After so many hacks, why won't Java just go away?
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The thing is, like many successful platforms, part of what makes Java so dangerous is also its main selling point: it's everywhere. Java's original stewards, the now-defunct Sun Microsystems, built it as an intermediary for cross-platform code deployment, and today its new owners at Oracle brag that Java runs on more than 3 billion devices — the allure is that you only need to write code once and you've got your software running on Windows, Mac, and Linux PCs, plus a whole host of other compatible devices to boot.
I'd rather write an App on the Qt framework[^] than I just could think about writing a Java app. Qt (which initially has been launched by Nokia, by now it is owned by the finnish Digia company) supports - as Java does too - all important operating systems (Windows [mobile, embedded and desktop], Mac, Linux [embedded and desktop]) and some additional frameworks as Nokias Symbian. Because Qt does support the up-to-date C++ standard (C++ 0X AFAIK - corect me if I am wrong) it is no problem to export your business logic into another app - an android app or another application which is being developed with a C++ IDE. If you ask me - there are enough possible alternatives to Java. The problem is that not many devs have found out about them yet.
cheers Marco Bertschi
Software Developer & Founder SMGT Web-Portal CP Profile | My Articles | Twitter | Facebook | SMGT Web-Portal
How would that be a solution? The security issues with Java are exclusively with the browser plugin - AFAIK Qt has no equivalent. Also Qt requires that the program be recompiled for every platform, so it is cross-platform at the source code level, not the executable level.
-Shon
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How would that be a solution? The security issues with Java are exclusively with the browser plugin - AFAIK Qt has no equivalent. Also Qt requires that the program be recompiled for every platform, so it is cross-platform at the source code level, not the executable level.
-Shon
svella wrote:
Java are exclusively with the browser plugin
IMO Java Browser Applications will be replaced by newer technologies such as HTML5 and JQuery.
svella wrote:
Also Qt requires that the program be recompiled for every platform, so it is cross-platform at the source code level, not the executable level.
This is not a real matter - In Qt you have no Virtual machine which uses additional power on the machine and you can redistribute all you need without verifying that there is Java installed on the users' machine. And you do not have to force your customer to install anything else than your software.
cheers Marco Bertschi
Software Developer & Founder SMGT Web-Portal CP Profile | My Articles | Twitter | Facebook | SMGT Web-Portal
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The thing is, like many successful platforms, part of what makes Java so dangerous is also its main selling point: it's everywhere. Java's original stewards, the now-defunct Sun Microsystems, built it as an intermediary for cross-platform code deployment, and today its new owners at Oracle brag that Java runs on more than 3 billion devices — the allure is that you only need to write code once and you've got your software running on Windows, Mac, and Linux PCs, plus a whole host of other compatible devices to boot.
I'd rather write an App on the Qt framework[^] than I just could think about writing a Java app. Qt (which initially has been launched by Nokia, by now it is owned by the finnish Digia company) supports - as Java does too - all important operating systems (Windows [mobile, embedded and desktop], Mac, Linux [embedded and desktop]) and some additional frameworks as Nokias Symbian. Because Qt does support the up-to-date C++ standard (C++ 0X AFAIK - corect me if I am wrong) it is no problem to export your business logic into another app - an android app or another application which is being developed with a C++ IDE. If you ask me - there are enough possible alternatives to Java. The problem is that not many devs have found out about them yet.
cheers Marco Bertschi
Software Developer & Founder SMGT Web-Portal CP Profile | My Articles | Twitter | Facebook | SMGT Web-Portal
I used Qt when I had a Nokia N8 and wanted to make a compass for it (which lacked from the Ovi store). Symbian^3 main app development is done with Qt. Loved it! I never thought I would love C++ again as much.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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svella wrote:
Java are exclusively with the browser plugin
IMO Java Browser Applications will be replaced by newer technologies such as HTML5 and JQuery.
svella wrote:
Also Qt requires that the program be recompiled for every platform, so it is cross-platform at the source code level, not the executable level.
