Denouncing the Heretics

Doug Goulden

I'll let him back in ... I'm just kind of tired of artists speaking about things they know little if anything about. But hey I do have to defend his right to have an opinion... Here I am trapped by my own beliefs, I have to defend his right to have his beliefs even when I think they are wrong. (Not bad for a conservative huh? ;)) Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

peterchen

i guess enough peple would like to see Moore staked anyway...

If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
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Jorgen Sigvardsson

Doug Goulden wrote: Here I am trapped by my own beliefs, I have to defend his right to have his beliefs even when I think they are wrong. (Not bad for a conservative huh?) What the...? You're on thin ice now.. You're turning liberal man! :-D Doug Goulden wrote: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that? Aha! Seriously though, marrying a person with different political oppinions is probably pretty sound. I mean, you do get to discuss things you'd normally wouldn't discuss, which is not a bad idea. And if you start fighting over some war in a desert far far away, there will be lots of "Oh honey, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset you" sex activities afterwards. I'm currently "working" on a female which you'd probably call a commie. I think she's a good catch too, despite the fact that I'm not nearly as left as she is. Oooh, and she's a redhead too. :rolleyes: -- we dance to the sound of sirens and we watch genocide to relax we dance to the sound of sirens we are the heroes of self-deception

peterchen

Why do you think only the military knows what war is?

If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
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Doug Goulden

A red head? You ARE a glutton for punishment. Seriously though after Sept 11th my wife's outlook has changed a lot. She sees that there is a difference between the intellectual idea that we can talk out all of our problems (meaning humanity) , and the reality that sometimes you have to be willing to fight for your beliefs. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

Roger Wright

KaЯl wrote: Would they be burned at stake when going home Nope. We forgive actors their misguided and uninformed opinions. After all, they spend their entire lives immersed in a fantasy world. We even elected a guy who's best role was as a supporting actor to a monkey. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003

Doug Goulden

I don't even begin to think that the military knows what war is about. My statement was mor along the theme of I am tired of hearing some "celebrity" spouting off about things that they know little if anything about. The idea that someone who makes a good movie or is a good singer is more informed than anyone else is laughable. Shirley McClaine, Barbra Striesand, Spike Lee, Shawn Penn, th list goes on and on of people who seem to be long on opinions and short on brains... That was my point.;P I would suggest though that people in the military do have more of an understanding of what a war costs... not just in financial terms but in the human cost as well. I honestly believe that the majority of the military sees war as I do, theres no romance in fighting and killing. I spent years on a ballistic missle submarine in the 1980's. I can't begin to tell you how happy I am that we never used one of them for anything more than deterence. If you can suggest a way that you can deter Sadaam short of brute force maybe you should run for office. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

Doug Goulden

Ouch:omg: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

Stan Shannon

Moore is just another wannabee European. I don't understand why he just doesn't move there and be done with it. KaЯl wrote: Director Spike Lee, presented a career award, thanked the French for "knowing the difference between the American people and American foreign policy." Of course, in this case "American people" would consist of Moore and Lee and a handful of others. Most real Americans just want to kick someone's ass and we aren't too picking about who it might be. France would do. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle

Mike Gaskey

Doug Goulden wrote: Barbra Striesand, Spike Lee, Shawn Penn, th list goes on and on of people who seem to be long on opinions and short on brains... If you're as tired of these celebrity spokes-people as I am, here is a way to register your opinion. Here is a link to an on-line petition. The petition asks the "stars" to please shut up and quit using their celebrity to push for positions that many of the rest of us do not support. I personally refuse to pay for or watch anything these people star in, sing on, act in, write or produce. I don't mean they shouldn't speak their piece, I just do not intend on paying their salaries while they do. For example, I quit watching CNN when they referred to the 9-11 terrorists as alleged terrorists. Stopped watching West Wing the day after Martin Sheen called George W.Bush, "stupid". Wouldn't watch any Clooney movie if you paid me. Have burned my copy of Sean Penn's "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" (ok, I really didn't burn it). Check it out and if your conscious allows, please sign it. http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hollywoodceleb/index.html[^] Mike

Chris Losinger

Doug Goulden wrote: I'm just kind of tired of artists speaking about things they know little if anything about. hey, if politicians can get together and tell me what i can and can't do to my own friggin body, or what two consenting adults can and can't do to each other, then by all means, let every f'in actor, janitor and bowl-a-rama owner in the country get up and state their views about GWB's pet war. they aren't hurting anyone (unless you think people are harmed by hearing anything but The Party Line). :beer: :) -c

When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.

