Yeah I guess this guy probably is a GOOD guy
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The UN is a joke, 17 resolutions and Sadaam is still thumbing his nose at the UN. Do you know how many UN resolutions there are against the US? Not to mention those we have vetoed. Remember our adventures in Nicaragua, Guam, etc.? Remember how we assassinated the democratically elected president of Iran and put our puppet, the Shah, in place?
And until the west stops this messing about for short term goals the blood will continue to flow :(( The tigress is here :-D
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That just sounds like an arguement for a long term commitment. I believe that we should commit to being there to help out the people. Iraq probably has an advantage with their having the possibility of using their oil revenues after the conflict. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
I agree. Intervening in an area carries the responsibility of helping to sort out the mess afterwards. Humanitarian considerations aside, if that isn't done the chances are what arises afterwards isn't at all what the nations intervening would expect or be happy with. Sadly, Afghanistan may well turn out to be an example of that. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Doug Goulden wrote: Israel is just as guilty as the Palestinians in the whole conflict I wouldnt blame Israel for much. They are God's chosen poeple. The second America stops supporting Israel, our country will take a huge turn for the worse. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.
They may be God's chosen people, but IMHO they aren't helping themselves by acting the way they have - that just plays into the hands of the extremists on both sides. Fanatics - whether Zionist, Islamic, Christian or something else - are as evil and destabilising to world peace now as they've ever been. It just so happens the Islamic variety is most common in this region at the moment. Before you ask, I am a Christian so I do understand the basis of your argument. I just don't agree that Israel should receive support no matter what it does. It has to exercise responsibility and restraint the same way any civilised nation does, no matter what the provocation. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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>They were God's chosen people. It was renewed recently.. Didn't you read the news GOD NAMES NEXT "CHOSEN PEOPLE"; IT'S JEWS AGAIN --------------------------------------------------
Hilarious! :laugh: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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No, you are being a fanatic along with the rest. More suffering for all ahead :(( The tigress is here :-D
Writing me off as a fanatic for what I said is completely ubsurd. The bible says they are God chosen people and i say i believe that and I am a fanatic? Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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They may be God's chosen people, but IMHO they aren't helping themselves by acting the way they have - that just plays into the hands of the extremists on both sides. Fanatics - whether Zionist, Islamic, Christian or something else - are as evil and destabilising to world peace now as they've ever been. It just so happens the Islamic variety is most common in this region at the moment. Before you ask, I am a Christian so I do understand the basis of your argument. I just don't agree that Israel should receive support no matter what it does. It has to exercise responsibility and restraint the same way any civilised nation does, no matter what the provocation. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
No I agree. I am not going to just give blind allegiance to Israel. But, unfortuantly there will never be peace in the middle east. No resolution, not attacking Iraq, nothing will ever be succsesful. And since you are a Christian you know that the middle east conflict goes all the way back to when Jacob stole the birthright from Esau. They are always going to be at war. So no Israel does not always make good decisions, but if I am going to pick a side, I would rather pick the one my God is on. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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No I agree. I am not going to just give blind allegiance to Israel. But, unfortuantly there will never be peace in the middle east. No resolution, not attacking Iraq, nothing will ever be succsesful. And since you are a Christian you know that the middle east conflict goes all the way back to when Jacob stole the birthright from Esau. They are always going to be at war. So no Israel does not always make good decisions, but if I am going to pick a side, I would rather pick the one my God is on. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
I understand your sentiments, but personally I feel like bashing the heads of all the leaders over there together. It's very, very similar to the situation in Northern Ireland in many ways, and that's still far from being solved. Idiots like Paisley (who should have been defrocked long ago) are still preaching hatred, and until they all die off and their younger recruits drop off it'll never be over. I'm also rather struck by the similarities between the social/political situation in the Middle East now and those in Europe 500 years ago. The Middle East just hasn't grown up yet - despite it's early promise. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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The UN is a joke, 17 resolutions and Sadaam is still thumbing his nose at the UN. Do you know how many UN resolutions there are against the US? Not to mention those we have vetoed. Remember our adventures in Nicaragua, Guam, etc.? Remember how we assassinated the democratically elected president of Iran and put our puppet, the Shah, in place?
