Red Hunt
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I just watched The Majestic[^] and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think it was a bit confused in what it was trying to say, but overall worth watching. Anyway, this is not a film review :) What I want to know is; Was anyone here old enough during the Cold War to remember the witch hunts for communists within the USA? How bad was it? Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? The movie touched on it but of course movies can be a touch dramatic at times, so want to hear it from "real" people :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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I just watched The Majestic[^] and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think it was a bit confused in what it was trying to say, but overall worth watching. Anyway, this is not a film review :) What I want to know is; Was anyone here old enough during the Cold War to remember the witch hunts for communists within the USA? How bad was it? Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? The movie touched on it but of course movies can be a touch dramatic at times, so want to hear it from "real" people :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
It was called "McCarthyism". You might want to explore this link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAred.htm[^] Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus -
I just watched The Majestic[^] and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think it was a bit confused in what it was trying to say, but overall worth watching. Anyway, this is not a film review :) What I want to know is; Was anyone here old enough during the Cold War to remember the witch hunts for communists within the USA? How bad was it? Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? The movie touched on it but of course movies can be a touch dramatic at times, so want to hear it from "real" people :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
My earliest real memories are from about 1958-1960. I do remember the 1960 presidential campaign. By that time the real enthusiam was waning but I do remember at least my parents comments about how some very wrong things were still happing. Just being called a commie would destroy your career or buisness with often no recourse to the charged individual or group. Paul Watson wrote: Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? To be honest I think on the edge is a little short. They were over at least for some. "I will find a new sig someday."
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It was called "McCarthyism". You might want to explore this link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAred.htm[^] Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus"However, once in power, Palmer's views on civil rights changed dramatically" - speaks volumes about a lot of people who have been in power. I've often wondered what turn history would have taken had Russia not sold Alaska to the USA in 1867. Would it have made a difference having a base on the same continent, or would it have basically been the same considering they were only 60 miles further away than Alaska on the other side of the pacific. :~
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some-it won't hurt you'... -Christian Graus on Code Project outages His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a tumble dryer. It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to he wall**-Shaun Wilde**
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"However, once in power, Palmer's views on civil rights changed dramatically" - speaks volumes about a lot of people who have been in power. I've often wondered what turn history would have taken had Russia not sold Alaska to the USA in 1867. Would it have made a difference having a base on the same continent, or would it have basically been the same considering they were only 60 miles further away than Alaska on the other side of the pacific. :~
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some-it won't hurt you'... -Christian Graus on Code Project outages His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a tumble dryer. It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to he wall**-Shaun Wilde**
Megan Forbes wrote: I've often wondered what turn history would have taken had Russia not sold Alaska to the USA in 1867. Wow, I've never really thought about that. I know everyone believes that the US got a deal now, buying a goldmine above an oilwell for less than a cent a hectare. But was it Russia's to sell ? The Russia America Company was the only real entity their apart from the natives, and the RAC had basically closed shop. One funny thing is that they still haven't ratified the border !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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My earliest real memories are from about 1958-1960. I do remember the 1960 presidential campaign. By that time the real enthusiam was waning but I do remember at least my parents comments about how some very wrong things were still happing. Just being called a commie would destroy your career or buisness with often no recourse to the charged individual or group. Paul Watson wrote: Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? To be honest I think on the edge is a little short. They were over at least for some. "I will find a new sig someday."
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: To be honest I think on the edge is a little short. They were over at least for some. From what I have read and seen on docmentaries, it was a case of baseless hysterical panic in most cases, very similar to "witch-hunts" of old. I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. I know the mere fact that if you denounced the proceedings you were automatically condemned as a suspect red. But I've always felt that a majority of the population knew it was all hog-wash. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Megan Forbes wrote: I've often wondered what turn history would have taken had Russia not sold Alaska to the USA in 1867. Wow, I've never really thought about that. I know everyone believes that the US got a deal now, buying a goldmine above an oilwell for less than a cent a hectare. But was it Russia's to sell ? The Russia America Company was the only real entity their apart from the natives, and the RAC had basically closed shop. One funny thing is that they still haven't ratified the border !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: Company was the only real entity their apart from the natives, This was the biggest problem with European explorers. Instead of embracing the cultures they found to create diversity and share the wonderful things each culture has to bring (with the possible exception of cannabilistic people occasionally found :rolleyes: ), our ancestors went around bashing them on the head. I'm as sick as the next person (of European descent) of being blamed for the actions of people 5 -10 generations older than myself (over whom I had no control, as I didn't exist yet), but just think how much more interesting the world would be if all these cultures' wierdeties, oddities, and wonderful celebratory customs had been integrated and accepted, instead of being destroyed.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some-it won't hurt you'... -Christian Graus on Code Project outages His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a tumble dryer. It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to he wall**-Shaun Wilde**
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It was called "McCarthyism". You might want to explore this link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAred.htm[^] Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian GrausMarc Clifton wrote: _http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAred.htm\[^\]_ Holy crap. Did you see some of the names in the blacklist? Leonard Bernstein, Charlie Chaplin, Aaron Copland, Arthur Miller and Orson Welles! What the FUBAR where they thinking? Thanks for the link, amazing, scary, stuff.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: To be honest I think on the edge is a little short. They were over at least for some. From what I have read and seen on docmentaries, it was a case of baseless hysterical panic in most cases, very similar to "witch-hunts" of old. I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. I know the mere fact that if you denounced the proceedings you were automatically condemned as a suspect red. But I've always felt that a majority of the population knew it was all hog-wash. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: From what I have read and seen on docmentaries, it was a case of baseless hysterical panic in most cases, very similar to "witch-hunts" of old. Actually the witch-hunts of old had more basis of foundation. Most of the witch humts were following periods of very humid weather and in regions that rye was a staple. This last centruy a Swiss chemist discovered that a fungus found in rye (when damp) had strong chemicals in it (LSD.) So all of these witches were just on trips:) Yes the paranoia that existed was quite strong. Colin Davies wrote: I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. It is just human nature. No one wants to be first. Just step back 20 years earlier to Germany (for an example of this is not just US or Americans). How did the German citizens ignore what Hitler was doing. I do not believe the average German was that evil but no one wanted to be first. It just proves the point that our society is quite fragile no matter how it is based. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Marc Clifton wrote: _http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAred.htm\[^\]_ Holy crap. Did you see some of the names in the blacklist? Leonard Bernstein, Charlie Chaplin, Aaron Copland, Arthur Miller and Orson Welles! What the FUBAR where they thinking? Thanks for the link, amazing, scary, stuff.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
Paul Watson wrote: What the FUBAR where they thinking? The only good commie is a dead commie. Better dead than Red. (My Favorite:-O) Shall I try to think of more slogans of the times? X| :rose: To balance this please remember that a commie at that time was Stalin's Soviet Union. It was evil, so this was not totally done with out some agent to generate the fear. And just a few years later movies like "The Russians Are Comming" were being made. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: To be honest I think on the edge is a little short. They were over at least for some. From what I have read and seen on docmentaries, it was a case of baseless hysterical panic in most cases, very similar to "witch-hunts" of old. I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. I know the mere fact that if you denounced the proceedings you were automatically condemned as a suspect red. But I've always felt that a majority of the population knew it was all hog-wash. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. Kind of reminiscent of Hitler's Germany. A huge percentage of the population disagreed with policy but felt powerless to stop/change it. Sad really. Mike Mullikin :beer:
The goal of any programmer is to build something that will last at least until he's finished building it. - - Anonymous
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Colin Davies wrote: From what I have read and seen on docmentaries, it was a case of baseless hysterical panic in most cases, very similar to "witch-hunts" of old. Actually the witch-hunts of old had more basis of foundation. Most of the witch humts were following periods of very humid weather and in regions that rye was a staple. This last centruy a Swiss chemist discovered that a fungus found in rye (when damp) had strong chemicals in it (LSD.) So all of these witches were just on trips:) Yes the paranoia that existed was quite strong. Colin Davies wrote: I've always wondered how so many Americans "knew" it was wrong but didn't rise above it. It is just human nature. No one wants to be first. Just step back 20 years earlier to Germany (for an example of this is not just US or Americans). How did the German citizens ignore what Hitler was doing. I do not believe the average German was that evil but no one wanted to be first. It just proves the point that our society is quite fragile no matter how it is based. "I will find a new sig someday."