Bobber!

Chris Losinger

Stan Shannon wrote: Most make that just around 1/2, and only then with UN support. -c

When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.

Bobber!

Doug Goulden

I don't mind 'em having an opinion I'm just tired of hearing their being reported as news. Frankly Chris I don't give a damn. ;) Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

Chris Losinger

Doug Goulden wrote: I'm just tired of hearing their being reported as news well, i agree with ya there. -c

When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.

Bobber!

Doug Goulden

Excellent link. I signed up although I think most of the people that we are talking about are to self absorbed to notice or care about someone elses opinion. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

peterchen

I see the reason why you're fed up - but also, I see why "celebs" have to voice their opinion: They have a moral obligation in times of uprising, to voice their opinion: because people do look up to them, and they can't afford to have been silent afterwards. Denouncing those of a different opinion as "uninformed" (to use a polite word) seems to happen very quickly now in the US. Second, if a country is abandoning certain values, everybody who believes in these values must stand up and voice himself. He doesn't need to be an expert about the immediate reasons. Further, celeb is likely to have a different point of view, way of thinking. I at least expect that with Lee and Moore - although Moore is not "out of the box" but "from a different box". Streisand and McClaine - they're probably old enough to have seen why the values exist that the US is now so quickly to abandon. That's what is more frightening than the war against Iraq itself: what the US is willing to give up, and to do, to go to this war. If I knew a way to dethrone Saddam... I probably wouldn't end up in office anyway, but IMO fueling fear, denouncing alliances, and last not least spending big tax bucks isn't worth it. And many more UN resolutions could be enforced with much less cost of life, dollars, and friendship.

If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
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Jorgen Sigvardsson

Doug Goulden wrote: A red head? You ARE a glutton for punishment. :rolleyes: Doug Goulden wrote: She sees that there is a difference between the intellectual idea that we can talk out all of our problems (meaning humanity) , and the reality that sometimes you have to be willing to fight for your beliefs. Ah, yes. The agonizing difference between theory and reality shows it's face. But nevertheless, difficult as it may be, it's always wise to study the theory before lunging into reality head first. -- we dance to the sound of sirens and we watch genocide to relax we dance to the sound of sirens we are the heroes of self-deception

Doug Goulden

peterchen wrote: And many more UN resolutions could be enforced with much less cost of life, dollars, and friendship. What have sixteen resolutions done for us? Sadaam hasn't listened to any of them. Have you seen Sadaam disarm? Have you seen him not attack British and American aircraft in the no fly zones? Seems that UN resolutions are pretty ineffective when the subject of the resolution doesn't care. The problem is that there is no way to enforce the reolution short of force, and if you aren't going to enforce the resolution there is no point in having the UN or the Security council. I think that the reality of the situation is that the UN itself is at stake , not because the US is trying to manipulate it but because it (and its member states) are unwilling to follow through. The UN is dying of apathy. peterchen wrote: IMO fueling fear, denouncing alliances, and last not least spending big tax bucks isn't worth it What alliance has the US denounced? It seems to me that France and Germany were the ones that wouldn't support a fellow NATO nation (Turkey) when they requested support. France as an ally is useless, they are the essence of self absorbtion and self importance. We saved them in 1919 and again in the 1940's, and the thanks we get is? Nothing... The US has a valid interest in pursuing the people who would see us destroyed and the French government(the same people who sold Saddaam the nuke plant in the 80's) are wringing their hands .... So what. But when they need us again who will open their wallet and send their sons and daughters to defend them? We will, just like we did for 50 years from the threat of the Soviet Union.... IMO France and Germany have pretty short memories. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

I thought Mr Moore and Lee were more directors than actors? Roger Wright wrote: We even elected a guy who's best role was as a supporting actor to a monkey. You're talking about Reagan, I presume. I've seen once a movie from the 50's with him as "actor". Oh my God, it was so bad!

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

KaRl

Stan Shannon wrote: Moore is just another wannabee European. I don't understand why he just doesn't move there and be done with it. I think so. Stan Shannon wrote: Most real Americans just want to kick someone's ass and we aren't too picking about who it might be Do you mean that the core of the US population is composed by violent people with psychopathic tendancies?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop