Abuse of Power?
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I didn't think you could get rid of someone just from downvoting on messages. If you could, I'd have gone.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easierIt's not down-voting as such as that is disabled in the Soapbox. It's people using the report button as there isn't a down-vote for them to use. Johnny J has admitted there that he reported the message but didn't want to remove the member, but that is what happened. It's suggested there that it is a bug but I don't think it is because if used on a genuine spammer i.e. the live stream ones we are getting recently then you would want the report to both remove the message and the account so that they can't repeat it. As the message is still there, I'm assuming most people went to his profile to report him directly, which is wrong. At the end of the day I think the report button should strictly be used for genuine spammers or, more rarely, somebody comes on and starts abusing people. I believe this is what it was introduced for and not for removing people that don't fit into the clique.
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The post stands, the user has been nuked. Go figure.
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol "Nagy, you have won the internets." - Keith Barrow
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Do we really want to ban people for telling bad jokes? Please see this post[^]which got the member banned. Now I don't particularly like the bad jokes that blight the Soapbox but I don't think the intention of the report message button was to remove members who post them, which is what happened in this case. One poster has admitted in that thread that when he reported it he didn't think it would get the member banned, but I suspect the rest of the reporters knew that would be the result(and I reckon I could name them). I thought that the idea when the down-voting was removed, was that if we didn't like something we should say so by replying to that member in order to educate them in the forum protocol, this has also happened in that thread but people still felt the need to remove him. The reporters will say that he has been warned before and didn't listen, but I think he is genuinely trying to fit in and his only crime is to post rubbish jokes - not really a banning criteria and a 'crime' that many others are guilty of in that forum, but they don't get banned. When the remove power was in the hands of the admins, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have removed him, so we shouldn't remove him either. After all he marked his post with a joke icon, so members who didn't like his previous jokes could have just passed on by without reading it. Is it worth reminding the people who reported it what the report button should actually be used for?
He always had the potential to go troll I thought, but wasn't there yet and might never have done, so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. His account was nuked (the message still stands), so it wasn't necessarily this message, perhaps he posted something somewhere else?
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
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He always had the potential to go troll I thought, but wasn't there yet and might never have done, so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. His account was nuked (the message still stands), so it wasn't necessarily this message, perhaps he posted something somewhere else?
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
I think he started some discussions which were met reasonably well in the Lounge (apart from those jokes). I see no reason why he could have become a troll. I think that joke topic made people report him?
My Blog Tai'shar Manetheren! Tai'shar Malkier!
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Do we really want to ban people for telling bad jokes? Please see this post[^]which got the member banned. Now I don't particularly like the bad jokes that blight the Soapbox but I don't think the intention of the report message button was to remove members who post them, which is what happened in this case. One poster has admitted in that thread that when he reported it he didn't think it would get the member banned, but I suspect the rest of the reporters knew that would be the result(and I reckon I could name them). I thought that the idea when the down-voting was removed, was that if we didn't like something we should say so by replying to that member in order to educate them in the forum protocol, this has also happened in that thread but people still felt the need to remove him. The reporters will say that he has been warned before and didn't listen, but I think he is genuinely trying to fit in and his only crime is to post rubbish jokes - not really a banning criteria and a 'crime' that many others are guilty of in that forum, but they don't get banned. When the remove power was in the hands of the admins, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have removed him, so we shouldn't remove him either. After all he marked his post with a joke icon, so members who didn't like his previous jokes could have just passed on by without reading it. Is it worth reminding the people who reported it what the report button should actually be used for?
This is unfortunate. I hope the account is given back since this is borderline unfair.
My Blog Tai'shar Manetheren! Tai'shar Malkier!
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I think he started some discussions which were met reasonably well in the Lounge (apart from those jokes). I see no reason why he could have become a troll. I think that joke topic made people report him?
My Blog Tai'shar Manetheren! Tai'shar Malkier!
Nithin Sundar wrote:
I see no reason why he could have become a troll.
You might not I do. Trolling can be more subtle than just winding people up. Some people spend real time and effort on it. We've had several such people in the past: They start off with a few more-or-less reasonable posts, then the poor jokes start, then they become obnoxious (especially posting unwelcome jokes). Before the report button came into play, it could take days/weeks to get rid of them as they'd play a fine line between winding people up and getting banned. We had one repeat offender who always had this MO, though he normally distinguished himself by putting his location as Lebanon. I'm not saying he was a troll (I actually didn't report him), just that he showed early signs of being one. Personally I didn't see anything that was worthy of him getting banned.
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
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Nithin Sundar wrote:
I see no reason why he could have become a troll.
You might not I do. Trolling can be more subtle than just winding people up. Some people spend real time and effort on it. We've had several such people in the past: They start off with a few more-or-less reasonable posts, then the poor jokes start, then they become obnoxious (especially posting unwelcome jokes). Before the report button came into play, it could take days/weeks to get rid of them as they'd play a fine line between winding people up and getting banned. We had one repeat offender who always had this MO, though he normally distinguished himself by putting his location as Lebanon. I'm not saying he was a troll (I actually didn't report him), just that he showed early signs of being one. Personally I didn't see anything that was worthy of him getting banned.
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
I understand what you mean and I agree with the points you explained. It's a real pain to get trolls off the site and harder for everyone when the person keeps doing it. I felt it was unfortunate since he did make a effort to contribute by creating some good topics and even replying in them as well. That I feel, in my view, is someone who did enjoy the Lounge in a normal way.
My Blog Tai'shar Manetheren! Tai'shar Malkier!
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Do we really want to ban people for telling bad jokes? Please see this post[^]which got the member banned. Now I don't particularly like the bad jokes that blight the Soapbox but I don't think the intention of the report message button was to remove members who post them, which is what happened in this case. One poster has admitted in that thread that when he reported it he didn't think it would get the member banned, but I suspect the rest of the reporters knew that would be the result(and I reckon I could name them). I thought that the idea when the down-voting was removed, was that if we didn't like something we should say so by replying to that member in order to educate them in the forum protocol, this has also happened in that thread but people still felt the need to remove him. The reporters will say that he has been warned before and didn't listen, but I think he is genuinely trying to fit in and his only crime is to post rubbish jokes - not really a banning criteria and a 'crime' that many others are guilty of in that forum, but they don't get banned. When the remove power was in the hands of the admins, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have removed him, so we shouldn't remove him either. After all he marked his post with a joke icon, so members who didn't like his previous jokes could have just passed on by without reading it. Is it worth reminding the people who reported it what the report button should actually be used for?
The user has been reinstated.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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The user has been reinstated.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Thanks, but I think it is the second time it has happened to that member so maybe it doesn't cure the overall problem of people wrongly using the report facility?
PB 369,783 wrote:
I think it is the second time it has happened to that member
I have a recollection of this user trolling in the Lounge a while back, deliberately posting rubbish because he was bored. I thought he'd improved a lot since then.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
Do we really want to ban people for telling bad jokes? Please see this post[^]which got the member banned. Now I don't particularly like the bad jokes that blight the Soapbox but I don't think the intention of the report message button was to remove members who post them, which is what happened in this case. One poster has admitted in that thread that when he reported it he didn't think it would get the member banned, but I suspect the rest of the reporters knew that would be the result(and I reckon I could name them). I thought that the idea when the down-voting was removed, was that if we didn't like something we should say so by replying to that member in order to educate them in the forum protocol, this has also happened in that thread but people still felt the need to remove him. The reporters will say that he has been warned before and didn't listen, but I think he is genuinely trying to fit in and his only crime is to post rubbish jokes - not really a banning criteria and a 'crime' that many others are guilty of in that forum, but they don't get banned. When the remove power was in the hands of the admins, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have removed him, so we shouldn't remove him either. After all he marked his post with a joke icon, so members who didn't like his previous jokes could have just passed on by without reading it. Is it worth reminding the people who reported it what the report button should actually be used for?
Chris didn't touch on the subject, but as far as I am concerned, it is not a bug. If you use the red flag to report a message as Spam, the system automatically reports the member as Spammer on your behalf as well. If you use the red flag to report a message as Abuse, the member is not reported as Abusive. As far as I can tell, the member is not even deducted any points. I think it is obvious this behavior was put in place to quickly get rid of members that post actual spam in the forums - I am sure many members will see a spam message and report it as such, but not bother going to the profile to report the offending member directly. The trick is to get people to red-flag posts like the one in question as Abuse and not as Spam. A few of those and the post is gone without hurting the posting member. Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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Chris didn't touch on the subject, but as far as I am concerned, it is not a bug. If you use the red flag to report a message as Spam, the system automatically reports the member as Spammer on your behalf as well. If you use the red flag to report a message as Abuse, the member is not reported as Abusive. As far as I can tell, the member is not even deducted any points. I think it is obvious this behavior was put in place to quickly get rid of members that post actual spam in the forums - I am sure many members will see a spam message and report it as such, but not bother going to the profile to report the offending member directly. The trick is to get people to red-flag posts like the one in question as Abuse and not as Spam. A few of those and the post is gone without hurting the posting member. Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
I think a "report message as crap" option in addition to spam/abusive might make things clearer. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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I think a "report message as crap" option in addition to spam/abusive might make things clearer. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
I happen to agree with you, but when I suggested that in The Box once, I did not sense a whole lot of support: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4533530/Re-Please-bring-back-down-voting.aspx[^] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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Do we really want to ban people for telling bad jokes? Please see this post[^]which got the member banned. Now I don't particularly like the bad jokes that blight the Soapbox but I don't think the intention of the report message button was to remove members who post them, which is what happened in this case. One poster has admitted in that thread that when he reported it he didn't think it would get the member banned, but I suspect the rest of the reporters knew that would be the result(and I reckon I could name them). I thought that the idea when the down-voting was removed, was that if we didn't like something we should say so by replying to that member in order to educate them in the forum protocol, this has also happened in that thread but people still felt the need to remove him. The reporters will say that he has been warned before and didn't listen, but I think he is genuinely trying to fit in and his only crime is to post rubbish jokes - not really a banning criteria and a 'crime' that many others are guilty of in that forum, but they don't get banned. When the remove power was in the hands of the admins, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have removed him, so we shouldn't remove him either. After all he marked his post with a joke icon, so members who didn't like his previous jokes could have just passed on by without reading it. Is it worth reminding the people who reported it what the report button should actually be used for?
That was unfortunate. I think enabling down-voting on Lounge might help, I think when members have nothing to express their dislike they just reporting the post/member as spam.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
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The user has been reinstated.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Does he know? I'd have thought we would have seen something from him upon his reinstatement.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
I think a "report message as crap" option in addition to spam/abusive might make things clearer. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Excellent idea! :thumbsup:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Greg King
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I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!
Ron White, Comedian -
That was unfortunate. I think enabling down-voting on Lounge might help, I think when members have nothing to express their dislike they just reporting the post/member as spam.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
Rajesh's idea of a "report message as crap" option seems like the perfect solution to me. It needn't do anything but count the number of reports, no minus points, no abuse/spam deletes or ahything like that. Just let the OP know how many people that didn't like his post...
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Greg King
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I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!
Ron White, Comedian -
That was unfortunate. I think enabling down-voting on Lounge might help, I think when members have nothing to express their dislike they just reporting the post/member as spam.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
I think the intentions behind the current system are clear. If a message is being reported as spam, then the member is a spammer, which should in fact get them banned. Unfortunately, incidents like this happen when people resort to reporting a message as they don't have any other means to vent their anger on an utterly nonsensical post. But then I've also seen that incidents like this are not very frequent, and when it does happen, our members get the unintentionally closed account reinstated. This is a fair trade to ensure that the actual spammers will get kicked out by the system really quick. I think everything is in order. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Rajesh's idea of a "report message as crap" option seems like the perfect solution to me. It needn't do anything but count the number of reports, no minus points, no abuse/spam deletes or ahything like that. Just let the OP know how many people that didn't like his post...
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Greg King
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I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!
Ron White, ComedianYes, that is a good idea, so if we don't want to implement something new, we can just turn on the down-voting without any minus points/deletes. just plain down-votes to tell the OP that we are not interested.
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
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I think the intentions behind the current system are clear. If a message is being reported as spam, then the member is a spammer, which should in fact get them banned. Unfortunately, incidents like this happen when people resort to reporting a message as they don't have any other means to vent their anger on an utterly nonsensical post. But then I've also seen that incidents like this are not very frequent, and when it does happen, our members get the unintentionally closed account reinstated. This is a fair trade to ensure that the actual spammers will get kicked out by the system really quick. I think everything is in order. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
I agree, but we need something to let other know that we don't like certain threads. Because most of the time when you reply with dislike, it tends to offend them as it's just finger pointing. It seems, people are not learning anything from these life-learning-lessons. :-D Why do people think that they need to represent themselves as either funny or wise. I just hate this nonsense. :mad:
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud