Why the world hates the apathetic Americans (long)
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And you've hit the nail right on the head of cowardice. Come on man, this is the Soapbox, why post anonymously? :suss:
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
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This is a continuation of the following thread from the Lounge: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=435671#xx435671xx[^] Joe Woodbury wrote: This is amazingly ignorant crap which displays a complete misunderstanding of the Constitution and the purposes of America's founding fathers. LOL- you are the one who is completely and unfathomably ignorant. A diehard Republican so completely drunk in stupidity you want to believe what you've been led to believe because it makes you feel good and better about yourself. The alternative is too frightenly depressing for you. You think our founding fathers were the most brilliant and fore-sighted individuals ever to walk this Earth? Nine American presidents owned slaves. Nine. The eloquent Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote that "all men are created equal" refused to release his slaves, even on his deathbed. George Washington released his, but only when he was near death. These great American founding fathers thought of Africans as non-human, as just animals to be used like horses and cattle. Our founding fathers, while brilliant in their designs for a free America, are extremely poor choices of character. There are 27 amendments to the Constitution... obviously they did not get it completely right the first time. Time, cultural changes, societal changes, they all affect reasons for amending our Constitution. The electoral college is long overdue for an amendment. I can't tell you the "purposes of America's founding fathers" any more than you can, since neither of us were alive at the time to interview them. All I can tell is that the system is porked and leads to the two disasters I mentioned. Since we're talking about elections... In the 1968 election, North Carolina voted Republican, so the 13 Republican electors were voted into the Electoral College. When that College convened, one Republican stalwart from North Carolina voted for Wallace as a protest vote. There is no constitutional requirement that the electoral college vote the same as the popular vote. Many states require their "anonymous" electoral constituents sign a pledge to vote the way the popular vote went, but that is something left to the states, and as was proven in 1968, does not even imply that these constituents have to follow it. Do you dispute th
Quit avoiding the real issue... Your pissed off at the world and haven't been laid in a loooong time. ;P Jeremy Falcon Imputek
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Anonymous wrote: Over-dramatize much? Nearly 3000 people lost their lives on 9/11/01. Innocent American civilians. No, I don't think I'm over-dramatizing it. If terrorists were actually intelligent and more capable, instead of idiotic and incapable, I'm sure similar acts would be carried out on a much more routine basis. Just as it is in other countries, such as Israel... particularly at the present moment. The fact is the U.S. spends billions on defense and intelligence, so these dumbfu*k terrorists can't succeed here in the U.S. with the same kinds of tactics used in other countries. :mad: Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
TyMatthews wrote: Innocent American civilians. {tongue-in-cheek) They were obviously not that innocent - if they were more 'aware' of American loathing abroad like you claim they should be, they probably wouldn't have chosen to work at such a visible target. (/tongue-in-cheek) And if they weren't killed for their awareness/lack of awareness of the 'truth' as you put it, what puts the 'free thinkers' like yourself in more danger of dying than the rest of us? :zzz:
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This is a continuation of the following thread from the Lounge: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=435671#xx435671xx[^] Joe Woodbury wrote: This is amazingly ignorant crap which displays a complete misunderstanding of the Constitution and the purposes of America's founding fathers. LOL- you are the one who is completely and unfathomably ignorant. A diehard Republican so completely drunk in stupidity you want to believe what you've been led to believe because it makes you feel good and better about yourself. The alternative is too frightenly depressing for you. You think our founding fathers were the most brilliant and fore-sighted individuals ever to walk this Earth? Nine American presidents owned slaves. Nine. The eloquent Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote that "all men are created equal" refused to release his slaves, even on his deathbed. George Washington released his, but only when he was near death. These great American founding fathers thought of Africans as non-human, as just animals to be used like horses and cattle. Our founding fathers, while brilliant in their designs for a free America, are extremely poor choices of character. There are 27 amendments to the Constitution... obviously they did not get it completely right the first time. Time, cultural changes, societal changes, they all affect reasons for amending our Constitution. The electoral college is long overdue for an amendment. I can't tell you the "purposes of America's founding fathers" any more than you can, since neither of us were alive at the time to interview them. All I can tell is that the system is porked and leads to the two disasters I mentioned. Since we're talking about elections... In the 1968 election, North Carolina voted Republican, so the 13 Republican electors were voted into the Electoral College. When that College convened, one Republican stalwart from North Carolina voted for Wallace as a protest vote. There is no constitutional requirement that the electoral college vote the same as the popular vote. Many states require their "anonymous" electoral constituents sign a pledge to vote the way the popular vote went, but that is something left to the states, and as was proven in 1968, does not even imply that these constituents have to follow it. Do you dispute th
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0103-02.htm[^] http://www.montanaforum.com/rednews/2003/03/03/build/freedoms/freeguest.php?nnn=3[^] Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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Quit avoiding the real issue... Your pissed off at the world and haven't been laid in a loooong time. ;P Jeremy Falcon Imputek
LOL, maybe that's my problem! :laugh: Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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A couple of things: If I was filled with this much hate and disgust for where I lived and the way my government operated I would: 1) take positive action to effect change, 2) leave the country and settle elsewhere, 3) pick up a gun, literally, and lead a revolution. or die from an ulcerated stomach. And, by the way, I don't give a sh*t about what the world thinks. Mike
I don't have disgust for where I live. I have disgust for the government in control of where I live. I love America, or at least the America we once had. I love what our Constitution has provided us. That said, the current situation is not the same America as what I've been led to believe, and I'm trying to work towards restoring the America of old. Moving to another country would be cowardly and too easy of a way out. Besides, who the fu*k wants to live in Cananda? :laugh: I'm fighting for what I believe in. Hence my intense passion and fervor at the present moment. I'm fighting for a free world again, a free America. Not one where you have to wait two hours to get on a plane. The airlines are planning on assessing all passengers as to their "terrorist threat." Not an America where our government feels compelled to hide and conceal records and information that should be made public. Our civil liberties are dwindling on a daily basis. Is this the America you grew up believing in, or want to believe in? Don't give me any of that "reduced freedoms for sake of national security" bullsh!t. Just another ploy to make you accept the fact your freedoms are now limited. I'm attempting to effect change. My first step is public awareness, which is exactly what I'm doing here. I have my name and e-mail address on these posts. I'm surely on some NSA and/or FBI list by now. I don't care what the American sheep think of what I believe, I'm posting this to raise awareness. Hopefully, I'll shed some light to even one other person, and that person will in turn spread knowledge and more free thought. I'm planning on purchasing weapons. I need to find an organization that is trying to effect a change first. That is my next step. I'm sure there are some already established. Not giving a sh!t about what the world thinks is why they hate us. Your stance is exactly what I'm talking about. You only feel good and confident in saying that because the U.S. has the most powerful military in the world, and no one would dare try and stand up to it. You stand behind our tanks, stealth bombers, and nukes and say whatever you please. That is your right, as is mine. I just prefer to live peacefully with the world, to achieve a common good and further humanity, not live in constant threat of global destruction and instant war because you happen to live in a desert with oil beneath your feet. My third step is to eliminate the world's dependency on oil. I plan on doing this by leaving the corporate I
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Exactly. Guys like Ty buy into conspiracy theories that would make a John Bircher blush. The truth is far more apparent - the Democrat/liberal/socialists have had the Supreme Court doing their political heavy lifting for the better part of 50 years. Now that the court is beginning to reassert its contitutional responsibilities thanks to guys like Antony Scalia, the other side goes nuts. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Your reasoning is far too simplistic. This isn't about the Supreme Court. The discussion on theft of the 2000 election was a tangent, when someone questioned my knowledge of the electoral college. I'm trying to discuss the reasons for why we're willing to go to war with Iraq without U.N. support, and why the world at large despises Americans. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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TyMatthews wrote: Innocent American civilians. {tongue-in-cheek) They were obviously not that innocent - if they were more 'aware' of American loathing abroad like you claim they should be, they probably wouldn't have chosen to work at such a visible target. (/tongue-in-cheek) And if they weren't killed for their awareness/lack of awareness of the 'truth' as you put it, what puts the 'free thinkers' like yourself in more danger of dying than the rest of us? :zzz:
My point is that the terrorists do not distinguish between those Americans that blindly support their idiot president and those that oppose him. We are all lumped together as the "evil aggressors" of the world, no matter what we truly believe. One bad apple ruins the pie. They simply want us all to die... horribly, at that... even if some of us do want to make a change and attempt to restore the America of old. Nazi Germany in the 30s and early 40s... do you think all Germans were in agreement with Hitler and his high officers on their policy towards the Jews? On world domination at all costs? If not, why then did SO many of them participate? Why did so many German civilians not have any idea what was happening in the concentration camps in their own backyards? They were blind to it... apathetic... uncaring. They trusted their leader completely, without question. If he says it's so, then it must be so. I'm not drawing a straight line between Nazism and the Bush family, since I don't think they're planning on gassing all Arab-Americans. I'm only making an analogy between an apathetic public that is willing to buy into the propaganda spilled forth by their government and its media installations. Everyone who refuses to think on their own will label me a conspiracy theorist and a nutjob. Well, I'm willing to live with that. I just won't be able to gloat about it to you all in 50 years when the truth is finally fully known. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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Stan Shannon wrote: I'm merely concerned about the guy's blood pressure. :-D "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
http://www.codeproject.com/script/comments/forums.asp?forumid=2605&select=437162&tid=436479&exp=1&app=50&df=100&msg=437162#xx437145xx[^] That's how I'm planning to effect change. I love America. I've lived here of course all my life. My friends, family members, people I love. There are a lot of good people here. And as has been demonstrated across the country lately, many hundreds of thousands of other Americans are willing to stand up and voice their disgust for the Bush family's oppression of the world. We can make a difference... my point in even posting here is to try and convince others. The best way I know how, being an IT geek, is through methods like this. I would not otherwise, for I have violent video games to channel my anger :-D Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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My point is that the terrorists do not distinguish between those Americans that blindly support their idiot president and those that oppose him. We are all lumped together as the "evil aggressors" of the world, no matter what we truly believe. One bad apple ruins the pie. They simply want us all to die... horribly, at that... even if some of us do want to make a change and attempt to restore the America of old. Nazi Germany in the 30s and early 40s... do you think all Germans were in agreement with Hitler and his high officers on their policy towards the Jews? On world domination at all costs? If not, why then did SO many of them participate? Why did so many German civilians not have any idea what was happening in the concentration camps in their own backyards? They were blind to it... apathetic... uncaring. They trusted their leader completely, without question. If he says it's so, then it must be so. I'm not drawing a straight line between Nazism and the Bush family, since I don't think they're planning on gassing all Arab-Americans. I'm only making an analogy between an apathetic public that is willing to buy into the propaganda spilled forth by their government and its media installations. Everyone who refuses to think on their own will label me a conspiracy theorist and a nutjob. Well, I'm willing to live with that. I just won't be able to gloat about it to you all in 50 years when the truth is finally fully known. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
TyMatthews wrote: Everyone who refuses to think on their own will label me a conspiracy theorist and a nutjob. Well, I'm willing to live with that. I just won't be able to gloat about it to you all in 50 years when the truth is finally fully known. What you label 'free-thinking' is merely your own cause's propaganda. :zzz:
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I don't have disgust for where I live. I have disgust for the government in control of where I live. I love America, or at least the America we once had. I love what our Constitution has provided us. That said, the current situation is not the same America as what I've been led to believe, and I'm trying to work towards restoring the America of old. Moving to another country would be cowardly and too easy of a way out. Besides, who the fu*k wants to live in Cananda? :laugh: I'm fighting for what I believe in. Hence my intense passion and fervor at the present moment. I'm fighting for a free world again, a free America. Not one where you have to wait two hours to get on a plane. The airlines are planning on assessing all passengers as to their "terrorist threat." Not an America where our government feels compelled to hide and conceal records and information that should be made public. Our civil liberties are dwindling on a daily basis. Is this the America you grew up believing in, or want to believe in? Don't give me any of that "reduced freedoms for sake of national security" bullsh!t. Just another ploy to make you accept the fact your freedoms are now limited. I'm attempting to effect change. My first step is public awareness, which is exactly what I'm doing here. I have my name and e-mail address on these posts. I'm surely on some NSA and/or FBI list by now. I don't care what the American sheep think of what I believe, I'm posting this to raise awareness. Hopefully, I'll shed some light to even one other person, and that person will in turn spread knowledge and more free thought. I'm planning on purchasing weapons. I need to find an organization that is trying to effect a change first. That is my next step. I'm sure there are some already established. Not giving a sh!t about what the world thinks is why they hate us. Your stance is exactly what I'm talking about. You only feel good and confident in saying that because the U.S. has the most powerful military in the world, and no one would dare try and stand up to it. You stand behind our tanks, stealth bombers, and nukes and say whatever you please. That is your right, as is mine. I just prefer to live peacefully with the world, to achieve a common good and further humanity, not live in constant threat of global destruction and instant war because you happen to live in a desert with oil beneath your feet. My third step is to eliminate the world's dependency on oil. I plan on doing this by leaving the corporate I
TyMatthews wrote: I'm planning on purchasing weapons. I need to find an organization that is trying to effect a change first. That is my next step. I'm sure there are some already established. I hear Al-Qaida is having a membership drive. They're also trying to affect change in American politics. And really, if you intend to use the weapons you're purchasing on other Americans, then you're no different than they are. :zzz:
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Your reasoning is far too simplistic. This isn't about the Supreme Court. The discussion on theft of the 2000 election was a tangent, when someone questioned my knowledge of the electoral college. I'm trying to discuss the reasons for why we're willing to go to war with Iraq without U.N. support, and why the world at large despises Americans. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
TyMatthews wrote: why we're willing to go to war with Iraq without U.N. support because GWB believes the US is a shining paragon of Christian virtue that doesn't need the UN's approval to embark on any crazy adventure it pleases. might makes right, and the dark-skinned forrunners will learn that lesson the hard way - just like the IRA, the Palestinians, the Chechnyans, and the American colonies all learned. he thinks he can whip the anti-American countries into a nice line... by invading them and installing governments of his choosing. -c
When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.
