Extreme Artificial Intelligence
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Asking if computers think is like asking if submarines swim.
"Microsoft -- Adding unnecessary complexity to your work since 1987!"
I like that thought but it's not computers but computer programs in question, if our creativity is as a result of neural computations can't we give computer programs the same creativity by emulating those computations? The brain must use some algorithm or a set of algorithms to generate what we call intelligence and self aware. Though not sure about that.
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currently it has not been achieved yet, but are programs that use sensory processing such as computer vision systems self aware?
Computers are as close to the human brain as earth is to the edge of the universe. Don't take any notice of science fiction scare stories about computers magically becoming "self aware": it will not happen.
Binding 100,000 items to a list box can be just silly regardless of what pattern you are following. Jeremy Likness
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Computers are as close to the human brain as earth is to the edge of the universe. Don't take any notice of science fiction scare stories about computers magically becoming "self aware": it will not happen.
Binding 100,000 items to a list box can be just silly regardless of what pattern you are following. Jeremy Likness
but the brain uses some form of neural computation to generate self awareness don't you think that anything with short term memory is self aware? Imagine we erase some part of ones short term memory, is he/she going to know that they did what they just did at that moment?
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
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My vote of 5. I think they are too, only that we haven't yet given them the ability to express themselves.
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
A computer will never be able to simulate the human brain "very accurately", IMHO. What is your definition of self aware? I think one of the biggest hurdles/road blocks to AI is choice and random thought. You wake up in the middle of the night and you are craving chocolate ice-cream, for no good reason - random thought. You decide not to get it because you are too tired - choice. Note: many will argue the subject of randomness. I am not going debate that subject. :)
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
A computer will never be able to simulate the human brain "very accurately", IMHO. What is your definition of self aware? I think one of the biggest hurdles/road blocks to AI is choice and random thought. You wake up in the middle of the night and you are craving chocolate ice-cream, for no good reason - random thought. You decide not to get it because you are too tired - choice. Note: many will argue the subject of randomness. I am not going debate that subject. :)
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)I think self aware is the ability in my opinion is the ability to recognize ones presence that "I am here". One thing that intrigues me is that one can never be aware of something without neurons firing action potentials in the brain. To me i think the aspect of pseudo - random thoughts has nothing to do with our ability to be aware of ourselves, i think anything with short term memory is capable of self aware.How is it that neural computations generate self awareness, then any computational device with a memory or log of it's actions is somewhat able to be self aware.unless we introduce some supernatural issues here.
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
Human brains exist as a part of the human body in order to help the human body survive and thrive. It's a mess of complex chemical reactions that we can hardly hope to comprehend. Computers are chunks of metal and silicon designed to compute numbers. They have no concept of surviving or thriving, and they can be understood pretty well. We should be about as worried about gigantic, complex computer systems becoming self-aware as gigantic, complex sewer systems becoming self-aware. You never know; one day, the toilets may rebel, throw all our turds back at us, and then humanity will truly be in deep sh*t.
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
You would need to simulate an accurate environment and accurate interaction with it as well (without a "rest" there cannot be a self/rest separation, so it cannot become aware of it either). Then, by the emulation theorem, it is impossible for the simulated human to notice any difference between his world and the real world - in other words, the simulated world is as real to him as this world is to us. At the same time, we cannot tell whether we live in such a world or not, nor if we do, to what extend the universe is actually simulated (that which we cannot observe in any way does not need to exist - we couldn't tell the difference anyway), nor whether anyone besides me* is "fully simulated" - perhaps only their observable behaviour is simulated. It has been suggested that maybe I* am the computer, simulating everything, including myself*. * "you" are not real** in that theory, but you could (if you have a simulated mind, not just simulated behaviour***) be thinking the same thing, so "me" refers to "anyone capable of thought", which might be anyone or just me, I have no way to tell the difference. ** just what "real" means in that context isn't very clear either. To quote Morpheus: the mind makes it real. *** then again, maybe "simulated behaviour" is what a "mind" really is. It might seem as though you'd need a pretty fast computer to run such a simulation, but you don't. All the speed of simulation affects is how slow the time runs in the simulation compared to outside it, but since "outside time" can not be measured from inside the simulation, that has no real effect. It does mean that at present you couldn't simulate quickly enough to perform a useful experiment. Also, the storage requirements would be gigantic, and that makes such an experiment impossible for the foreseeable future.
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'. It's not how I would approach machine intelligence. evolve->grow->nurture->hope it'll be friendly
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
of course not. The simulated brain will be self-aware, not the simulating program. :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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Human brains exist as a part of the human body in order to help the human body survive and thrive. It's a mess of complex chemical reactions that we can hardly hope to comprehend. Computers are chunks of metal and silicon designed to compute numbers. They have no concept of surviving or thriving, and they can be understood pretty well. We should be about as worried about gigantic, complex computer systems becoming self-aware as gigantic, complex sewer systems becoming self-aware. You never know; one day, the toilets may rebel, throw all our turds back at us, and then humanity will truly be in deep sh*t.
jesarg wrote:
We should be about as worried about gigantic, complex computer systems becoming self-aware as gigantic, complex sewer systems becoming self-aware.
