Resistant to Change
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Nothing, as long as they remain just that: opinions. When they become trolling...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I got that, I did get carried away, and was bullied by one of your aged members; that I am sorry. This was the first abusive message from that user http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4867367/Re-Threshold-is-Windows-so-shut-up-about.aspx[^] It took him calling me moron about 50 times before I slipped and responded with hate.
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Windows 8 is a huge change on how things are done, and if you don't change to the new way of doing things then you will have a uphill battle to do all the tricks you are used to. All because you did not adapt to the new way of doing something does not make the concept a failure. Windows Metro is the code basis for both Xbox One and Windows Phone, the future of the company is in these two technologies, Windows 8 is the first Desktop OS to integrate with that code basis. The coding abilities are the strong point in 8 and is what should shine. Windows OneCore will be more of that dream to have one code structure across all devices, sadly the desktop and the old way of doing things does not fit in this new idea.
ColborneGreg wrote:
Windows 8 is a huge change on how things are done
And it's clearly a change that desktop uses don't want. Looks great for tablets, but I don't want tiles on my desktop. Now if the innards are shared, that's just fine. Common code on that level is usually a good thing, and should make it more stable and compatible. But their window manager, to speak of it in *NIX terms, leaves something to be desired. Tiles are for tablets, windows are for desktops. Putting a few live tiles into the start menu, which they seem to be doing in the next version, is cool. I'm good with that. But making me switch my ENTIRE screen to a bunch of tiles just to launch an application? Epic fail. I know you're going to talk about how important the inner parts are... But when I get home from work, all I want to do is check my e-mail, browse the web, and play games... Sometimes I'll pop into LibreOffice or mess around with other things. I don't care about the innards. They need to JUST WORK. I care about the GUI, and tiles are pointless when I have a mouse and keyboard. And on that note, when I'm AT work, I don't want tiles there either. Fortunately, my company just recently upgraded to Win7, so I don't see them upgrading again anytime soon. Hell, I'm stuck developing on VS2010... No async/await for me :( So... Windows 8... Seen it. Not buying it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
ColborneGreg wrote:
Windows 8 is a huge change on how things are done
And it's clearly a change that desktop uses don't want. Looks great for tablets, but I don't want tiles on my desktop. Now if the innards are shared, that's just fine. Common code on that level is usually a good thing, and should make it more stable and compatible. But their window manager, to speak of it in *NIX terms, leaves something to be desired. Tiles are for tablets, windows are for desktops. Putting a few live tiles into the start menu, which they seem to be doing in the next version, is cool. I'm good with that. But making me switch my ENTIRE screen to a bunch of tiles just to launch an application? Epic fail. I know you're going to talk about how important the inner parts are... But when I get home from work, all I want to do is check my e-mail, browse the web, and play games... Sometimes I'll pop into LibreOffice or mess around with other things. I don't care about the innards. They need to JUST WORK. I care about the GUI, and tiles are pointless when I have a mouse and keyboard. And on that note, when I'm AT work, I don't want tiles there either. Fortunately, my company just recently upgraded to Win7, so I don't see them upgrading again anytime soon. Hell, I'm stuck developing on VS2010... No async/await for me :( So... Windows 8... Seen it. Not buying it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I get them from the majority of computer people that have a history with computers and are engrained in a way of doing things as you pointed out, which is fine, normal, and because of that changing to Windows 8 is not good; but for anyone that is not a computer geek, they most of the time are taken back and have bad things to say about Windows 8, but every single one of them that I have coached has come to realise why things are done the way their are done in Windows 8, and to get rid of Metro would be to go backwards for them.
