just because I was told to "fear" a "jealous" all-powerful God. I will live my life as I see fit, deciding for