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JoeSox

Paul van der Walt wrote: we're in a free world :suss:We are?:suss: ;P:-D Later,
JoeSox
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Jorgen Sigvardsson

JoeSox wrote: We are? Not really, it all depends on how much money you've got. :) -- Yeeeeehaaaaawwwwd!

Paul Watson

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Not really, it all depends on how much money you've got. Yeah. The more you have and depend on, the less free you are.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...

Chris Austin

So true. I find it amazing how some of my neighbors and co-workers are wigging out over the economy now. Many have over-spent soo much that they probably couldn't afford any time out of work. And they have become slaves to money. At some leval I almost hope I get layed off; mabey the wife and I can take an early and longer vacation. But I, being poor, have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. - Yeats

Jorgen Sigvardsson

That's one way of looking at it. But if you're loaded, and then I mean really loaded like a billionaire, you don't have problems with freedom. If you don't have it, you can buy it. :) I define freedom as being able to do whatever you want, given it's legal of course, whenever you want. I envy those who have such much money, that they can just travel somewhere without having to think twice. I, the poor sob, must first save up, then pick a date in the calendar and hope that nothing will come up to prevent me from traveling. Moving about freely is one important aspect of freedom for me (as you might have guessed :)) -- Yeeeeehaaaaawwwwd!

Chris Austin

I define freedom as being able to do whatever you want, given it's legal of course, whenever you want. Thats a great way too look at it. Moving about freely is one important aspect of freedom for me I feel the same way. Too bad money always gets in the way. My wife and I have always tried to save as much as we could by living well below our means. Hell, both of us drive 10 year old cars and I do all of the maintence. It is amazing how much you save when you don't have a car payment. We usualy budget a lot of that saved money toward long vacations far away from home where we can't be reached by the PHBs. But I, being poor, have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. - Yeats

Paul Watson

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: But if you're loaded, and then I mean really loaded like a billionaire, you don't have problems with freedom. If you don't have it, you can buy it Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I define freedom as being able to do whatever you want, given it's legal of course, whenever you want Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I envy those who have such much money, that they can just travel somewhere without having to think twice. Rich people are not free. Believe me, I work with them. With money comes responsibility. Take Bill Gates. Richest guy in the world, you can't get free'er than him, according to you. He can't just take off a day because he feels like it. He can't just fly to Turkey and spend three months loafing about. He can't skip a meeting with his board of directors or tell a potential Microsoft client ten minutes before a meeting "Lets reschedule." With those billions of dollars he has built up a huge responsibility. To his family, to his BOD, to his employees and to his clients. He still has to please the right people, he still has to to go to court every week. No amount of money can buy his freedom from the courts. He has to plan his holidays months, years, before the time. "Hmmm, .NET is coming out in January, I had better be available then, so much for Christmas and New Years, sorry kids." Take another good example: Sir Richard Branson. The guy seems like the freest man alive. Off in his baloons and yachts and trains and what not. Throwing parties, living the high life. He has even more comitments than Bill Gates. Without Branson Virgin is nothing. Virgin is just another large faceless company without Branson. If Branson takes one day off of promoting Virgin, it starts to fall. So every morning he wakes up and re-makes his comitment to his company, to the thousands of people that work for him and rely on him. Everything he does, is a tie in to his work. Money does not make you free Jörgen. I have seen dirt poor people who are incredibly happy and free in life. They travel where they want, do the jobs they want to do, meet people they would like to. They can get up in the morning, pick up their backpack and catch a train to India, without worrying about any comitments. Branson, Gates, Ellison, The Queen, none of them can do that. Frankly people like you and I are the worst off at the moment. We have the comitments, but not the money. We have not realised what peopl

Lost User

Chris Austin wrote: both of us drive 10 year old cars i think it's safe to estimate that 90% of all flashy new cars belong to the bank. these people don't realize how dependent they've made themselves on money - a shame really. Paul ;)

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Brian Delahunty

Paul van der Walt wrote: we're in a free world Since when... did I miss this? Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Run naked in the snow until you're sweating like a stuck pig and can't seem to catch your breath. When the flu becomes pneumonia, they can cure that with a shot. - Roger Wright

Brian Delahunty

The thing with Gates though is that he has enough money to be free if he wants... He could say.. "Fuck it all", sign all his part of MS over to Myself and Yourself [:-D] and off he goes.... I agree with you completely with teh responsibility side of things... A celebrite like, hmmm.. Madonna for example, is worth about what.. $200 million or so... I'd see her as having an awful lot more freedom that the like of Bill Gates although she still isn't free because of the press and so on... She has less responsibility but still not as free. Freedom is a relative term. Although saying that I want to call my first born child [if it's a girl] Sáoirse. [The Irish word for Freedom and it sounds so nice when spoken in Irish :-D] Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Run naked in the snow until you're sweating like a stuck pig and can't seem to catch your breath. When the flu becomes pneumonia, they can cure that with a shot. - Roger Wright

Paul Watson

Brian Delahunty wrote: The thing with Gates though is that he has enough money to be free if he wants... He could say.. "f*** it all", sign all his part of MS over to Myself and Yourself [] and off he goes.... Nope, he can't. Microsoft has stocks, it has a board of directors, it has clauses and controls. BillyGs wealth is based on the company he created and which he is now a part of. The board of directors most likely have made him sign a deal where he gets X amount of stocks but that he has to stay with the company for 5 years or 10 years or whatever. If he says "sod it all" then there will be huge penalty clauses. He probably has, if he was smart, managed to get cash out of the company into his own name. But a lot of CEOs do not do that. A lot of us plebs do not realise just how tied into the company a CEO or CTO or any top level guy is in a firm. How their wealth is based on them staying and working in the company. Plus of course with a guy like him where he does not want to say sod it, a lot of his assets will be company based for tax benefits. So they are not really his and depend on him working for MS. Madonna is pretty much the same. She recently signed a 4 album deal for the next 5 or so years. She has to produce 4 albums in the next 5 years (and she cannot make 4 in one year and try and run.) She can't run, she can't say sod it. But yes she, a rarity, has been smart with her money apparently. Read an article where that $200mil was actually her own money, invested in houses and bonds and what not. All hers, not linked to companies or anything. So there, she has been smart and once the her album deal is through (she will be what, 60 by then? shame) she can be "free." But as you said her fame will never let her be free, not ever. Can't go anywhere without being recognised or hounded. These are both bad examples though as they both love what they do and both will work till they die. That is fine, that is their passion and it is what have made them rich. The thing with many rich people is that what starts out as a way to make money, becomes such an ingrained way of life that they cannot stop doing it, even if they hate it, they have to carry on. If they stop, they are lost, unable to do anything else to fill the time. They then wither away, or get back into business. That is not free either. I am sure there are free rich people. But then there are also free poor people.