Is Windows 8 too radical for you?
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i havent read much but is it true Metro apps runs on WinRT API and WPF/.NET all considered obsolete? Read this?[^]
dev
devvvy wrote:
but is it true Metro apps runs on WinRT API and WPF/.NET all considered obsolete?
No. You can still run WPF/.NET apps on Windows 8. Where you get some confusion is in what you can run on Windows 8 running on ARM processors.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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devvvy wrote:
but is it true Metro apps runs on WinRT API and WPF/.NET all considered obsolete?
No. You can still run WPF/.NET apps on Windows 8. Where you get some confusion is in what you can run on Windows 8 running on ARM processors.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
From wikipedia:
Quote:
Limitations Only software written using the Windows Runtime (Metro style apps) can be used on Windows RT with the exception of Microsoft Office 2013 and the desktop version of Internet Explorer 10. Developers will not be able to create applications to run on Windows RT using the Win32 APIs.[10]
Eusebiu
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From wikipedia:
Quote:
Limitations Only software written using the Windows Runtime (Metro style apps) can be used on Windows RT with the exception of Microsoft Office 2013 and the desktop version of Internet Explorer 10. Developers will not be able to create applications to run on Windows RT using the Win32 APIs.[10]
Eusebiu
Now read what I actually answered, not what you think I answered. Did I state WinRT, or did I state Windows 8? WPF and .NET both happily run on Windows 8. Oh, and Wikipedia isn't always correct - something to remember before you quote from it.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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The operating system's Metro interface is almost sure to cause a surge in calls to the enterprise help desk as users contend with tiles where the familiar 'Start' button and 'Explorer' icon used to be. ---------------- With a host of new tools and capabilities--such as Secure Boot, Windows To Go and greatly improved file management--Windows 8 may have broad appeal in a variety of businesses.
I like Windows 8 just fine. Give it some time and you might like it too.
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Now read what I actually answered, not what you think I answered. Did I state WinRT, or did I state Windows 8? WPF and .NET both happily run on Windows 8. Oh, and Wikipedia isn't always correct - something to remember before you quote from it.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Dude, Windows 8 has four editions; Windows 8 RT (if you like, WinRT) one edition of Windows 8. So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development. ;) In this case, Wikipedia is correct. And I did not say that Wikipedia is always correct - you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct (which is not true).
Eusebiu
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Dude, Windows 8 has four editions; Windows 8 RT (if you like, WinRT) one edition of Windows 8. So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development. ;) In this case, Wikipedia is correct. And I did not say that Wikipedia is always correct - you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct (which is not true).
Eusebiu
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct
No I didn't. I just pointed out that quoting Wikipedia isn't always a guarantee of reliability.
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
Dude
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development.
Again, no I don't. Read what I put again. I merely stated that you can run WPF and .NET apps on Windows 8 so the skills aren't dead. There's a reason I mentioned the ARM processor - and that's because that's the one environment where you can't run them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct
No I didn't. I just pointed out that quoting Wikipedia isn't always a guarantee of reliability.
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
Dude
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development.
Again, no I don't. Read what I put again. I merely stated that you can run WPF and .NET apps on Windows 8 so the skills aren't dead. There's a reason I mentioned the ARM processor - and that's because that's the one environment where you can't run them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Sorry for the "dude". For the rest... whatever!
Eusebiu
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The operating system's Metro interface is almost sure to cause a surge in calls to the enterprise help desk as users contend with tiles where the familiar 'Start' button and 'Explorer' icon used to be. ---------------- With a host of new tools and capabilities--such as Secure Boot, Windows To Go and greatly improved file management--Windows 8 may have broad appeal in a variety of businesses.
I like Windows 8 just fine. Give it some time and you might like it too.
In my times we used the command line and we didn't care about flashy "GUIs" that just distract people from their job... :) Seriously, i like the new Windows 8, it seems modern and fresh, what i dislike is the disaster they made with the API, if you come from Win32 you won't find it familiar, if you come from .NET you won't find it famaliar either, i would have prefered that they stick with .NET and just add Async calls to their methods and block the non Async calls in Modern UI Apps, but whatever, compatibility APIs, may be a good bussiness for me.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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The operating system's Metro interface is almost sure to cause a surge in calls to the enterprise help desk as users contend with tiles where the familiar 'Start' button and 'Explorer' icon used to be. ---------------- With a host of new tools and capabilities--such as Secure Boot, Windows To Go and greatly improved file management--Windows 8 may have broad appeal in a variety of businesses.
I like Windows 8 just fine. Give it some time and you might like it too.
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GeekForChrist wrote:
Give it some time and you might like it too.
Some prisoners find that after many years that they prefer prison to the rest of the world. However myself I don't see that as being an effective argument for being in prison.
jschell wrote:
Some prisoners find that after many years that they prefer prison to the rest of the world. However myself I don't see that as being an effective argument for being in prison.
I see your point and I agree with it. :thumbsup: And if someone would get me out of prison (aka: buy me a Mac), I would be willing to try life outside of prison. ;)
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From wikipedia:
Quote:
Limitations Only software written using the Windows Runtime (Metro style apps) can be used on Windows RT with the exception of Microsoft Office 2013 and the desktop version of Internet Explorer 10. Developers will not be able to create applications to run on Windows RT using the Win32 APIs.[10]
Eusebiu
You can absolutely write WPF/C#/.Net apps, in fact the Windows Runtime (henceforth WinRT) is just a COM based wrapper around exiting APIs already present in Win32 and the .Net framework and apps can be made in C# or C++ with UIs built in XAML (also in HTML/JS). There is also a set of APIs that are "whitelisted" that are present in the Win32 APIs but are not present in WinRT, that can still be included in store apps and work on Windows RT systems. So your investment in WPF didn't get obsoleted, it just went multiprocessor.
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Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct
No I didn't. I just pointed out that quoting Wikipedia isn't always a guarantee of reliability.
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
Dude
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development.
Again, no I don't. Read what I put again. I merely stated that you can run WPF and .NET apps on Windows 8 so the skills aren't dead. There's a reason I mentioned the ARM processor - and that's because that's the one environment where you can't run them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
I was about to say I'm a middle aged white man from the US. and I think I do qualify as "dude". Then I remembered when I was 25, declared I was middle aged and when asked why, said the current life expectency is 75, so 0-25 is youth, 25-50 is middle aged, 50-75 is old age and anything beyond is bonus time. Using that criteria, I've been old for nearly a decade, but still think its OK to call me dude. Then there is the definition of dude as someone who is inexperienced and naive. (IE Dude Ranch) I didn't even think to take it that way. So, being from the UK, you're too staid and stuffy to be a dude? Or are you too old? (The Great Wobowski would disagree with that one.) That kind of reminded me of the song that goes "when you only live a hundred years..." When I first heard that, I thought "You're a singer, what makes you think you'll pass 40?" along with the documented cases of people going past 110. What does age have to do with your "dude"ness?
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GeekForChrist wrote:
I like Windows 8 just fine. Give it some time and you might like it too
I can't stand it. What I can't stand most is that, at its core it's an excellent OS. Security, the tweaks like the resource manager, file copies, the underlying security, and the general stability is excellent. A far more stable and flexible OS than iOS, and I use both. The split of the UI, however, is so clumsily done that the fall is the worse for it being on something that should be so much better. I used to go back to iOS and complain about dumb things like having to eject USB storage, or not being able to shake a window and have all other windows collapse, or the stupidness of the "+" sign on iTunes minimising it. Now I no longer complain. Now I just stay quiet and sad.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
I can't stand it. What I can't stand most is that, at its core it's an excellent OS. Security, the tweaks like the resource manager, file copies, the underlying security, and the general stability is excellent. A far more stable and flexible OS than iOS, and I use both.
The split of the UI, however, is so clumsily done that the fall is the worse for it being on something that should be so much better. I used to go back to iOS and complain about dumb things like having to eject USB storage, or not being able to shake a window and have all other windows collapse, or the stupidness of the "+" sign on iTunes minimising it. Now I no longer complain. Now I just stay quiet and sad.I couldn't have said it better myself.
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You can absolutely write WPF/C#/.Net apps, in fact the Windows Runtime (henceforth WinRT) is just a COM based wrapper around exiting APIs already present in Win32 and the .Net framework and apps can be made in C# or C++ with UIs built in XAML (also in HTML/JS). There is also a set of APIs that are "whitelisted" that are present in the Win32 APIs but are not present in WinRT, that can still be included in store apps and work on Windows RT systems. So your investment in WPF didn't get obsoleted, it just went multiprocessor.
Yes I know WPF will run on Windows 8 - but is it considered obsolete that Metro is the new and upcoming and all new candies will be allocated to Metro and not WPF? Remember Winform > WPF > Metro evolution? When WPF came out all of sudden seems like Winform no longer cool or funky, like a piece of old technology ready to be spitted out even by Microsoft itself
dev
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
I was about to say I'm a middle aged white man from the US. and I think I do qualify as "dude". Then I remembered when I was 25, declared I was middle aged and when asked why, said the current life expectency is 75, so 0-25 is youth, 25-50 is middle aged, 50-75 is old age and anything beyond is bonus time. Using that criteria, I've been old for nearly a decade, but still think its OK to call me dude. Then there is the definition of dude as someone who is inexperienced and naive. (IE Dude Ranch) I didn't even think to take it that way. So, being from the UK, you're too staid and stuffy to be a dude? Or are you too old? (The Great Wobowski would disagree with that one.) That kind of reminded me of the song that goes "when you only live a hundred years..." When I first heard that, I thought "You're a singer, what makes you think you'll pass 40?" along with the documented cases of people going past 110. What does age have to do with your "dude"ness?
Staid and stuffy. Definitely. I cringe when I think of the crap and stupidity I came out with in my teens and twenties, all in a futile attempt to be hip and cool. Being a dude was one of those things, and I am old enough for it to have different connotations, going back to all the young dudes.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Yes I know WPF will run on Windows 8 - but is it considered obsolete that Metro is the new and upcoming and all new candies will be allocated to Metro and not WPF? Remember Winform > WPF > Metro evolution? When WPF came out all of sudden seems like Winform no longer cool or funky, like a piece of old technology ready to be spitted out even by Microsoft itself
dev
No I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying WPF runs on Windows 8 (which it does on non-RT systems), I'm saying if you have a significant investment in WPF then that investment isn't lost because the development environment, methodologies, and tools are the same ones you'll using to develop Windows Runtime apps. The composition of which is very much like what you'd find on Silverlight or Windows Phone. If you're leveraging MVVM at all via Caliburn Micro or MVVM Light, those tools are already or soon coming to the Windows Runtime. We have been able to rapidly move our view models from Caliburn Micro desktop apps to Metro apps and it's been an amazing experience in comparison to some the other feature shifts in the .Net world (which I think is the crux of your Winforms example). We also heavily leverage Autofac in our environment, and it has been built as a portable class library for some time now, enabling us to simple tweak (not rewrite) our code and it again has been a top notch experience. Summing up my rant: WPF isn't going anywhere with the shift to the Windows Runtime, it's just changed slightly. (and did I mention that the desktop isn't going anywhere either :)
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No I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying WPF runs on Windows 8 (which it does on non-RT systems), I'm saying if you have a significant investment in WPF then that investment isn't lost because the development environment, methodologies, and tools are the same ones you'll using to develop Windows Runtime apps. The composition of which is very much like what you'd find on Silverlight or Windows Phone. If you're leveraging MVVM at all via Caliburn Micro or MVVM Light, those tools are already or soon coming to the Windows Runtime. We have been able to rapidly move our view models from Caliburn Micro desktop apps to Metro apps and it's been an amazing experience in comparison to some the other feature shifts in the .Net world (which I think is the crux of your Winforms example). We also heavily leverage Autofac in our environment, and it has been built as a portable class library for some time now, enabling us to simple tweak (not rewrite) our code and it again has been a top notch experience. Summing up my rant: WPF isn't going anywhere with the shift to the Windows Runtime, it's just changed slightly. (and did I mention that the desktop isn't going anywhere either :)
... I'm not interested in moving our view models from one environment to another, I'm not least bit interested in "Paradigm Shift" - I just want publish apps and income stream coming in. Unless there's a real increment to capability (i.e. monetary incentive) offered by the new environment/framework, it's a complete waste of effort to migrate to the new platform. Our experience moving from Winform to WPF was exactly this - that the then newer WPF platform was nothing more than a "Paradigm shift", there's no real addition to what Desktop Apps can do. (Imagine yourself having to justify Winform to WPF migration?) Same can be said for Socket>WebService>WCF migration. Everything from serialization/compression/encryption/load distribution can be so easily done by code/libraries previously written, why bother with hassle of having to memorize WCF configurations? So much hype and so little "Capability". Now, having read this[^], it appears that "Desktop Apps" (WPF/Winform) will continue run on Windows 8. However, "Metro Style Apps" (touched based/enabled apps) will be built on top of the brand new WinRT API. If I'm not mistaken, the only real addition this time around is that Metro Style apps will be "Touched Enabled", and "Tablet like". I guess, we need to revisit the fundamental questions every so often - What can computer do [differently]? - What can you application do [differently]? Way I see it, Windows 8 and WinRT - sounds like small/incremental improvement but a lot of code changes/work be done to port code from .NET to WinRT. "Radical" is a gross over-statement.
dev
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Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct
No I didn't. I just pointed out that quoting Wikipedia isn't always a guarantee of reliability.
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
Dude
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development.
Again, no I don't. Read what I put again. I merely stated that you can run WPF and .NET apps on Windows 8 so the skills aren't dead. There's a reason I mentioned the ARM processor - and that's because that's the one environment where you can't run them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Quite right; the correct form of address is clearly "Brosicle". ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Staid and stuffy. Definitely. I cringe when I think of the crap and stupidity I came out with in my teens and twenties, all in a futile attempt to be hip and cool. Being a dude was one of those things, and I am old enough for it to have different connotations, going back to all the young dudes.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Staid and stuffy. Definitely.
Said by someone who would also say
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle
:laugh:
Actually, that was said by Sean.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
