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  4. Sutton's Zeroth Law

Sutton's Zeroth Law

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  • M Member_5893260

    I like it. And since the speed of light is a constant, you're right!

    R Offline
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    Richard Deeming
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    Dan Sutton wrote:

    And since the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant

    FTFY. :)


    "These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

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    • M Member_5893260

      Here's my zeroth law of software development, which I now share for your amusement: NQ/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

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      Jorgen Andersson
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      Seems a bit incomplete to me, you need to add the number of managers, and the level of customer involvement AKA feature creep. :~

      Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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      • R Richard Deeming

        Dan Sutton wrote:

        And since the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant

        FTFY. :)


        "These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

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        TheGreatAndPowerfulOz
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        Well, it's a constant in any medium. Just a different constant.

        If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
        You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein

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        • J Jorgen Andersson

          Seems a bit incomplete to me, you need to add the number of managers, and the level of customer involvement AKA feature creep. :~

          Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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          TheGreatAndPowerfulOz
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          :thumbsup::thumbsup:

          If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
          You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein

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          • R Richard Deeming

            Dan Sutton wrote:

            And since the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant

            FTFY. :)


            "These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Member_5893260
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            I thought about it... but that's not strictly true, anyway, if you consider the relativistic effects of high-density, high-mass objects: in fact, "the speed of light in a vacuum around a given mass is a constant" -- but that's not true, either, because the speed of light is the speed at which one can circumnavigate the universe once in a period of one universe lifetime... and since the universe is expanding, that value is changing constantly (along with the size of a meter, and so forth)... so effectively, the speed of light is a constant only because we want it to be.

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            • J Jorgen Andersson

              Seems a bit incomplete to me, you need to add the number of managers, and the level of customer involvement AKA feature creep. :~

              Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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              Member_5893260
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              I'll buy that. Change "programmers" to "people". LOL!

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              • M Member_5893260

                I'll buy that. Change "programmers" to "people". LOL!

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                Jorgen Andersson
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                I was thinking more in the lines of: NQM(2f+1)/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - M is the number of managers on the project; - f is feature creep (in percents of the original number of features); - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                • J Jorgen Andersson

                  I was thinking more in the lines of: NQM(2f+1)/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - M is the number of managers on the project; - f is feature creep (in percents of the original number of features); - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                  Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Why 2f+1 and not f+1 ?

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                  • L Lost User

                    Why 2f+1 and not f+1 ?

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                    Jorgen Andersson
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Doubling the number of features doesn't just double the time needed as it's also adding complexity. Hmm, it's probably more like (f+1)2 when I think about it.

                    Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                    • J Jorgen Andersson

                      I was thinking more in the lines of: NQM(2f+1)/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - M is the number of managers on the project; - f is feature creep (in percents of the original number of features); - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                      Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                      M Offline
                      Member_5893260
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      Brilliant! Although... since you don't want to affect N inversely with M, then I suggest: (N^(M(2f+1)))Q/t=c ...which, since M implies 2f+1, could theoretically be shortened to: (N^M)Q/t=c (or else, we could include a constant to state the probability of someone posting a thread like this...)

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                      • M Member_5893260

                        Here's my zeroth law of software development, which I now share for your amusement: NQ/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                        M Offline
                        M Offline
                        MacSpudster
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        NQ/t=c is incorrect. It is: NQ/t=C^2 Where "C" = Change; as in "_________ in my pocket" from all of the "_________ requests"

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                        • M MacSpudster

                          NQ/t=c is incorrect. It is: NQ/t=C^2 Where "C" = Change; as in "_________ in my pocket" from all of the "_________ requests"

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                          Member_5893260
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          That's the spirit!

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                          • J Jorgen Andersson

                            I was thinking more in the lines of: NQM(2f+1)/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - M is the number of managers on the project; - f is feature creep (in percents of the original number of features); - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                            Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                            SoMad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            I think we are getting somewhere, but you also need to account for "New Technology" with a heavier factor than feature creep (e.g. "We are going to change our platform to be all in the Cloud"). Soren Madsen

                            "When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty

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                            • S SoMad

                              I think we are getting somewhere, but you also need to account for "New Technology" with a heavier factor than feature creep (e.g. "We are going to change our platform to be all in the Cloud"). Soren Madsen

                              "When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty

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                              Jorgen Andersson
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              Nah, a new technology is a whole load of features in one go, you just need to break them apart and the formula will still work.

                              Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]

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                              • L Lost User

                                Why 2f+1 and not f+1 ?

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                                PIEBALDconsult
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                learner'sbug wrote:

                                not f+1 ?

                                Because f+1 is a race with no passing.

                                This space intentionally left blank.

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                                • M Member_5893260

                                  Here's my zeroth law of software development, which I now share for your amusement: NQ/t=c, where: - N is the number of programmers on the project; - Q is the quality of the final product; - t is the time taken to develop the product; - c is a constant

                                  0 Offline
                                  0 Offline
                                  0bx
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  Not so sure about that. If either N or Q are 0, then c = 0. Knowing this and assuming c is a constant, then t = lim(x->inf), or lim(x->-inf).

                                  .

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                                  • M Member_5893260

                                    I thought about it... but that's not strictly true, anyway, if you consider the relativistic effects of high-density, high-mass objects: in fact, "the speed of light in a vacuum around a given mass is a constant" -- but that's not true, either, because the speed of light is the speed at which one can circumnavigate the universe once in a period of one universe lifetime... and since the universe is expanding, that value is changing constantly (along with the size of a meter, and so forth)... so effectively, the speed of light is a constant only because we want it to be.

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                                    robocodeboy
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    No. In a vacuum the speed of light is constant. No exceptions. The light can be bent by mass, but not slowed down. The universe is expanding, yes, so the light is going to need more and more time to travel across it, but the speed is still constant. No implications about it. In fact, relativity states that the speed of light in a vacuum is the ONLY thing that remains constant in different reference systems. Which can get you down in a very deep rabbit hole: time shrinks and space expands, but whoever are you, wherever are you, you will still get around 300'000 km/s for a ray of light in a vacuum.

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                                    • R robocodeboy

                                      No. In a vacuum the speed of light is constant. No exceptions. The light can be bent by mass, but not slowed down. The universe is expanding, yes, so the light is going to need more and more time to travel across it, but the speed is still constant. No implications about it. In fact, relativity states that the speed of light in a vacuum is the ONLY thing that remains constant in different reference systems. Which can get you down in a very deep rabbit hole: time shrinks and space expands, but whoever are you, wherever are you, you will still get around 300'000 km/s for a ray of light in a vacuum.

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                                      Member_5893260
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      Yes, but the size of a kilometer changes as the universe expands. So does the size of the instruments used to measure it, and the atoms constituting said instruments, so we don't notice... but to an outside (the universe) observer, a difference would be noticeable.

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                                      • 0 0bx

                                        Not so sure about that. If either N or Q are 0, then c = 0. Knowing this and assuming c is a constant, then t = lim(x->inf), or lim(x->-inf).

                                        .

                                        M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Member_5893260
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        Well, it almost makes sense: if you have no programmers, it's not really supposed to mean anything...

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                                        • M Member_5893260

                                          I thought about it... but that's not strictly true, anyway, if you consider the relativistic effects of high-density, high-mass objects: in fact, "the speed of light in a vacuum around a given mass is a constant" -- but that's not true, either, because the speed of light is the speed at which one can circumnavigate the universe once in a period of one universe lifetime... and since the universe is expanding, that value is changing constantly (along with the size of a meter, and so forth)... so effectively, the speed of light is a constant only because we want it to be.

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                                          Tim Carmichael
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          Is the universe expanding, or it is simply our abilty to see further into the universe that is expanding? If we can't see the reaches of the universe, how can we know that it is expanding? And, if it is expanding, what is it expanding into? Does the absence of matter mean that space doesn't exist?

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