Ed Gadziemski wrote: Do you know how many UN resolutions there are against the US? Not to mention those we have vetoed. Remember our adventures in Nicaragua, Guam, etc.? Remember how we assassinated the democratically elected president of Iran and put our puppet, the Shah, in place? Your just helping prove the ineffectiveness of the UN Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: Do you know how many UN resolutions there are against the US? Not to mention those we have vetoed. Remember our adventures in Nicaragua, Guam, etc.? Remember how we assassinated the democratically elected president of Iran and put our puppet, the Shah, in place? Your just helping prove the ineffectiveness of the UN Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
The UN can only work if the majority of governments want it to work. Sadly, governments (or rather, politicians) are too wrapped up in their own self interest to consider the greater benefit of humanity. A lot of the time governments act like children...very, very sneaky children. Despite all this the UN is all we've got at the moment. If we ditch it IMHO things could get a lot worse. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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The UN can only work if the majority of governments want it to work. Sadly, governments (or rather, politicians) are too wrapped up in their own self interest to consider the greater benefit of humanity. A lot of the time governments act like children...very, very sneaky children. Despite all this the UN is all we've got at the moment. If we ditch it IMHO things could get a lot worse. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
I totally agree. Last time the UN ("League of Nation") dissolved we had WWII. I just wasnt following Ed's logic Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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We do yes, but there is a big difference. Just because you are jewish doesnt mean your going to heaven. The jews crucified their savior. Must of them Do not believe that Jesus came to save them, just that he was a good teacher. They believe their messiah has not come yet. They can only get to heaven the same way you or I can. When I mean chosen people I more mean they will be blessed on this earth. And God will bless those that bless them. Why? Because he is God and that is what he promised Abraham. Even for the most part Jews seem to be succesful. The run many businesses and are positions of political power. They also have managed to survive wars that they really should have lost. In revelation much of the end times occurs through Israel. And we as Americans are stupid if we do not acknowledge the fact that we arent the most important nation in the world. Israel is. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
Michael Shuster wrote: They can only get to heaven the same way you or I can. I realize that, therefore they are no longer the chosen people. I am a part of Israel, not the nation as we know it today, but the children of God via the new covenent through Christ. Michael Shuster wrote: When I mean chosen people I more mean they will be blessed on this earth. You mean like the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70, or more like the Diaspora? Or how about the Holocaust or terrorism? Those aren't blessings if you ask me. Michael Shuster wrote: In revelation much of the end times occurs through Israel. And we as Americans are stupid if we do not acknowledge the fact that we arent the most important nation in the world. Israel is. I really don't know nor do I understand what will happen to Israel in the end but I do agree that they will probably be a central part of God's plan. Whether he decides to save them all based on his former covenant, is not up to me.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
No I agree. I am not going to just give blind allegiance to Israel. But, unfortuantly there will never be peace in the middle east. No resolution, not attacking Iraq, nothing will ever be succsesful. And since you are a Christian you know that the middle east conflict goes all the way back to when Jacob stole the birthright from Esau. They are always going to be at war. So no Israel does not always make good decisions, but if I am going to pick a side, I would rather pick the one my God is on. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
It began even further back than that... Gen. 25 12 This is the account of Abraham's son Ishmael, whom Sarah's maidservant, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham. 13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. 17 Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. 18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers. I think Esau was the father of the Edomites (don't know if they're still around), Ishmael is considered the father of the Arabs.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
I totally agree. Last time the UN ("League of Nation") dissolved we had WWII. I just wasnt following Ed's logic Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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In Genesis Chapter 12 God makes a promise to Abraham that he will make a great nation out of him and that nation would be blessed. In verse 3 it then says that "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curseth thee". I do not beleive in Judaism, I simply believe the bible. And yes, although it is strange to many, I believe America should base it's entire Middle East foreign policy on this one sentence in the Bible. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
Michael Shuster wrote: I believe America should base it's entire Middle East foreign policy on this one sentence in the Bible. Where's the difference between your political use of a holy text you do and the talibans one? Mixing secular and temporal goes straight to crusades, inquisitions and religious persecutions.
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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>They were God's chosen people. It was renewed recently.. Didn't you read the news GOD NAMES NEXT "CHOSEN PEOPLE"; IT'S JEWS AGAIN --------------------------------------------------
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We do yes, but there is a big difference. Just because you are jewish doesnt mean your going to heaven. The jews crucified their savior. Must of them Do not believe that Jesus came to save them, just that he was a good teacher. They believe their messiah has not come yet. They can only get to heaven the same way you or I can. When I mean chosen people I more mean they will be blessed on this earth. And God will bless those that bless them. Why? Because he is God and that is what he promised Abraham. Even for the most part Jews seem to be succesful. The run many businesses and are positions of political power. They also have managed to survive wars that they really should have lost. In revelation much of the end times occurs through Israel. And we as Americans are stupid if we do not acknowledge the fact that we arent the most important nation in the world. Israel is. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
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In Genesis Chapter 12 God makes a promise to Abraham that he will make a great nation out of him and that nation would be blessed. In verse 3 it then says that "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curseth thee". I do not beleive in Judaism, I simply believe the bible. And yes, although it is strange to many, I believe America should base it's entire Middle East foreign policy on this one sentence in the Bible. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
What about the famous biblical phrase from a guy named Jesus, "Let he without sin cast the first stone." America has the world's largest quantity of nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and biological weapons. America is the only nation in history that has used nuclear weapons against civilian populations (twice, Nagasaki and Hiroshima). Shouldn't we divest ourselves of WMD before asking anyone else to do so?
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Very much so. One would hope we'd have learnt something since then, but sadly human nature's fundamentally the same so maybe we haven't. I don't know. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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I totally agree. Last time the UN ("League of Nation") dissolved we had WWII. I just wasnt following Ed's logic Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.
Oh yes. People seem to forget that all too often. Public pronouncements by governments stating they'll do what they want regardless of the consensus reached by the UN doesn't help either - I still think the US and UK really screwed up at the outset of this crisis. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
-
Michael Shuster wrote: I believe America should base it's entire Middle East foreign policy on this one sentence in the Bible. Where's the difference between your political use of a holy text you do and the talibans one? Mixing secular and temporal goes straight to crusades, inquisitions and religious persecutions.
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: Where's the difference between your political use of a holy text you do and the talibans one? How about the fact that my relationship with my God oppses killing other people and blowing things up. God works in two major ways. He deals with people and he deals with nations. They are two seperate entities. My eternity has no basis on where I live, what nation I belong, and what my anteion does. But I can not disagree with a verse in the bible that says he will bless them that bless Israel and curse them that curse Israel. I know it is unpopular, but I just cant do that. Michael Shuster Good judgement comes from experience; Experience comes from bad judgement.