Global warming 'confirmed' by independent study
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't lecture an M.D. on the effectiveness of a medical procedure
After all, every MD is infallible. :)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
He actually did make an allowance for spinal manipulations to treat lower back pain.
He did. Of course it works the whole spine, just that lower back pain is very common. Its also good for SI joints. (You could consider that lower back, but I doubt FistedChuff does). He also called vitamins crap, http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4061842/Re-Whoops-hold-on-yet-again.aspx[^], despite centuries of acceptance thw world over as not crap.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
e also called vitamins crap, http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4061842/Re-Whoops-hold-on-yet-again.aspx[^], despite centuries of acceptance thw world over as not crap.
Yes, and the latest studies suggest that multivitamin supplementation when not clinically deficient is associated with an increase in mortality. There's generally no reason to supplement someone young with a reasonably healthy diet, especially the kind of ridiculous micronutrient regimes quack doctors like to offer their patients. Older folks and people with gut problems or proven deficiency (through a blood test, not some bullshit) should get B12. People at risk of osteoporosis should get Vitamin D and calcium. Almost pregnant women should be supplemented because they're eating for two. That's about it. This is a perfect example of one of those cases where you're too ignorant to understand the nuances of what I'm saying - which is basically your entire problem when talking about scientific topics.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't lecture an M.D. on the effectiveness of a medical procedure
After all, every MD is infallible. :)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
He actually did make an allowance for spinal manipulations to treat lower back pain.
He did. Of course it works the whole spine, just that lower back pain is very common. Its also good for SI joints. (You could consider that lower back, but I doubt FistedChuff does). He also called vitamins crap, http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4061842/Re-Whoops-hold-on-yet-again.aspx[^], despite centuries of acceptance thw world over as not crap.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
He also called vitamins crap, http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4061842/Re-Whoops-hold-on-yet-again.aspx[^], despite centuries of acceptance thw world over as not crap.
Until they tested them using double-blind studies. My understanding is that they are basically ineffective.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
My understanding is that they are basically ineffective.
Vitamins? Really? Ever heard of the British Navy handing out lime juice to avert scurvy since what, 1750 or some such? How about rickets and Vitamine D deficciency? You must of heard of these surely.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
e also called vitamins crap, http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4061842/Re-Whoops-hold-on-yet-again.aspx[^], despite centuries of acceptance thw world over as not crap.
Yes, and the latest studies suggest that multivitamin supplementation when not clinically deficient is associated with an increase in mortality. There's generally no reason to supplement someone young with a reasonably healthy diet, especially the kind of ridiculous micronutrient regimes quack doctors like to offer their patients. Older folks and people with gut problems or proven deficiency (through a blood test, not some bullshit) should get B12. People at risk of osteoporosis should get Vitamin D and calcium. Almost pregnant women should be supplemented because they're eating for two. That's about it. This is a perfect example of one of those cases where you're too ignorant to understand the nuances of what I'm saying - which is basically your entire problem when talking about scientific topics.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
My understanding is that they are basically ineffective.
Vitamins? Really? Ever heard of the British Navy handing out lime juice to avert scurvy since what, 1750 or some such? How about rickets and Vitamine D deficciency? You must of heard of these surely.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Vitamins? Really?
Ever heard of the British Navy handing out lime juice to avert scurvy since what, 1750 or some such?How about rickets and Vitamine D deficciency? You must of heard of these surely.
Too little being bad does not imply that the more you have the greater the benefit. If you're not vitamin deficient, then vitamin supplements are at the very least pointless, and I've heard that in some cases they've even been implicated with a higher mortality rate.
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People haven't really been able to supplement vitamins for centuries since pills to do that have only been around since 1930 or so. Why do I waste my time arguing with you?
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You are so ignorant. The British Navy has been handing out lime juice to avert scurvy for centuries. You dont even know enought to argue a point you should know something about, provided you really are an MD and not some angry little twerp working in some lab for a drugs company. And then you make a fool of yourslef by making a stupid statement like this!
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Ascorbic acid, scurvy? Used for centuries. But no, according to mr know it all MD Fistedchuff thats all a lie! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Ascorbic acid, scurvy? Used for centuries.
But no, according to mr know it all MD Fistedchuff thats all a lie!Uh, I would've read what Fisticuffs actually said before responding with this. :~
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All about equally poorly effective. Congratulations, chiropractic: you perform about as poorly as six other less expensive things. None of which are narcotics, FYI. Back pain usually goes away on its own and people usually seek treatment at the greatest epoch of pain, leading quite easily to a fake treatment effect. Most of those people your parents "treated" got better because of a complicated placebo effect and a regression to the mean. I can guarantee they never actually treated any organic disease in the back by "adjusting" people. From the sum total of scientific studies on chiropractic and lower back manipulation (which itself is pretty scant), that's very clear.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Vitamins? Really?
Ever heard of the British Navy handing out lime juice to avert scurvy since what, 1750 or some such?How about rickets and Vitamine D deficciency? You must of heard of these surely.
Too little being bad does not imply that the more you have the greater the benefit. If you're not vitamin deficient, then vitamin supplements are at the very least pointless, and I've heard that in some cases they've even been implicated with a higher mortality rate.
Yeah of course, but calling them crap was Fistedchuffs statement, which clearly they are not, given Vitamin C's virtual mirraculous cure in the British Navy centuries ago. You know thats why the British are called Limeys? Because they were given lime juice?
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Ascorbic acid, scurvy? Used for centuries.
But no, according to mr know it all MD Fistedchuff thats all a lie!Uh, I would've read what Fisticuffs actually said before responding with this. :~
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Uh, I would've read what Fisticuffs actually said before responding with this
He called vitamins crapo, and then said they werent 'discovered' until 1925. (Discovered like some sort of lost land or something aparently...). No, they werent called vitamins untill 1825 but the existence and diseases caused by 'vitamin' deficiiency has been known about for centuries.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Uh, I would've read what Fisticuffs actually said before responding with this
He called vitamins crapo, and then said they werent 'discovered' until 1925. (Discovered like some sort of lost land or something aparently...). No, they werent called vitamins untill 1825 but the existence and diseases caused by 'vitamin' deficiiency has been known about for centuries.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
He called vitamins crapo, and then said they werent 'discovered' until 1925. (Discovered like some sort of lost land or something aparently...).
He said that vitamin pills weren't invented until around 1930.
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Yeah of course, but calling them crap was Fistedchuffs statement, which clearly they are not, given Vitamin C's virtual mirraculous cure in the British Navy centuries ago. You know thats why the British are called Limeys? Because they were given lime juice?
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Yeah of course, but calling them crap was Fistedchuffs statement, which clearly they are not, given Vitamin C's virtual mirraculous cure in the British Navy centuries ago. You know thats why the British are called Limeys? Because they were given lime juice?
. . . You're trying to explain to an M.D. the value of vitamins? The cure for a vitamin deficiency is something with that vitamin. They're NOT, as far as I know, the cure for anything else.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
He called vitamins crapo, and then said they werent 'discovered' until 1925. (Discovered like some sort of lost land or something aparently...).
He said that vitamin pills weren't invented until around 1930.
He said that to imply that before then people werent able to take extra vitamines thus refuting my statement that vitamins had been known about for centuries and had been used sucessfully to trreat scurvy refuting his argument that vitamins are crap. That is the train of his deranged arguing, if you are going to jump in half way, keep track of the whole thing. Of course he is also wrong, you can take vitamins through food in general. Is not lime juice a supliment? The British Navy used it expressly as that. Yest accordijng to Fistedchuff a supliment has to be a pill. Typical doctor, obsessed with his own superiority but actually intelectually limited and logically fallacious.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Yeah of course, but calling them crap was Fistedchuffs statement, which clearly they are not, given Vitamin C's virtual mirraculous cure in the British Navy centuries ago. You know thats why the British are called Limeys? Because they were given lime juice?
. . . You're trying to explain to an M.D. the value of vitamins? The cure for a vitamin deficiency is something with that vitamin. They're NOT, as far as I know, the cure for anything else.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
They're NOT, as far as I know, the cure for anything else.
Who the fuck said they are? He called them crap, I pointed out his stupidity. (Oh, you know that many mass produced vegetables have less nutrients than organically grown ones? No doubt the utter basic fact of that, which can be proved through chemical analysis, will be denied by Fistedchuff no doubt) Anyway, I am off for a coffe down at the cafe,. back in 40... :)
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
They're NOT, as far as I know, the cure for anything else.
Who the fuck said they are? He called them crap, I pointed out his stupidity. (Oh, you know that many mass produced vegetables have less nutrients than organically grown ones? No doubt the utter basic fact of that, which can be proved through chemical analysis, will be denied by Fistedchuff no doubt) Anyway, I am off for a coffe down at the cafe,. back in 40... :)
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Who the f*** said they are? He called them crap, I pointed out his stupidity.
