Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button
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Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb Site -
Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
Quote:
Microsoft's Chaitanya Sareen explains that the company has witnessed a "trend" towards using the new taskbar as a way to simply launch applications rather than navigating to links within the Start menu
You mean Microsoft is seeing the behavioural changes from users as more and more people move to a Mac and get used to the Docking Bar? Well, I guess this will be a self-fulfilling prophesy then.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteI think the "telemetry data" is more "what is Apple doing", rather than what are the users doing. I'm a fan of Microsoft (don't hate me), but they seem to think innovation is doing what Apple did years ago in a slightly crappier way. Apps that use the full screen as a revolutionary new interface? Yeah, I have that already on my Mac. Hot corners to perform actions? Yeah, I've got that on my Mac (and I can select what they do and which corner they use). $40 upgrade price? Mountain Lion will cost $20 and I can use it to upgrade all of my machines for that one cost. Despite all of this, I really am hoping Microsoft pulls off some of these changes. I think Windows 9 (yeah, not a typo) will probably be a good OS if they do.
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteIn Release preview, the problem was fix by having a small corner where the mouse is confined. Thus it is much better... But they still have a lot to do to improve the UI design to give more direct access to some things.
Philippe Mori
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Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
OK but that still makes very little sense. People are using the taskbar with pinned items more? Ok nice. But you're not going to put all your programs there, or pretty soon you'll have to upgrade your monitor because "your computer is full". So ok they "give" us a menu (nevermind that we already had it) to solve that problem, but then they hide it. Why? The start orb wasn't taking up so much screen real estate that is was a problem.
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteMarc Clifton wrote:
What am I, I f***ing machine? X|
No, a machine would be easier to reconfigure to enjoy the new UI. It would be just a very simple script set to run during your morning boot. Not sure if W8 does that, but even wiht a central monitor, the corners can be made to "catch" the mouse by adding little virtual nubs where the mouse doesn't cross to the other screen.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
I think the "telemetry data" is more "what is Apple doing", rather than what are the users doing. I'm a fan of Microsoft (don't hate me), but they seem to think innovation is doing what Apple did years ago in a slightly crappier way. Apps that use the full screen as a revolutionary new interface? Yeah, I have that already on my Mac. Hot corners to perform actions? Yeah, I've got that on my Mac (and I can select what they do and which corner they use). $40 upgrade price? Mountain Lion will cost $20 and I can use it to upgrade all of my machines for that one cost. Despite all of this, I really am hoping Microsoft pulls off some of these changes. I think Windows 9 (yeah, not a typo) will probably be a good OS if they do.
Tim Corey wrote:
I think the "telemetry data" is more "what is Apple doing"
Really not fair. Apple was "what Steve said" (and that worked well, in a way). In comparison, Microsoft does a lot of UI testing and feedback analysis. (they even have a blog that I can't find anymore :( ) Certainly, there are some major blunders: they ignored how polarizing Ribbons would be (and that they aren't the only solution to their problem), or the grey-in-grey all-caps-title Visual Studio. But you have to look at it this way: If no one notices, they did their job perfectly.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
Marc Clifton wrote:
What am I, I f***ing machine? X|
No, a machine would be easier to reconfigure to enjoy the new UI. It would be just a very simple script set to run during your morning boot. Not sure if W8 does that, but even wiht a central monitor, the corners can be made to "catch" the mouse by adding little virtual nubs where the mouse doesn't cross to the other screen.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchypeterchen wrote:
No, a machine would be easier to reconfigure to enjoy the new UI. It would be just a very simple script set to run during your morning boot.
Aye, sometimes I wish life were that simple. Narcissistic gf? No problem! Just reconfigure my OS with a simple script to enjoy the new UI! ;P Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb Site -
A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteI worked on a system that created a "hot corner" on Windows XP once. I still have flashbacks from time to time when I realize that my mouse is in the lower right-hand corner of the display. I experience a moment of panic as I wait for supposedly user-friendly things involving gigantic "topmost" windows to happen... :doh:.
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteMarc Clifton wrote:
What am I, I f***ing machine?
Yes, the human being can be considered an electrochemical android, essentially.
Sincerely Yours, Brian Hart
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Marc Clifton wrote:
What am I, I f***ing machine?
Yes, the human being can be considered an electrochemical android, essentially.
Sincerely Yours, Brian Hart
Brian C Hart wrote:
Yes, the human being can be considered an electrochemical android, essentially.
Heh, not in my book. :) Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb Site -
Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
Hmm. I'm "still" on WinXP and I suspect it may be the last operating system I ever use; once this machine dies I guess my IT life will go with it. It's been a while since I actually clicked the start button (why click when Ctrl-Esc does the job and your hands are on the keyboard anyway? Is it stupid of me to assume that they have't got rid of the keyboard shortcut too?) My Start menu currently has over 200 shortcuts on it, but in an organised, structured system, nothing more than 4 levels deep (even that's too much, really). But it's quick and easy to navigate and I know what's where. I can navigate it using the keyboard (once I changed all the MS Office menu names back to Access, Word, Excel from the stupid "Microsoft Access", "Microsoft Word", "Microsoft Excel" etc introduced in Office2003 which rendered keyboard shortcuts useless...) Are MS really suggesting I pin over 200 shortcuts to my task bar (including the ones I only use once a year but know where they are when I need them)?? And what precisely is a "charm"? Is it some sort of carry-over from computer gaming where, if I use it in the right way, I might unlock some vital bit of functionality?? FFS, I'm an IT professional, I need to control and manage my system, not cross my fingers and hope for good luck to achieve what I'm being paid to do. I've said it before, but the rot set in when they replaced File MANAGER (where the user MANAGED his system) with Windows EXPLORER (where the user was left to wander about in the hope of finding his/her way through a jungle of impenetrable folders that may or may not be where they say they are...) Windows (did) work. WTF are they doing mucking about with it just so that it's "cool" for the next couple of weeks? Does nobody LEARN from the past any more? :wtf: :(( :( :confused: :(( :( :confused: :(( :wtf:
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Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
I think that it was unnecessary to remove the Start button, but i aggre that removing the Start Menu and replacing it with the Start Page was a good choice, althought i believe they must have implemented it as a more direct replacement of the Start Menu (yep, with folders or categories and all), because, sometimes, not everything i install ends in that page (for example configuration files, or help files), and not everything i install is needed in that page, a lot of unnecessary and disorganized apps lie at the end of it and i need to organize it to make them useful.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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Marc Clifton wrote:
What am I, I f***ing machine? X|
No, a machine would be easier to reconfigure to enjoy the new UI. It would be just a very simple script set to run during your morning boot. Not sure if W8 does that, but even wiht a central monitor, the corners can be made to "catch" the mouse by adding little virtual nubs where the mouse doesn't cross to the other screen.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchynot sure why the down vote, i enjoyed your message, so i'm going to give you a 5... if we were machines, a simple script would give some humor sense to those people ...
I'm brazilian and english (well, human languages in general) aren't my best skill, so, sorry by my english. (if you want we can speak in C# or VB.Net =p)
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteMarc Clifton wrote:
Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor.
Or you could just press the Windows key on your keyboard.
Marc Clifton wrote:
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X|
SQM data (also known as CEIP[^]. :-D
Mike Poz
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A hot corner has replaced the Start button orb in the lower left of the screen, while hot corners on the right-hand side reveal a new charms menu that includes a Windows button to navigate to the Start Screen. Oh, that's just lovely. My main desktop is my central monitor, with a monitor on the left, and one on the right. Which of course will mean I will either have to move the mouse across potentially two monitors depending on which "corner" I want, or, worse, have to precisely navigate the mouse to the hotspot on the central monitor. Either way, it sounds like yet another "nobody really thinks" scenarios of bad UI design. Weren't invisible hotspots thrown out years ago? X|
Farhan Ghumra wrote:
has revealed that telemetry data
WTF. "telemetry data"? As in, "user feedback?" What am I, I f***ing machine? X| Marc
My Blog
The Relationship Oriented Programming IDE
Melody's Amazon Herb SiteYa'know when you install something like Visual Studio or SQl Management etc, at the last step they ask if you want to take part in the "Product Improvement Program" where it automatically send anonymous data about your usage. That's the telemetry data.
Truth, James
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I think that it was unnecessary to remove the Start button, but i aggre that removing the Start Menu and replacing it with the Start Page was a good choice, althought i believe they must have implemented it as a more direct replacement of the Start Menu (yep, with folders or categories and all), because, sometimes, not everything i install ends in that page (for example configuration files, or help files), and not everything i install is needed in that page, a lot of unnecessary and disorganized apps lie at the end of it and i need to organize it to make them useful.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
Right-click on an empty area of the start screen, and click the "All Items" button that appears at the bottom. I discovered that on accident when I was looking for the same thing. Which is a major part of the problem I've had with Win8. In their quest for "simplifying" the screen, they've eliminated so many visual cues as to where things are, that I've found many of them "by accident". There's an excellent video floating around on YouTube where a guy showed his father Windows 8 (Customer Preview), and he spent 20 minutes looking for the "Start Button". There's nothing on the screen that tells you that you need to move your mouse to the lower left to bring up the start menu. There's nothing telling you that you need to right-click on an empty area of a web page to bring up the Metro version of Internet Explorer's tab menu, address bar, etc. There's nothing showing you that you *can* snap windows side-by-side, let alone *how*. Besides that, I may be comfortable experimenting with the system to see what it can do and how it works, but (1) I'd rather spend my time *doing* instead of trying to figure out *how* to do, and (2) my mother certainly won't be, and will be very confused as to how to do things (even if they have a "tutorial" when the OS first starts, do you think anyone is going to remember everything it has to teach?).
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Right-click on an empty area of the start screen, and click the "All Items" button that appears at the bottom. I discovered that on accident when I was looking for the same thing. Which is a major part of the problem I've had with Win8. In their quest for "simplifying" the screen, they've eliminated so many visual cues as to where things are, that I've found many of them "by accident". There's an excellent video floating around on YouTube where a guy showed his father Windows 8 (Customer Preview), and he spent 20 minutes looking for the "Start Button". There's nothing on the screen that tells you that you need to move your mouse to the lower left to bring up the start menu. There's nothing telling you that you need to right-click on an empty area of a web page to bring up the Metro version of Internet Explorer's tab menu, address bar, etc. There's nothing showing you that you *can* snap windows side-by-side, let alone *how*. Besides that, I may be comfortable experimenting with the system to see what it can do and how it works, but (1) I'd rather spend my time *doing* instead of trying to figure out *how* to do, and (2) my mother certainly won't be, and will be very confused as to how to do things (even if they have a "tutorial" when the OS first starts, do you think anyone is going to remember everything it has to teach?).
Thanks, for the hint, my only gripe with the Start page right now is that it automatically puts there every program i install without order or logic there. :) Regarding the video, i've seen it and it remarks very well that changes like that without proper training (or tutorials) can be disorienting at first, my own experience: i found pretty frustating in the Developer Preview the way the "Start button" worked and i wasn't able to hit it properly in the first week, after that i accostumbred to it. Also there is another video, i believe is in one of the Windows blogs, but i don't remember exactly where, that shows a user testing Windows 95, and is pretty much the same history.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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Tim Corey wrote:
I think the "telemetry data" is more "what is Apple doing"
Really not fair. Apple was "what Steve said" (and that worked well, in a way). In comparison, Microsoft does a lot of UI testing and feedback analysis. (they even have a blog that I can't find anymore :( ) Certainly, there are some major blunders: they ignored how polarizing Ribbons would be (and that they aren't the only solution to their problem), or the grey-in-grey all-caps-title Visual Studio. But you have to look at it this way: If no one notices, they did their job perfectly.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchyThen you should read the article in the "CodeProject" newsletter, "The Codeless Code - Koans for the Software Engineer" - "Microsoft’s Downfall: Inside the Executive E-mails and Cannibalistic Culture That Felled a Tech Giant" - http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer . The "Start" button appears to be more of the same.
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Microsoft explains why it killed the Windows 8 Start button[^]
Microsoft removed the Start button from Windows 8's Consumer Preview version earlier this year, generating a lot of discussion and mixed reaction over a user interface element that was first introduced in Windows over 15 years ago. In an interview with PC Pro, the company has revealed that telemetry data was a big part of the decision to scrap the Start button and traditional Start menu in Windows 8.
Windows 8 Metro Style App Developer Silverlight Developer My Blog on Windows 8
I have really mixed feelings about it... I really like Win 7, even with the changes that made a few things more difficult (security). I have a Windows phone and love it, so I was really looking forward to Win 8. I have a home built Media Machine for my auto. It uses a 7" touch screen 1024x768 resolution. My media machine currently uses XP and will probably be using XP until it dies of old age. Here's why... I installed a fresh drive and Win 8 Release Preview. After some playing I was able to get the touch screen drivers to work, kind of. I realize this is the fault of the screen and/or driver, but gestures don't work. The screen is so small that trying to do anything with your finger other than launching an app on the metro screen is impossible: the scroll bar at the bottom of the metro screen is very difficult and getting the cursor into either hot-spot cannot be done. So I tried using it with a stylus, which won't work well in a vehicle by the way (think bumpy road). The scroll bar can be used, but I still can't get to the left-hotspot. For this application, Win 8 will not work at all, unless I 'hide windows' with an all encompassing user application. Then it doesn't matter what the OS is. Before removing the Win 8 drive and replacing it with the original XP drive, I tested it with a desktop monitor, keyboard and trackball. It took a little getting used to, which I expected. The extra clicks to do some things when using the desktop is annoying. other than that I liked the desktop experience. I have no opinion on using it on a tablet because i haven't tried it. My 2 cents.