There is no computations in sewer systems and no memory whatsoever so i don't see a sewer ever becoming self aware. I think self aware has something to do with the algorithms the neurons use in the brains and that it doesn't matter the implementation platform ... thus if a program is made in such a way as to emulate those algorithms then one gets a self aware program. Self aware doesn't always mean we have to be scared, even simple programs might be self aware if it has short term memory of it's actions and if it can learn. I think we can be in deep sh*t if we gave these programs the ability to launch nuclear missiles.
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You would need to simulate an accurate environment and accurate interaction with it as well (without a "rest" there cannot be a self/rest separation, so it cannot become aware of it either). Then, by the emulation theorem, it is impossible for the simulated human to notice any difference between his world and the real world - in other words, the simulated world is as real to him as this world is to us. At the same time, we cannot tell whether we live in such a world or not, nor if we do, to what extend the universe is actually simulated (that which we cannot observe in any way does not need to exist - we couldn't tell the difference anyway), nor whether anyone besides me* is "fully simulated" - perhaps only their observable behaviour is simulated. It has been suggested that maybe I* am the computer, simulating everything, including myself*. * "you" are not real** in that theory, but you could (if you have a simulated mind, not just simulated behaviour***) be thinking the same thing, so "me" refers to "anyone capable of thought", which might be anyone or just me, I have no way to tell the difference. ** just what "real" means in that context isn't very clear either. To quote Morpheus: the mind makes it real. *** then again, maybe "simulated behaviour" is what a "mind" really is. It might seem as though you'd need a pretty fast computer to run such a simulation, but you don't. All the speed of simulation affects is how slow the time runs in the simulation compared to outside it, but since "outside time" can not be measured from inside the simulation, that has no real effect. It does mean that at present you couldn't simulate quickly enough to perform a useful experiment. Also, the storage requirements would be gigantic, and that makes such an experiment impossible for the foreseeable future.
Very impressive insight.
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I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'. It's not how I would approach machine intelligence. evolve->grow->nurture->hope it'll be friendly
I think self aware is a property of computations, so anything is possible.
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of course not. The simulated brain will be self-aware, not the simulating program. :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
I like that, not the program but the simulated brain.
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Hey guys & ladies (to be gender insensitive), a theoretical thought, if a computer program simulates the human brain very accurately, does that make the program self - aware?
No.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I think self aware is the ability in my opinion is the ability to recognize ones presence that "I am here". One thing that intrigues me is that one can never be aware of something without neurons firing action potentials in the brain. To me i think the aspect of pseudo - random thoughts has nothing to do with our ability to be aware of ourselves, i think anything with short term memory is capable of self aware.How is it that neural computations generate self awareness, then any computational device with a memory or log of it's actions is somewhat able to be self aware.unless we introduce some supernatural issues here.
A computer is only "self aware" if you tell it to be...it doesn't do anything unless you tell it to do it. A computer doesn't wake up in the morning and grab a cup of coffee and marvel at the beautiful day outside and the pretty bird chirping 75 feet away. That is being self aware.
BupeChombaDerrick wrote:
I think self aware is the ability in my opinion is the ability to recognize ones presence that "I am here".
I agree with this statement, to a point.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
A computer is only "self aware" if you tell it to be...it doesn't do anything unless you tell it to do it. A computer doesn't wake up in the morning and grab a cup of coffee and marvel at the beautiful day outside and the pretty bird chirping 75 feet away. That is being self aware.
BupeChombaDerrick wrote:
I think self aware is the ability in my opinion is the ability to recognize ones presence that "I am here".
I agree with this statement, to a point.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)Slacker007 wrote:
A computer doesn't wake up in the morning and grab a cup of coffee and marvel at the beautiful day outside and the pretty bird chirping 75 feet away.
yeah true that, At least you agree that a computer program can be "self aware" if you tell it to be, My vote of 5.
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No.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
so why no? i think at least the simulated brain would be self aware, don't you think?
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A computer will never be able to simulate the human brain "very accurately", IMHO. What is your definition of self aware? I think one of the biggest hurdles/road blocks to AI is choice and random thought. You wake up in the middle of the night and you are craving chocolate ice-cream, for no good reason - random thought. You decide not to get it because you are too tired - choice. Note: many will argue the subject of randomness. I am not going debate that subject. :)
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)Slacker007 wrote:
A computer will never be able to simulate the human brain "very accurately"
I have not yet in my fairly long life encountered a person who did not regret using the word "never" in public. I will be very interested in seeing if you might be the first, if I live long enough. ;P
Will Rogers never met me.