That's a very unsophisticated attempt at understanding what he said. When a chiropractor sells vitamins to a patient for something other than vitamin deficiency, chiropractic is garbage.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
(Oh, you know that many mass produced vegetables have less nutrients than organically grown ones? No doubt the utter basic fact of that, which can be proved through chemical analysis, will be denied by Fistedchuff no doubt)
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I doubt it. It's a purely empirical claim, and if I know the mind of Fisticuffs at all it is that he would avoid saying that if he didn't know it for sure. If my memory serves me, which it rarely does, so I could be completely wrong about this, but I seem to recall that Fisticuffs was a biochemist or some such at one point.
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He said that to imply that before then people werent able to take extra vitamines thus refuting my statement that vitamins had been known about for centuries and had been used sucessfully to trreat scurvy refuting his argument that vitamins are crap. That is the train of his deranged arguing, if you are going to jump in half way, keep track of the whole thing. Of course he is also wrong, you can take vitamins through food in general. Is not lime juice a supliment? The British Navy used it expressly as that. Yest accordijng to Fistedchuff a supliment has to be a pill. Typical doctor, obsessed with his own superiority but actually intelectually limited and logically fallacious.
============================== Nothing to say.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
He said that to imply that before then people werent able to take extra vitamines thus refuting my statement that vitamins had been known about for centuries and had been used sucessfully to trreat scurvy refuting his argument that vitamins are crap.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
That is the train of his deranged arguing, if you are going to jump in half way, keep track of the whole thing.
I actually have read the whole thing. To be perfectly blunt, Fisticuffs has handed your arse to you.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Who the f*** said they are? He called them crap, I pointed out his stupidity.
That's a very unsophisticated attempt at understanding what he said. When a chiropractor sells vitamins to a patient for something other than vitamin deficiency, chiropractic is garbage.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
(Oh, you know that many mass produced vegetables have less nutrients than organically grown ones? No doubt the utter basic fact of that, which can be proved through chemical analysis, will be denied by Fistedchuff no doubt)
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I doubt it. It's a purely empirical claim, and if I know the mind of Fisticuffs at all it is that he would avoid saying that if he didn't know it for sure. If my memory serves me, which it rarely does, so I could be completely wrong about this, but I seem to recall that Fisticuffs was a biochemist or some such at one point.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
When a chiropractor sells vitamins to a patient for something other than vitamin deficiency, chiropractic is garbage.
When a doctor recomends more expensive medcines because he gets a kick back from a particular medical company, and the tax payer foots the bill, what is that doctor? (And yes, that has happened).
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
It's a purely empirical claim
Yes, it actually has hard evidence, so how can you doubt it?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Fisticuffs was a biochemist or some such at one point.
Who knows, this is the internet, he hides, as do all of us, behind a persona. :)
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
He said that to imply that before then people werent able to take extra vitamines thus refuting my statement that vitamins had been known about for centuries and had been used sucessfully to trreat scurvy refuting his argument that vitamins are crap.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
That is the train of his deranged arguing, if you are going to jump in half way, keep track of the whole thing.
I actually have read the whole thing. To be perfectly blunt, Fisticuffs has handed your arse to you.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
When a chiropractor sells vitamins to a patient for something other than vitamin deficiency, chiropractic is garbage.
When a doctor recomends more expensive medcines because he gets a kick back from a particular medical company, and the tax payer foots the bill, what is that doctor? (And yes, that has happened).
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
It's a purely empirical claim
Yes, it actually has hard evidence, so how can you doubt it?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Fisticuffs was a biochemist or some such at one point.
Who knows, this is the internet, he hides, as do all of us, behind a persona. :)
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
When a doctor recomends more expensive medcines because he gets a kick back from a particular medical company, and the tax payer foots the bill, what is that doctor?
Irrelevant to the argument?
Erudite__Eric wrote:
Yes, it actually has hard evidence, so how can you doubt it?
:confused:
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Give up eh?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
To be perfectly blunt, Fisticuffs has handed your arse to you.
Only if you choose to ingore facts.
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Erudite__Eric wrote:
Give up eh?
No, it was just a very difficult sentence to parse. It was long after I posted that I understood it.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
Only if you choose to ingore facts.
The fact being that sailors were given a diet that contains vitamin C...?
