I give up
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Allow me to let you know who I am, before I continue. You can call me Magius96(for the purpose of this forum). I'm self taught in the methods of programing. So far, I've taught myself Visual Basic, C, C++, HTML, and now Visual C++. In my attempts to learn on my own, I've had to use many references. I only own 2 books on programing, those being "Teach Yourself C in 24 hours", and "Teach Yourself Visual C++ 6 in 21 days", both from Sam's publisher. I had learned GW-Basic first, way back when my Tandy 2000 HX was still considered up to date. That's what gave me the ground work for learning Visual Basic, and the rest. Even though, I had that bit of ground work, and the reference materials, there often comes a time when nothing I have will provide me with an answer. Quite often, the answer I seek, is something you take for granted that everybody knows already. But there are those like myself, who don't, because we're self taught. It's because of this, that I enjoy seeing people write and submit articles/tutorials. It doesn't matter to me how lame, or stupid they may sound. Even if I already knew the information, I'm still gladdened by the fact that someone, somewhere, took the time to at least try and help someone else try to learn. No, I have never submitted an articles/tutorial, and I probably never will. The major reason being that, even if I did find something to make an article on, I could probably find an article on the internet written about it already. And if not, then I can assume, that someone, with more experience, and qualification, will write it later. In closing, just because they are new at programing, doesn't mean they can't write a good article. Even if thier english is not the best, they can still be informative. And even if you already knew it all, someone else didn't. So, if you already know everything an article has to say, be happy that someone wrote it to help someone else learn. That's just one more question you won't have to answer in the forums later. "Don't tell me I'm smart, I might actually believe you!"
"It doesn't matter to me how lame, or stupid they may sound. Even if I already knew the information, I'm still gladdened by the fact that someone, somewhere, took the time to at least try and help someone else try to learn." > Glad to see someone with a positive attitude here. I actually feel guilty that i never contributed to the forum, and unfortunately it does not look like i'll have time to do so in near future. There're a lot of people out there who're willing to help out other total strangers/newbie on the internet and I would like to voice my support and appreciation here. Thanks guru (lame article or not)! norm
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This speaks volume of your personality. I think it's important that I'm honest, up front, so people get to know who they are dealing with as quickly as possible. I've said some things on CP that, yes, I regret. This post was not one of them. This is why it's called "the soap box". Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Grauswe all speak with the wrong side of our head when things get heated up. hope there'll be no more flaming and if i've offended "you" in anyway, my apology too - perhaps i read too much into the lines. i come from a background in project management. i do have a good degree. BUT i do have A LOT OF RESPECT for honest hardcore programmers who make a honest living: honest to your trade and proud of the work u do. norm
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Seeing the absolute lack of quality in the articles posted recently (no, not by the "regulars", but by these newbies, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions): 1. I can really understand why programers have such a bad rep-pew-tation; 2. I would never want to work with these losers; 3. I'm getting really depressed about it all; 4. I'm wondering if it's worth submitting articles anymore. The quality articles (err, umm, I think I fall sort of in that category) get drowned out by the garbage. And I have had one really horrible thought in my head the last week or so. CP was a great place, now it's being littered with garbage. Maybe it's time to move on... Please, someone, do something to put the quality back into CP. And the rating system doesn't do it. The good articles scroll off the 10 last submissions so fast, as I'm really getting tired of clicking on something that sounds interesting and turns out to be about as interesting as an enema. If we could institute a "noise level" for articles, I would really use this! As an aside, can any of the admin's come up with a weekly average of article ratings over say, the last 6 months? I bet it looks like a bowling ball in free fall. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian GrausMaybe the size of the list of top recent articles could be configurable ? I also believe that eventually you'll be able to only view articles above a certain rating. However, in my opinion there are two things to remember 1. It's unlikely the article you need is going to have just been submitted, and 2. The dross remains in the unedited section forever or is deleted. SO I don't percieve it as an insurmountable problem, although I would agree it is a problem, and a lot of the articles coming in are pathetic. A lot of them are rather good as well, may I add. It's the price of growth and visibility. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Do you need counseling? Always. Yes, you're right, the community is still here. Sometimes I can't see the community for the people. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian GrausMarc Clifton wrote: Sometimes I can't see the community for the people. The paraphrasing stops here I'm afraid. You can chop down trees without going to jail. :) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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Allow me to let you know who I am, before I continue. You can call me Magius96(for the purpose of this forum). I'm self taught in the methods of programing. So far, I've taught myself Visual Basic, C, C++, HTML, and now Visual C++. In my attempts to learn on my own, I've had to use many references. I only own 2 books on programing, those being "Teach Yourself C in 24 hours", and "Teach Yourself Visual C++ 6 in 21 days", both from Sam's publisher. I had learned GW-Basic first, way back when my Tandy 2000 HX was still considered up to date. That's what gave me the ground work for learning Visual Basic, and the rest. Even though, I had that bit of ground work, and the reference materials, there often comes a time when nothing I have will provide me with an answer. Quite often, the answer I seek, is something you take for granted that everybody knows already. But there are those like myself, who don't, because we're self taught. It's because of this, that I enjoy seeing people write and submit articles/tutorials. It doesn't matter to me how lame, or stupid they may sound. Even if I already knew the information, I'm still gladdened by the fact that someone, somewhere, took the time to at least try and help someone else try to learn. No, I have never submitted an articles/tutorial, and I probably never will. The major reason being that, even if I did find something to make an article on, I could probably find an article on the internet written about it already. And if not, then I can assume, that someone, with more experience, and qualification, will write it later. In closing, just because they are new at programing, doesn't mean they can't write a good article. Even if thier english is not the best, they can still be informative. And even if you already knew it all, someone else didn't. So, if you already know everything an article has to say, be happy that someone wrote it to help someone else learn. That's just one more question you won't have to answer in the forums later. "Don't tell me I'm smart, I might actually believe you!"
I think you've missed the point. FWIW I am also self taught and the two books you own were my first two books for learning C++ and Windows programming. I've now been coding for several years as a job and so there's a lot of stuff that gets posted which is of no use to me, as I know it or could have found out as easily from MSDN. However, that is not what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is articles that are of use to no-one because they do not explain anything, they just present a blob of code, or explain something useless, like how to use a third party product which you also need to buy. Nish springs to mind as someone who has written a plethora of articles that I would never have thought of, because if I had, my first reaction would be duh. But that just shows Nish is better able to remember what it was like to be starting out, and I'm glad he writes those articles for the benefit of newbies. He is a good example of someone who I would support because his articles, although often of no use to me, are written well and will help others. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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"I would never want to work with these losers" This speaks volume of your personality. As much as I opposes to censorship, u should be friggin banned from the forum for the disrespect. I dont think there's a need to elaborate. norm
I know that I've said this before but I think too many people today take offense to too little too much. Instead of whining about it, move on with your life. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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"People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all. That usually signifies either a lack of command of the English language" >so, the msg is "Speak English" eh? give me a break. i can write in the most "proper" english, mystify simple ideas and make people wow at what i write - and i do. I have no choice but to satify academics like u and get my friggin degree. u know how many garbage paper i need to read every month? i've done my grad degree in top school here in canada and i know "proper english" is like. common bud. put away all this pretense. "Speak English"? if u're a racist, just admit it. and btw, what's wrong with people who dont "Speak English" huh? u bloody racist. "If you want to get something off your chest then do it here - but enter at your own risk." > show me the risk, and tell me u're not doing to same. "People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all" > it's just a short hand bud. if u dont like it, dont ever read my post again if this offends u. and it's got nothing to do with "cool", or "not cool". the mere thought of it... u make me sick. it's a very repulsive thing u said. "Norm, both you and Marc have been here for seven months. However, you've posted less than 200 articles whereas Marc has posted over a thousand." > yeah, u're right. I took so much and perhaps i really should contribute. but i dont come here to be a "Gold member". u come here for a trophy? btw, the fact that he contributed over a 1000 articles doesnt give u the right to be disrespectful. u may think someone contributed a lame article, but this person did put in the effort. This person just want to help out other fellow developers. It's such a disgusting thing to say "dont want to work with loser no more"... That's disgusting. u two dont get along with people very well dont u? anwyay, this will be all, i dont enjoy debate and i'd like to look at myself as a peaceful person. I dont even know why I responded to u two. norm
norm wrote: and btw, what's wrong with people who dont "Speak English" huh? u bloody racist. Dude, knock it off. I like a good flame war as much as anyone, but the whole "language == culture == race" thing has been done to death. It's old. It's over. Where were you during the "ebonics" debacle? No one but racists seriously think race has any major effect on language. David left you *plenty* of good openings. Use them. :|
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
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Seeing the absolute lack of quality in the articles posted recently (no, not by the "regulars", but by these newbies, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions): 1. I can really understand why programers have such a bad rep-pew-tation; 2. I would never want to work with these losers; 3. I'm getting really depressed about it all; 4. I'm wondering if it's worth submitting articles anymore. The quality articles (err, umm, I think I fall sort of in that category) get drowned out by the garbage. And I have had one really horrible thought in my head the last week or so. CP was a great place, now it's being littered with garbage. Maybe it's time to move on... Please, someone, do something to put the quality back into CP. And the rating system doesn't do it. The good articles scroll off the 10 last submissions so fast, as I'm really getting tired of clicking on something that sounds interesting and turns out to be about as interesting as an enema. If we could institute a "noise level" for articles, I would really use this! As an aside, can any of the admin's come up with a weekly average of article ratings over say, the last 6 months? I bet it looks like a bowling ball in free fall. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian GrausThings are less than ideal, but it's not the end of the world. *shog checks out window to make sure sky isn't burning, listening for last trump* Nope, not the end of the world just yet. Nor the end of CP, i'd hope. I worry a bit that new visitors to the site might be turned off by a lame article, but the "Latest Top Rated Articles" box should help a good deal in that regard also. And for those of us more used to the site, the monthy competition provides a *great* way to catch up on the months' better articles while ignoring the dross. It ain't no bed of roses, but it ain't no crown of thorns... ;)
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
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"People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all. That usually signifies either a lack of command of the English language" >so, the msg is "Speak English" eh? give me a break. i can write in the most "proper" english, mystify simple ideas and make people wow at what i write - and i do. I have no choice but to satify academics like u and get my friggin degree. u know how many garbage paper i need to read every month? i've done my grad degree in top school here in canada and i know "proper english" is like. common bud. put away all this pretense. "Speak English"? if u're a racist, just admit it. and btw, what's wrong with people who dont "Speak English" huh? u bloody racist. "If you want to get something off your chest then do it here - but enter at your own risk." > show me the risk, and tell me u're not doing to same. "People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all" > it's just a short hand bud. if u dont like it, dont ever read my post again if this offends u. and it's got nothing to do with "cool", or "not cool". the mere thought of it... u make me sick. it's a very repulsive thing u said. "Norm, both you and Marc have been here for seven months. However, you've posted less than 200 articles whereas Marc has posted over a thousand." > yeah, u're right. I took so much and perhaps i really should contribute. but i dont come here to be a "Gold member". u come here for a trophy? btw, the fact that he contributed over a 1000 articles doesnt give u the right to be disrespectful. u may think someone contributed a lame article, but this person did put in the effort. This person just want to help out other fellow developers. It's such a disgusting thing to say "dont want to work with loser no more"... That's disgusting. u two dont get along with people very well dont u? anwyay, this will be all, i dont enjoy debate and i'd like to look at myself as a peaceful person. I dont even know why I responded to u two. norm
I don't think his reply was meant to be racist in any way. And from what I've seen of them on CP, Marc and David seem like pretty respectable people (I haven't had any qualms with them). It seems the flaming started with you, Marc was just getting something off his chest and he didn't point any fingers. Pissing people off on a forum isn't going to make them respect you. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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Seeing the absolute lack of quality in the articles posted recently (no, not by the "regulars", but by these newbies, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions): 1. I can really understand why programers have such a bad rep-pew-tation; 2. I would never want to work with these losers; 3. I'm getting really depressed about it all; 4. I'm wondering if it's worth submitting articles anymore. The quality articles (err, umm, I think I fall sort of in that category) get drowned out by the garbage. And I have had one really horrible thought in my head the last week or so. CP was a great place, now it's being littered with garbage. Maybe it's time to move on... Please, someone, do something to put the quality back into CP. And the rating system doesn't do it. The good articles scroll off the 10 last submissions so fast, as I'm really getting tired of clicking on something that sounds interesting and turns out to be about as interesting as an enema. If we could institute a "noise level" for articles, I would really use this! As an aside, can any of the admin's come up with a weekly average of article ratings over say, the last 6 months? I bet it looks like a bowling ball in free fall. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian GrausI totally agree with you that some of the articles as of late have been total crap (maybe I shouldn't talk since I haven't posted any myself). But I still think that it's totally worth it to post articles because, even though there is a lot of bad ones, there is still a lot of good ones. Let's give these noobs a chance and maybe they can learn from their mistakes (otherwise we damn them to the bowels of err...non-CPdom, yeah, muahaha). Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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norm wrote: and btw, what's wrong with people who dont "Speak English" huh? u bloody racist. Dude, knock it off. I like a good flame war as much as anyone, but the whole "language == culture == race" thing has been done to death. It's old. It's over. Where were you during the "ebonics" debacle? No one but racists seriously think race has any major effect on language. David left you *plenty* of good openings. Use them. :|
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
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I don't think his reply was meant to be racist in any way. And from what I've seen of them on CP, Marc and David seem like pretty respectable people (I haven't had any qualms with them). It seems the flaming started with you, Marc was just getting something off his chest and he didn't point any fingers. Pissing people off on a forum isn't going to make them respect you. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
yeah man, i think i started the flame war. "I would never want to work with these losers;" "People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all. That usually signifies either a lack of command of the English language or that you believe that you're a "1337 HaXoR" and that you know a lot about coding when you are really just a script kiddie." u've got a twisted sense of what "respect" mean. and u can imagine why we are not welcomed, with an american passport, in any other continent on earth. norm
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I know that I've said this before but I think too many people today take offense to too little too much. Instead of whining about it, move on with your life. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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yeah man, i think i started the flame war. "I would never want to work with these losers;" "People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all. That usually signifies either a lack of command of the English language or that you believe that you're a "1337 HaXoR" and that you know a lot about coding when you are really just a script kiddie." u've got a twisted sense of what "respect" mean. and u can imagine why we are not welcomed, with an american passport, in any other continent on earth. norm
norm wrote: u can imagine why we are not welcomed, with an american passport, in any other continent on earth. :confused: Mike Mullikin :beer:
The goal of any programmer is to build something that will last at least until he's finished building it. - - Anonymous
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yeah man, i think i started the flame war. "I would never want to work with these losers;" "People who use "u" instead of "you" aren't cool at all. That usually signifies either a lack of command of the English language or that you believe that you're a "1337 HaXoR" and that you know a lot about coding when you are really just a script kiddie." u've got a twisted sense of what "respect" mean. and u can imagine why we are not welcomed, with an american passport, in any other continent on earth. norm
Dude, if you've got a bone to pick, do it on somebody else's time because I don't want to hear your "I'm getting offended over everything" attitude. And no, I'm not saying this because I'm racist or an asshole (I'm not, ask anybody I know) but because I personally have better things to do. You know, this is the first time that somebody has pissed me off on CP. Why am I even replying to this, I should know better. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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Religion seems popular, as is political ideology [damn ivory tower elitist liberals | damn short-sighted greedy capitalists]. Or you could go back to the rip on elitist CPians that you started with.
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Shog9 Atheists are boring. They only talk about god. - peterchen, “Atheists are idiots”
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Dude, if you've got a bone to pick, do it on somebody else's time because I don't want to hear your "I'm getting offended over everything" attitude. And no, I'm not saying this because I'm racist or an asshole (I'm not, ask anybody I know) but because I personally have better things to do. You know, this is the first time that somebody has pissed me off on CP. Why am I even replying to this, I should know better. Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
Brad Jennings wrote: You know, this is the first time that somebody has pissed me off on CP. LOL - welcome to the club. I love this place ( like you didn't guess ), but any room this size is going to contain a moron or two. (Note to whoever is arguing with Brad, I'm not calling you a moron, so don't start on me, OK ? ) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Brad Jennings wrote: You know, this is the first time that somebody has pissed me off on CP. LOL - welcome to the club. I love this place ( like you didn't guess ), but any room this size is going to contain a moron or two. (Note to whoever is arguing with Brad, I'm not calling you a moron, so don't start on me, OK ? ) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Thanks for the pat on the back. Now it's time to be goofy again. ;P:-D Brad Jennings My latest nickname: Kidney Stone (Nickname courtesy of my roommates)
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Marc Clifton wrote: Sometimes I can't see the community for the people. The paraphrasing stops here I'm afraid. You can chop down trees without going to jail. :) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You can chop down trees without going to jail. I think I have seen a number people on fire, just burn them where they stand. :-D But do be companionate when slips of the tongue are made.:-O "I will find a new sig someday."
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My apologies are fully extended. My opinion was based upon my own experience. Although I just joined the forums today, I have been here quite some time, mostly using the articles as reference materials. All in all, I believe it to be almost 2 months since I started coming here. In those two short months, I have run across an extreme few articles that weren't of any help. Then again, that is just my experience, and doesn't necessarily reflect upon what is really going on. Perhaps after browsing a few more month, I may notice the same trend. If that is the case, then I would agree with him, to an extent. None-the less, thank you for pointing out my error. "Don't tell me I'm smart, I might actually believe you!"
Magius96 wrote: My apologies are fully extended. S'alright man. Sorry about how harsh I was. I was kind of upset after I replied to norm's post and then I saw yours and got a little more tweaked than I should have been. Here, as an apology, have a jar of :vegemite:. :-D Oh, this may be a little late...but welcome to CodeProject. And remember, :bob: :love: you. :-D
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET