Do software developers really need degrees?
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No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
I think you are right and I myself have never been proven wrong on any issue where no one else knows my opinion. :) You are 110% right though. Maybe even upwards of 112%. Seriously, totally agree with your total spot-on rightness. Because some people who get degress are [terrible] [great] [programmers] and those who do not are also. :D
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I've been a developer for just over 10 years. I have no degree. I've had numerous recruiters after me and numerous job offers. So I'll cast my vote into the "No" column on this one. The degree may help get you that first job, but after that it's all on you, your abilities, and your work ethic.
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School has always been about getting a piece of paper which is why many engineering disciplines used to work off the basis of apprenticeship. However - as is also the case with money - the problems arise when people place value on the piece of paper not the underlying meaning of that paper. In the case of a college education the worth of the piece of paper is as proof that you can spend considerable amounts of time doing pointless work for people whose only real qualification is that they are much older than you. This is a perfect metaphor for work - especially if you end up working for me :-) :doh:
Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:
proof that you can spend considerable amounts of time doing pointless work for people whose only real qualification is that they are much older than you
Actually most of the people I do work for are younger than me.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I think it depends on whether you and prospective employers consider software development a means or an end. I have several degrees (and about to add one more, hopefully), but none of them are in IT or CS or anything related. My degrees are in engineering. Software development is a means to an end, learned as needed.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I agree with the original statement: "Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything." Some people with a degree don't even know simple bitwise arithmetic or how a hashtable works. (because their education doesn't teach them) Some people without a degree can do amazing things. (because they figure out how themselves)
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
Heck no. 1. Was a litigation attorney in Texas 30 year ago. 2. Moved to California. 3. Took two extension classes (C programming and the UNIX operating system) at a local university. 4. Took the California bar exam. 5. Took a job programming at a small cross compiler company, wrote the ANSI C runtime library, a RAM disk controller and a command driver. 6. Found out I had passed the bar exam and was qualified to practice law in California. 7. Never looked back. All you need is some knowledge, a lot of passion, and a knack for it.
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
The bachelors degree is a white collar union card*. You can have the skills to do the job without one; but in a lot of places you're not going to be able to get in the door without one. Depending on what/where you want to work this may or may not be an issue. * Think electricians/plumbers/etc hiring hall, not UAW/UMWA/SEIU/etc.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
John Somnex wrote:
If you have a degree that you worked hard for and paid a large amount of money for, you are more inclined to believe that piece of paper has more value than it really does. If you don’t have a degree, you are probably more inclined to believe that degrees are worthless and completely unnecessary—even though you may secretly wish you had one. So, whatever side you fall on, I am going to ask you to momentarily suspend your beliefs—well, biases really—and consider that both views are not exactly correct, that there is a middle-ground somewhere in between the two viewpoints where a degree isn’t necessarily worthless and it isn’t necessarily valuable either.
Hard to believe people get paid to write this kind of stuff. :| /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I have a PhD in Computer Science and have been a developer for over 35 years. I found in a couple of cases I didn't get a job because I had a PhD and my potential boss didn't - I removed it from my CV along with three years as a teaching Professor and managed finally to get a real job! The PhD itself is so out of date that, from what little of it I remember, it is almost completely obsolete as far as being useful in my current job. Degrees are bits of paper that say what you were able to remember enough about to pass an exam or two - very little of which will remain in your memory or of any use in the real world.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I don't think that all developers need degrees, but I did. Without my degree, I would have never been able to get the job I have today. My employer has very strict hiring standards. A degree is absolutely required to even be able to apply for my position.
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But, at the same time, I believe you can get by perfectly well without one—you’ll just have a few less opportunities—a few more doors that are closed to you. For a software developer, the most important thing is the ability to write code. If you can demonstrate that ability, most employers will hire you—at least it has been my experience that this is the case.
I agree with the author on this point. There are many places that will hire without a degree, but you will have many more opportunities with one regardless whether or not you view it as just a piece of paper. Kudos the developers that were able to make it without a degree.