Actually I didn't want to make the analogy to Hitlers Germany as that sounded to crazy. But I agree it seems very similar. Michael A. Barnhart wrote: It just proves the point that our society is quite fragile no matter how it is based. That is very scary. I hope the fact that since we now have better communications such a thing cannot happen again. But only the future can tell. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Actually I didn't want to make the analogy to Hitlers Germany as that sounded to crazy. But I agree it seems very similar. Michael A. Barnhart wrote: It just proves the point that our society is quite fragile no matter how it is based. That is very scary. I hope the fact that since we now have better communications such a thing cannot happen again. But only the future can tell. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: That is very scary. Agreed Colin Davies wrote: I hope the fact that since we now have better communications such a thing cannot happen again. Well, IMO it definitly can happen again. Now with the better communications the chances are much less but only if we as citizens do something with what we learn of each other. If we site back and do nothing then nothing has changed. I really find it upsetting that so many think they have no influence and can do nothing to change their country!:mad: At least they can write (or email, or send a message some way) to their countries leaders. Yes if my senator only get my letter saying "Hey, I think we need to ****" then little will happen. But if the senator recieves a hundred messages then I promise you they know they must get some attention on this. Now lets put this in perspective. 100 letters from just my city alone (a small part of the state) is 100/500,000 is just 0.02% EGAD look how little of a segment actually has to be concerned for something to happen!:confused: 10 years ago one of my team members brother was a congressional aid. He passed on that if 6 personal letters were recieved in one month on a subject it was a major issue. That is what percentage! 0.001%! or less. Sorry you really got me going. Just a few individuals can make a difference, So are we/you/whatever going to sit back or just a few times a year take an hour and compose a letter that may change history and make the world a better place:rose:. Ok I feel a little better now. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Colin Davies wrote: That is very scary. Agreed Colin Davies wrote: I hope the fact that since we now have better communications such a thing cannot happen again. Well, IMO it definitly can happen again. Now with the better communications the chances are much less but only if we as citizens do something with what we learn of each other. If we site back and do nothing then nothing has changed. I really find it upsetting that so many think they have no influence and can do nothing to change their country!:mad: At least they can write (or email, or send a message some way) to their countries leaders. Yes if my senator only get my letter saying "Hey, I think we need to ****" then little will happen. But if the senator recieves a hundred messages then I promise you they know they must get some attention on this. Now lets put this in perspective. 100 letters from just my city alone (a small part of the state) is 100/500,000 is just 0.02% EGAD look how little of a segment actually has to be concerned for something to happen!:confused: 10 years ago one of my team members brother was a congressional aid. He passed on that if 6 personal letters were recieved in one month on a subject it was a major issue. That is what percentage! 0.001%! or less. Sorry you really got me going. Just a few individuals can make a difference, So are we/you/whatever going to sit back or just a few times a year take an hour and compose a letter that may change history and make the world a better place:rose:. Ok I feel a little better now. "I will find a new sig someday."
Yes It's similar here with members of Parliament. One office I know does the same thing with letters of protest. After a certain nymber on a topic they keep a special tally, and then actually canvas the electorate with a regular survey. (In some ways that is good) Organisations that send out form letters are counted and multiplied by a small factor, then general letters. Actually if I ever have any real concerns or suggestions for the Government of the day, I actually make an appointment to see my local member of parliament, and take up 10 minutes of his time. I do this at least once a year. :-) He has become receptive to me now, although I'm not a party member. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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I just watched The Majestic[^] and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think it was a bit confused in what it was trying to say, but overall worth watching. Anyway, this is not a film review :) What I want to know is; Was anyone here old enough during the Cold War to remember the witch hunts for communists within the USA? How bad was it? Were some basic American freedoms on a knife edge during that period? The movie touched on it but of course movies can be a touch dramatic at times, so want to hear it from "real" people :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaShog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
I've seen people interviewed about the witch hunts, and it was worse than you can imagine. Once someone was accused of being 'unamerican' that was it :~ Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?