This is not a real matter - In Qt you have no Virtual machine which uses additional power on the machine and you can redistribute all you need without verifying that there is Java installed on the users' machine. And you do not have to force your customer to install anything else than your software.
cheers Marco Bertschi
Software Developer & Founder SMGT Web-Portal CP Profile | My Articles | Twitter | Facebook | SMGT Web-Portal
Marco Bertschi wrote:
which uses additional power
Nonsense. There are many things wrong with the implicit ideas contained within it. First of course is completely ignoring the fact that in the vast majority of business domains language choice has no impact on the solution. Business requirements and developer experience/skills moves language choice impact below the noise level.
Marco Bertschi wrote:
And you do not have to force your customer to install anything else than your software.
Nonsense as a general statement. There are business domains that require external sources, such as any busienss product that requires persistent storage and products that are intended to work with other products. It also ignores the fact that complex problems require complex solutions which often require distinct products.
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I wonder if it is just the wide spread of Java which makes it a favorite target for hackers. If Java went away, and, say, QT took its place, QT might very well suffer the same fate. At least the fate of being targeted more frequently...
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Thanks. Add me to the list of people unaware of Qt. Time to look into it. Whenever I heard the name before, my brain kept hearing "Tcl". It's kind of funny that way, my brain.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
Kent Sharkey wrote:
Whenever I heard the name before, my brain kept hearing "Tcl"
Funny - my brain keeps hearing "QuickTime" :)
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Long before these latest major security holes, the common use of java applets (the main problem) did go away (mostly I believe it died out very early in java's life, after the novelty wore off). Unfortunately, installing java also still installs the plugin by default in most cases (just in case someone has an applet I guess). Remove/disable/never install the browser plugin and things are generally no less secure than using native OS applications. In reality it is still more secure, since a java application (not applet) itself isn't as vulnerable to common native issues, like buffer overflows (baring flawed implementations in a _specific_ VM code base -- i.e. Sun/Oracle JVM security holes vs some clean-room JVM implementation).
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Long before these latest major security holes, the common use of java applets (the main problem) did go away (mostly I believe it died out very early in java's life, after the novelty wore off). Unfortunately, installing java also still installs the plugin by default in most cases (just in case someone has an applet I guess). Remove/disable/never install the browser plugin and things are generally no less secure than using native OS applications. In reality it is still more secure, since a java application (not applet) itself isn't as vulnerable to common native issues, like buffer overflows (baring flawed implementations in a _specific_ VM code base -- i.e. Sun/Oracle JVM security holes vs some clean-room JVM implementation).
I think this is the perfect answer to those problems, and to probably 99.9% of the complaints about Java. Definitely agree. Yes, when was the last time I saw a (useful) Java applet that wasn't someone's thesis project?
-------------- TTFN - Kent
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Java won't go away, I believe it's important to differentiate the language from the runtime from the browser plugin from everything else. The language it's good, the runtime it's good, the problem is the browser plugin, you don't just ditch something because it's slightly bent, you try to fix it and if it's not possible and you decide it's not worth the problem then you walk away. Honestly I believe there is no alternative to the main strength of Java that is Write once, Run everywhere, the closest contendant it's probably C# with the .NET Framework using the Mono runtime, but it's far from the mark set by Java.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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Java won't go away, I believe it's important to differentiate the language from the runtime from the browser plugin from everything else. The language it's good, the runtime it's good, the problem is the browser plugin, you don't just ditch something because it's slightly bent, you try to fix it and if it's not possible and you decide it's not worth the problem then you walk away. Honestly I believe there is no alternative to the main strength of Java that is Write once, Run everywhere, the closest contendant it's probably C# with the .NET Framework using the Mono runtime, but it's far from the mark set by Java.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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The "Java hacks" are not hacks of Java as a language or even of Java as a platform. They only concern sandboxing of Java applications in a browser - that is the Java plugin. So if you use Java (as 99.99% of Java programmers and users do) as a server-side language, or to deliver Android or other mobile apps, build desktop apps, or cross-compile to other languages, the security problems of the plugin are completely irrelevant. No reason for Java to go away. Note that other platforms mentioned (like QT... which is hardly even comparable) are "safer" only because they don't offer such sandboxing at all.