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jan larsen wrote: he has shown that he is prepared to do something about it inside the frames of the democratic structure. And what might that be? What I read tells me he has no faith in the political process, elections, so we're left with the communication on a technical site - which, sarcasm aside, does little other than let you state your beliefs in a public forum. If you really want to effect change, run for office, work for your candidate, march in the streets, or? jan larsen wrote: Second: Revolution in a democratic society to achieve democracy?, Huh?!... I didn't see where he believed it existed. What I read told me that it has been a farce from day one. Mike
http://www.codeproject.com/script/comments/forums.asp?forumid=2605&select=437167&tid=436479&exp=1&app=50&df=100&msg=437167#xx437145xx[^] That right now is my course of action. Thanks for participating in the discussion, this is really excellent stuff. My reasons for posting on a tech board is simple. Everyone here is by and large above-average in intelligence, and thus much more likely to be open-minded. I wouldn't get any "converts" posting this on a board already filled with people who feel the same way. The discussions and replies have so far been pretty civilized. A few who felt threatened and of course many who question my sanity/health. Thanks everyone for all the concern, but I'm actually very physically healthy. I don't take medication (some would argue I should, eh?) and have no ills. Bottling my feelings and opinions up inside would be far worse than posting my feelings on a techie board :) Related to the democratic process, I don't believe you can make a difference there. Not in today's structure. You have to be corruptible to get into any public position of importance. Our two-party system ensures this will remain so. You have to have some "dirt" on you, so that if you get crazy and start threatening to blow the whole thing wide open, those in position can just "yank the blackmail chain" and rein you back in. That is why all politicians have some dirt to them. Clinton was reined in during his second term with all the sex scandals (Paula Jones, Monica, he's sterile, Hillary is a lesbian and CIA match, Chelsea was fathered by ??, etc.) If they feel blackmail is not strong enough, you get whacked. Just look at all the high-profile people that "committed suicide" during Clinton's reign of terror. You can't believe Vincent Foster truly committed suicide. Republicans surely would admit to that, and even some Democrats. If you're not blackmail material, you have to be extremely close to those who are already in high positions (Dubya.) Nepotism and corruption is rampant in American politics. I don't know anyone that high up, so I'm stuck with attempting to effect change via the current methods. I don't yet know how to make a change in that regard... my a
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http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0103-02.htm[^] http://www.montanaforum.com/rednews/2003/03/03/build/freedoms/freeguest.php?nnn=3[^] Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
It's always refreshing to see highly opinionated articles that have no sources or references, which of course greatly lends to their credibility. Did you know that Bush is planning to have Hawaii air-lifted out of the ocean and dropped on Iraq? They call it the Meke-leke-miki-bomb, and it must be true, because I read about it ON THE INTERNET. :zzz:
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TyMatthews wrote: I'm planning on purchasing weapons. I need to find an organization that is trying to effect a change first. That is my next step. I'm sure there are some already established. I hear Al-Qaida is having a membership drive. They're also trying to affect change in American politics. And really, if you intend to use the weapons you're purchasing on other Americans, then you're no different than they are. :zzz:
Al Qaida is not trying to change American politics. They want to destroy and murder all Americans, regardless of who they are or what they believe. That is completely opposite of what I want to do. I want to make change from within. We need to root out the bad apples and trim the fat. That can only happen from within. The weapons I'm planning on purchasing are for self defense. Many crazy people here in the U.S. do not like their beliefs being questioned. As evidenced by the responses I've gotten here. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
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TyMatthews wrote: Everyone who refuses to think on their own will label me a conspiracy theorist and a nutjob. Well, I'm willing to live with that. I just won't be able to gloat about it to you all in 50 years when the truth is finally fully known. What you label 'free-thinking' is merely your own cause's propaganda. :zzz:
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It looks like you are not getting the point. He seems to have a more balanced outlook than you. The sleeping icon don't make you any smart.
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Al Qaida is not trying to change American politics. They want to destroy and murder all Americans, regardless of who they are or what they believe. That is completely opposite of what I want to do. I want to make change from within. We need to root out the bad apples and trim the fat. That can only happen from within. The weapons I'm planning on purchasing are for self defense. Many crazy people here in the U.S. do not like their beliefs being questioned. As evidenced by the responses I've gotten here. Ty
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein
Both you and Al-Qaida are striving to change the world from what it is into what you believe is should be. You're not opposites. The only difference is how far are you willing to go to enact _your_ changes? Peaceful protests? Civil war? Hostages? Bombings? Assassinations? How many lives is your vision of America worth? (Okay, yeah, now I'm being over-dramatic.) :zzz:
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It's always refreshing to see highly opinionated articles that have no sources or references, which of course greatly lends to their credibility. Did you know that Bush is planning to have Hawaii air-lifted out of the ocean and dropped on Iraq? They call it the Meke-leke-miki-bomb, and it must be true, because I read about it ON THE INTERNET. :zzz: