The models are all wrong! [modified]
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Species extinction, not AGW. (BTW: Climate models are all wrong. :) )
Everybody is elitist to a certain extent; except me - I'm better than that. Micah
Yep, all overstate the impact of CO2 by a factor of 4 and thus overstate the expected warming by a factor of 4. 1 degree rise and extra CO2 will imcrease crop yields and make plants more drought resistant thus aleviating poverty and starvation globally. Those are the facts. Proved, empirical, known. Models on the other hand...
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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Thats right, the SB is for ranting, unless its about overreliance on models and how that might impact AGW. Its for ranting unless its about ecconomic policy driven by AGW. Its for ranting unless its about the UN alarmism with an example from AGW. Its for ranting and its OK if the rant compares AGW scepticism to crackpot religions. You are biassed Chris. Admit it. You secretly support AGW and like Google and the Soros owned press you will stifle freedom of speech. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
And usually when freedom of speech comes up, someone will jump in and say "but it doesn't apply here, it only applies to actual talking in real life" Well guess what, it applies here. "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." (Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) OTOH, it wasn't deleted, just moved.
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And usually when freedom of speech comes up, someone will jump in and say "but it doesn't apply here, it only applies to actual talking in real life" Well guess what, it applies here. "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." (Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) OTOH, it wasn't deleted, just moved.
Daniel Scott wrote:
OTOH, it wasn't deleted, just moved.
Moved to a forum rarely visited. And in any case, my posts are deleted. Interesting quote fomr the Human Rights declaration. Have to try it out in the lounge. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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Sorry Chris, but I'm not having the endless GW debate in the Soapbox.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I don't know Chris, it looks like they had the debate anyways. :rolleyes:
-- ** You don't hire a handyman to build a house, you hire a carpenter. ** Jack of all trades and master of none.
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Sorry Chris, but I'm not having the endless GW debate in the Soapbox.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Understood, no problem at all. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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Yep, all overstate the impact of CO2 by a factor of 4 and thus overstate the expected warming by a factor of 4. 1 degree rise and extra CO2 will imcrease crop yields and make plants more drought resistant thus aleviating poverty and starvation globally. Those are the facts. Proved, empirical, known. Models on the other hand...
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
fat_boy wrote:
1 degree rise and extra CO2 will imcrease crop yields and make plants more drought resistant thus aleviating poverty and starvation globally. Those are the facts. Proved, empirical, known.
You've claimed this before and had to retract. Please do so again. :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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fat_boy wrote:
1 degree rise and extra CO2 will imcrease crop yields and make plants more drought resistant thus aleviating poverty and starvation globally. Those are the facts. Proved, empirical, known.
You've claimed this before and had to retract. Please do so again. :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
I have never had to retract this statement. Feel free to prove me wrong by finding where you think I did so. :laugh:
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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I have never had to retract this statement. Feel free to prove me wrong by finding where you think I did so. :laugh:
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
Just check back on our last debate where you dismissed reearch showing that was not the case, and then grudgingly agreed it was valid.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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Just check back on our last debate where you dismissed reearch showing that was not the case, and then grudgingly agreed it was valid.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
No I didnt. You go find it or keep quiet.
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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Hey fat_boy. Here's some more evidence[^] of scientists using models inaccurately (That's the PC way of saying they are lying). Although it does appear that it is other scientists that have figured out that the models were being used improperly. :doh:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
modified on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:52 PM
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Elle McPherson doesn't care about GW.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^] "Program as if the technical support department is full of serial killers and they know your home address" - Ray Cassick Jr., RIP
Yeah, but I'd love to globally warm up to Elle though. ;P
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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Just check back on our last debate where you dismissed reearch showing that was not the case, and then grudgingly agreed it was valid.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
I see you are keeping quiet. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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No I didnt. You go find it or keep quiet.
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
Yes you did. Now go any show it can't be found, or keep quiet. :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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I see you are keeping quiet. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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Yes you did. Now go any show it can't be found, or keep quiet. :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
There you go, had a look, cant find it, thus I didnt say it. Now retract. :P
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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There you go, had a look, cant find it, thus I didnt say it. Now retract. :P
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. :laugh: Go back to when you dismissed open field experiments that did not find the purported increase in yield that closed greenhouse ones did. I pointed out that your dismissal was invalid and the experiments did throw doubt on the claimed increase. On the basis of the observations before me (i.e. your responses to other peoples' points) I conclude: 1 You do not understand the nature of science. 2 You have a predetermined view that simply dismisses any contrary findings. 3 You make extravagant claims that you cannot back upa nd often have to retract. 4 You don't listen. This is not a model! :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. :laugh: Go back to when you dismissed open field experiments that did not find the purported increase in yield that closed greenhouse ones did. I pointed out that your dismissal was invalid and the experiments did throw doubt on the claimed increase. On the basis of the observations before me (i.e. your responses to other peoples' points) I conclude: 1 You do not understand the nature of science. 2 You have a predetermined view that simply dismisses any contrary findings. 3 You make extravagant claims that you cannot back upa nd often have to retract. 4 You don't listen. This is not a model! :laugh:
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
riced wrote:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. :laugh:
Well if you cant find any and I cant find any then really your assertion is baseless. :) As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately. A closed greenhouse is far more accurate. So really, I cant see how you can think there ever was a conversation in the past where I accpted them. As for the rest, if you want to attck me personaly to back up a weak position then you are at least conforming to type. After all, when it fails to warm, when storms fail to become more frequent, when plants fail to suffer, and wildlife fails to go extinct you can always call those who point this out stupid, deniers, non-scientific and excentrics. I however will call them empiricists. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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riced wrote:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. :laugh:
Well if you cant find any and I cant find any then really your assertion is baseless. :) As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately. A closed greenhouse is far more accurate. So really, I cant see how you can think there ever was a conversation in the past where I accpted them. As for the rest, if you want to attck me personaly to back up a weak position then you are at least conforming to type. After all, when it fails to warm, when storms fail to become more frequent, when plants fail to suffer, and wildlife fails to go extinct you can always call those who point this out stupid, deniers, non-scientific and excentrics. I however will call them empiricists. :)
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately. QED.
fat_boy wrote:
A closed greenhouse is far more accurate.
But a closed greenhouse is a model and we know (from your previous posts) how useless they are. I pointed out that the FACE studies were aware of the problem of keeping CO2 levels constant and that they monitored and regulated the levels automatically. IIRC you accepted this (perhaps I'm wrong and you simply went quiet :laugh: ).
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately. QED.
fat_boy wrote:
A closed greenhouse is far more accurate.
But a closed greenhouse is a model and we know (from your previous posts) how useless they are. I pointed out that the FACE studies were aware of the problem of keeping CO2 levels constant and that they monitored and regulated the levels automatically. IIRC you accepted this (perhaps I'm wrong and you simply went quiet :laugh: ).
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
riced wrote:
As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately.
QED.No, not QED. You stated I had retracted, I stated I havent, for the reasons given. SInce you have not shown that I retracted its not QED. :) And in fact its obvious. In an open field you cant state that compaerd to a control group a concentration of x CO2 has y effect on growth because you cant maintain the concentration at x due to wind. And not only that if th econtrol group are anywhere near you cant their CO2 level will be affected too. Its rubbish science. An experiement so full of blatant holes no one except a typical AGW alarmist would accept it as valid. And on top of that, the FACE experiements ended up with a 16% increase in yield. So how does this indicate in any way that my statement that CO2 increases croip yields is wrong?
riced wrote:
But a closed greenhouse is a model and we know (from your previous posts) how useless they are.
Its not a model, its the real thing. Real plants, real CO2.
riced wrote:
I pointed out that the FACE studies were aware of the problem of keeping CO2 levels constant and that they monitored and regulated the levels automatically. IIRC you accepted this (perhaps I'm wrong and you simply went quiet :laugh: ).
And even then they showed a 16% increase which even with this bad science supports totally my statement that additional CO2 will increase crop yields globally and alleviate poverty and starvation.
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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riced wrote:
As for the FACE experiments I would never accept that they were a valid test for CO2 concentrations because of their inability to control CO2 levels accurately.
QED.No, not QED. You stated I had retracted, I stated I havent, for the reasons given. SInce you have not shown that I retracted its not QED. :) And in fact its obvious. In an open field you cant state that compaerd to a control group a concentration of x CO2 has y effect on growth because you cant maintain the concentration at x due to wind. And not only that if th econtrol group are anywhere near you cant their CO2 level will be affected too. Its rubbish science. An experiement so full of blatant holes no one except a typical AGW alarmist would accept it as valid. And on top of that, the FACE experiements ended up with a 16% increase in yield. So how does this indicate in any way that my statement that CO2 increases croip yields is wrong?
riced wrote:
But a closed greenhouse is a model and we know (from your previous posts) how useless they are.
Its not a model, its the real thing. Real plants, real CO2.
riced wrote:
I pointed out that the FACE studies were aware of the problem of keeping CO2 levels constant and that they monitored and regulated the levels automatically. IIRC you accepted this (perhaps I'm wrong and you simply went quiet :laugh: ).
And even then they showed a 16% increase which even with this bad science supports totally my statement that additional CO2 will increase crop yields globally and alleviate poverty and starvation.
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
fat_boy wrote:
Its not a model, its the real thing. Real plants, real CO2.
It's a model of the effects of C02 on the environment. All experiments are models - they abstract from the real situation. And that's the basis of how sciences progress.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.