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DOS: Ahh, the good old days... I spent so much time messing around in QBasic and TurboC... And playing Scorched Earth. Windows 3.11: So insecure that when they put a computer lab in my high school, I hacked it in five minutes so I could play Minesweeper (Teaches them to lock out the games!) Windows 95: Had to set up a software firewall just so the script kiddies on IRC couldn't drop an ICMP on 139 to BSOD me. On the other hand, having that in place made it REALLY fun to taunt those script kiddies. Windows 98: Fixed most of the problems with Windows 95, and was great as long as you turned off that crap on the desktop. Windows Me: Yes, I actually had this. This was before I started buying/building my own machines. Wow... So bad... So so bad... Windows XP: Finally, something that worked! Well, after a service pack or two... But hey, it was a lot more stable than WinMe! Windows Vista: I know... I know... But I got a REALLY good deal on a machine about six months before Windows 7 came out. It came with a free upgrade, so I just didn't actually commit to the new machine (Stuck with my old XP box) until I got the upgrade. Windows 7: Better than XP... Best one yet. No complaints... Well, not many... I mean, my machine doesn't always post, and sometimes it locks up hard or bluescreens, but I'm pretty sure it's a hardware issue. Windows 8: Everyone keeps telling me, "Just download ____ to fix the start menu and it's great!" But if you have to get third-party add-ons just to make it usable, doesn't that mean it's a failure? Thanks, but I'll wait for Windows 9 and hope it sucks less than 8... And I wish they'd hurry up, because I'm in the mood to buy a new computer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)DOS: I spent more time playing with AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS trying to get the best memory config for a game, than I did playing the game...:sigh: Until DOOM of course. That consumed a year or two of my life. WIN3.11: Introduced LANs that didn't need a full-time network admin and exploded networking into small companies. Remember what we had before it? Novell Netware command line interface, anyone? :ack: :spit: Win95: Good for it's time, but over hyped by MS. Plug and Pray a big disappointment. Win98: Better than 95 once you got it running properly. Win2000 and ME: O. My. God. No. Just No. X| XP: Good. Solid, quick, easy. Plug and Pray started to work. Vista: Avoided. I'd like to say "wisely", but that would be a lie. Win7: Best so far - it works, and doesn't have too many weird ones. Win8: Oh dear. A phone OS trying to work on the desktop. Horrible to install, horrible to use. It may work well once you use it as a phone OS - but I use desktops so it can go sit in the corner and play with itself. Major mistake by MS, as the sales figures have shown. Only time since DOS4 that people have upgraded en mass back to the previous version to get rid of it...and the 8.1 patch was too little, too late. Win9: Hopefully a goodie - but I think it will have to be to get over the Win8 debacle, in the same way the Win7 had to be with vista.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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I get them from the majority of computer people that have a history with computers and are engrained in a way of doing things as you pointed out, which is fine, normal, and because of that changing to Windows 8 is not good; but for anyone that is not a computer geek, they most of the time are taken back and have bad things to say about Windows 8, but every single one of them that I have coached has come to realise why things are done the way their are done in Windows 8, and to get rid of Metro would be to go backwards for them.
That quick autocomplete box at the bottom of the Start Menu was an AMAZING addition to Win7... No more searching through that All Programs tree to find some obscure thing buried among five hundred other useless applications. Huge step forward. Being able to hit the start key, type a few letters, and hit enter to bring up an accessory like Calculator or Regedit or Notepad, without even touching the mouse or taking my eyes off what I'm doing... Huge step forward. Opening up a full-screen mess of live tiles every time I want to launch an application that I don't use often enough to put on my taskbar? Huge step backward. http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-9-release-date-beta-preview-start-menu-screenshots[^] <-- That looks like a good start menu. That's what I'm waiting for.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
That quick autocomplete box at the bottom of the Start Menu was an AMAZING addition to Win7... No more searching through that All Programs tree to find some obscure thing buried among five hundred other useless applications. Huge step forward. Being able to hit the start key, type a few letters, and hit enter to bring up an accessory like Calculator or Regedit or Notepad, without even touching the mouse or taking my eyes off what I'm doing... Huge step forward. Opening up a full-screen mess of live tiles every time I want to launch an application that I don't use often enough to put on my taskbar? Huge step backward. http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-9-release-date-beta-preview-start-menu-screenshots[^] <-- That looks like a good start menu. That's what I'm waiting for.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)In windows 8 - you just start typing from the start menu. You can still press the start key and just start typing. There is also a swipe bar on the right; move your mouse to the top right or bottom right, then move your mouse up or down to activate the Charms bar. You can click the search charm to locate a program you want.
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In windows 8 - you just start typing from the start menu. You can still press the start key and just start typing. There is also a swipe bar on the right; move your mouse to the top right or bottom right, then move your mouse up or down to activate the Charms bar. You can click the search charm to locate a program you want.
You missed the part about the entire screen switching to a mess of tiles while I'm trying to read something.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You missed the part about the entire screen switching to a mess of tiles while I'm trying to read something.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)That's why I mentioned the charms bar which does not take away from your experience. The search result will show on the flyout pane on the right, so you can use that application with ease.
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That's why I mentioned the charms bar which does not take away from your experience. The search result will show on the flyout pane on the right, so you can use that application with ease.
So, still something that requires me to divert my attention away from whatever I'm doing... Why does Microsoft suddenly hate keyboards? (Keyboard + Muscle Memory) > (Mouse + Hunting for crap on a charms bar)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
So, still something that requires me to divert my attention away from whatever I'm doing... Why does Microsoft suddenly hate keyboards? (Keyboard + Muscle Memory) > (Mouse + Hunting for crap on a charms bar)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying
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DOS: I spent more time playing with AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS trying to get the best memory config for a game, than I did playing the game...:sigh: Until DOOM of course. That consumed a year or two of my life. WIN3.11: Introduced LANs that didn't need a full-time network admin and exploded networking into small companies. Remember what we had before it? Novell Netware command line interface, anyone? :ack: :spit: Win95: Good for it's time, but over hyped by MS. Plug and Pray a big disappointment. Win98: Better than 95 once you got it running properly. Win2000 and ME: O. My. God. No. Just No. X| XP: Good. Solid, quick, easy. Plug and Pray started to work. Vista: Avoided. I'd like to say "wisely", but that would be a lie. Win7: Best so far - it works, and doesn't have too many weird ones. Win8: Oh dear. A phone OS trying to work on the desktop. Horrible to install, horrible to use. It may work well once you use it as a phone OS - but I use desktops so it can go sit in the corner and play with itself. Major mistake by MS, as the sales figures have shown. Only time since DOS4 that people have upgraded en mass back to the previous version to get rid of it...and the 8.1 patch was too little, too late. Win9: Hopefully a goodie - but I think it will have to be to get over the Win8 debacle, in the same way the Win7 had to be with vista.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Windows 8 brings in System on a chip so whenever I install on a new machine there is not any drivers to be installed except for your favourite video driver.
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Windows 8 brings in System on a chip so whenever I install on a new machine there is not any drivers to be installed except for your favourite video driver.
How many times do you think I install an OS on my machine? Once, if I'm lucky. So it doesn't matter to me how much easier Weight makes it to copy it from one machine to another, because I won't be doing it. It doesn't matter how much "technically better" it may be if all it does in the real world is cause me more grief, more support calls from friends because "it doesn't work", or it's hard to install - which is true for a normal user. XP, Win7 - they expanded and improved the user experience. Weight trashed it.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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So, still something that requires me to divert my attention away from whatever I'm doing... Why does Microsoft suddenly hate keyboards? (Keyboard + Muscle Memory) > (Mouse + Hunting for crap on a charms bar)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
How many times do you think I install an OS on my machine? Once, if I'm lucky. So it doesn't matter to me how much easier Weight makes it to copy it from one machine to another, because I won't be doing it. It doesn't matter how much "technically better" it may be if all it does in the real world is cause me more grief, more support calls from friends because "it doesn't work", or it's hard to install - which is true for a normal user. XP, Win7 - they expanded and improved the user experience. Weight trashed it.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
OK, ok; what about this. Multi monitor support; desktop no touch. Windows 7; Once a full screen game is playing on one screen nothing can happen on the other. (Many situations like this) Windows 8; With a full screen metro game (such as halo) on one screen any thing can happen on the other screen while maintaining focus to both. Civilization 5 on one screen and Hyper for Youtube on the other is a great way to waste an hour. Using a desktop app in Windows 8 breaks this ability and is why the desktop sucks. With a touch screen you can touch and control both apps at once, and with Kinect 2 - you can turn 50 inch screens into touch capabilities.
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You like Win8 - we get that. The rest of the world (pretty much) thinks it's a huge waste of HDD space and is waiting patiently for it to die a quiet death and be buried in an unmarked electronic grave, unmourned.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
To be fair, I like Windows 8, I just think Metro is a waste of space - installed a start menu replacement and happily ignored it ever since. It does perform better on the same hardware, but I guess the basic functionality of an O/S isn't so important nowadays ;-) I do hope they see the light a bit on Win9 though, else I may have to consider moving my skills to another platform - while I don't mind Win8, there's not much point getting skilled on a platform that is so unpopular. I'm hoping for: * Proper support for XAML-like stuff in native desktop app's. * Removal, or at least demphasis of the New UI. ... and that's about it.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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To be fair, I like Windows 8, I just think Metro is a waste of space - installed a start menu replacement and happily ignored it ever since. It does perform better on the same hardware, but I guess the basic functionality of an O/S isn't so important nowadays ;-) I do hope they see the light a bit on Win9 though, else I may have to consider moving my skills to another platform - while I don't mind Win8, there's not much point getting skilled on a platform that is so unpopular. I'm hoping for: * Proper support for XAML-like stuff in native desktop app's. * Removal, or at least demphasis of the New UI. ... and that's about it.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
I'm sure that if I sat down and invested a lot of time and effort (and swearing, let's not forget the swearing - there was enough of that the first time I had to work out how to shut it down...) it would be a good OS. But...it was too much of a "Metro is where you are going, like it or not" approach; too phone centric. Forcing a new UI on people isn't the best way to keep customer loyalty. Particularly when there is no obvious benefit, just a lot of frustration for "normal" users. Yes, you could quickly find apps to change it back to something like what you were used to - but then why "upgrade" at all? Normal users don't care about the things our resident MS Fanboy does: they want to open Excel, open Chrome, open email, and get on with their work. Not scream at the screen because you can't find anything or work out how to shut it down! :laugh: Hopefully, MS will learn from this - they did with XP / Vista / Win7 - but I suspect they will do it again later. :sigh:
You looking for sympathy? You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric (Page 1788, if it helps)
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I'm sure that if I sat down and invested a lot of time and effort (and swearing, let's not forget the swearing - there was enough of that the first time I had to work out how to shut it down...) it would be a good OS. But...it was too much of a "Metro is where you are going, like it or not" approach; too phone centric. Forcing a new UI on people isn't the best way to keep customer loyalty. Particularly when there is no obvious benefit, just a lot of frustration for "normal" users. Yes, you could quickly find apps to change it back to something like what you were used to - but then why "upgrade" at all? Normal users don't care about the things our resident MS Fanboy does: they want to open Excel, open Chrome, open email, and get on with their work. Not scream at the screen because you can't find anything or work out how to shut it down! :laugh: Hopefully, MS will learn from this - they did with XP / Vista / Win7 - but I suspect they will do it again later. :sigh:
You looking for sympathy? You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric (Page 1788, if it helps)
I agree absolutely - the new UI has been forced down peoples necks. I like the Metro UI on a phone. I'm pretty sure it would be OK on a tablet, but on a desktop (let alone a server) its bat-shit insane. I use my PC a lot for musical endeavours, and me and my son use it for gaming - the improved memory usage and disk performance pay for itself in these areas. For many people, I can see the upgrade doesn't make so much sense. My personal take is that it's a better O/S in spite of the GUI "improvements", not because of them.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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The UI needs hard core work, and it not the reason why 8 is amazing. A lot of people will get to see the potential of the operating system is by using Xbox One, which uses Windows RT as the core.
So the UI needs hard core work, and is not the reason 8 is amazing, but people will see the potential from XBox One because of the new UI. That makes no sense at all.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying
That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying FTFY
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying FTFY
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
The only time it is annoying is when I want it to show in the portion of the screen absent of a metro app instead of taking total control of the screen.
