An Informative Poll - USA

Imran Farooqui

Rohit Sinha wrote: I am the one who wants to bring friendship and a cordial relationship between the two countries May be you don't know (because you don't watch Pakistan channels) but many songs of your recent films are cheated from Pakistan. (3 in Kabhi khushi kabhi gham were based on the same tone). We also cheat yours (and make them even worse, atleast you people improve ours :-D). Had we worked together in field of Arts and culture how successful we would have been. Just imagine a cricket team in which there is Sachin and Akram are together. AAh its just a dream. What you say ?? Rohit Sinha wrote: As you can see if you read the article, he was merely saying that if self determination means a separate nation on the grounds of ethnic and cultural diversity, then there are other nations who have to be broken down in parts. Pakistan was itself formed on religious grounds as stated in Government of India act June 1947, that muslim "majority" areas of north west and north east are to be made independent states. "ALL" provinces where muslims are in majority voted for Pakistan in 99% votes. But not Kashmir though in principle it is majority of muslim area in north west. Dude, India is a rising economy, and as a big market, a natural ally of the West. West also wants India to stand as a wall in front of China, and West also knows that this "Wall" can potentially become a "hill" against their own interests. So they also created a "wall" in front of India name you know well. (Not my words.. these are the words of the president of BJP visited Islamabad perhaps last month) Rohit Sinha wrote: Pakistan was the one who started the dispute, remember? The Kashmiris/Indians didn't. No, India had involved UN in the matter plus the statements of Mr.Nehru related to Kashmir complicated the situation. Rohit Sinha wrote: the people there have already voted and brought an Indian party to run the government, As such, UN resolution also not said that AJK is part of India and Pakistan occupied it and as such they can also selected their own government. No state election can be a substitute of plabescite. Mr .LK Advani is not a well wisher of Pakistan. He was a big criminal before 1947 even the British Police station at Hyderabad (Pak) filed a case against him related to murders. The case files are still present there. ??? If me, hmm no, we promised at Simla that we solve the iss

Rohit Sinha

Imran Farooqui wrote: Had we worked together in field of Arts and culture how successful we would have been. Just imagine a cricket team in which there is Sachin and Akram are together. AAh its just a dream. What you say ?? My thoughts, exactly. :-D I have often dreamed of the ideal team, where the players of both the countries come together and form the worlds best team. And we (India Pakistan combined) have got the best minds on the planet IMO, very good music and culture, food ( :-D ), and everything else. Only if all this could come together. :rose: Boy, what greatness we could have achieved, what fun we could have had. But instead we are engaged in religious turmoils and land disputes. :( Imran Farooqui wrote: No, India had involved UN in the matter plus the statements of Mr.Nehru related to Kashmir complicated the situation. Yes, you are right. Leave it to the politicians to mess up every situation. They didn't know how to handle the situation then, and they don't know how to handle it now. Imran Farooqui wrote: Mr .LK Advani is not a well wisher of Pakistan. He was a big criminal before 1947 even the British Police station at Hyderabad (Pak) filed a case against him related to murders. The case files are still present there. What he was or is as a person does not and should not have any bearing on this issue. And maybe, just maybe, because I don't know enough about this matter, the "murders" were of the freedom fight type, like those of Bhagat Singh and all. Imran Farooqui wrote: If you say that UN resolution is old and not to be implemented then i say that Simla agreement is old and lets break it. :) I'm not saying we should break the UN resolution or the Simla agreement. See, if we stick to the Simla agreement, which came after the UN resolution, we can forget about the UN resolution. That is why I said it's old and outdated. Because the two countries agreed to solve it bilaterally, and keep the UN and everyone else out of it. But so far neither of the two countries has shown any positive interest in this direction. Both are adamant on their stand. Pakistan on the one hand keeps saying the issue should be solved peacefully, which is a very good thing, but then it also supports terrorism in India actively. India in its turn refuses to talk to Pakistan until this terrorism thing is solved. This attitude is not going to take any of us anywhere. Pakistan has to stop ter

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: Unfortunately, when you are dealing with terrorism it seems awfully difficult to deal with it successfully without getting your hand dirty Doing this is repeating the same mistake French Army did in Algeria, radicalizing a conflict and changing terrorists in martyrs.

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KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: Favor, no doubt at all. So, you're favorizing the use of the Force over the Law and the Right, and rejecting the Human Rights. What difference have you left with a Fascist ? Mike Gaskey wrote: That is a silly question, but you knew that Sorry, I don't. I don't think asking question about the use of torture is innocent, more a try to influence the US policy by pretending US citizens agree with such means. Mike Gaskey wrote: Now you'll have to explain that one. Just how does a news reporting organization become "evil" - or is it because they allow news that hasn't been filtered through a leftist lens Nope, this organization is evil not because of the ideas it's promoting, but because of the means it use. Read the Sun and the New York Post, and see how a disgusting campaign may be launched, using hatred, xenophobiac arguments and racist clichés to make its point. Murdoch's empire is dropping tons of shit on its opponents, using the same tactics used by totalitarian regims through the world. it has no honor and can't be respected.

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Doug Goulden

I don't know if you have been reading the papers lately, but Al Quada is already a radical group. If we were dicussing dealing with rational people I would agree with you, but in this case, these people have already made the decision how they feel about us, they hate our guts and want to kill us. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: I don't know if you have been reading the papers lately <sarcasm>No, I live in a cave without any contact with the rest of the world since 1982 </sarcasm> ;P Doug Goulden wrote: If we were dicussing dealing with rational people I would agree with you, but in this case, these people have already made the decision how they feel about us, they hate our guts and want to kill us. If you use the same means you loose also all moral authority to fight them back, and lower yourself at the same level, loosing also all the values you may believe and defend as the Right and the Law.

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: If you use the same means you loose also all moral authority to fight them back, and lower yourself at the same level, loosing also all the values you may believe and defend as the Right and the Law The rule of law..... you have to get someone to agree to live by those rules before you can use them as a tool. Al Quada and groups like them could care less about rules, laws, and resolutions. Until they are made to see that the only result they will get is a swift and effective response, they won't consider any other option. KaЯl wrote: No, I live in a cave without any contact with the rest of the world since 1982 Is that why French people use so much perfume?:omg: Sorry had to do it..... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: you have to get someone to agree to live by those rules before you can use them as a tool That's why there are (still) international organizations. If we abandon what we believe in, the terrorists win. Doug Goulden wrote: Until they are made to see that the only result they will get is a swift and effective response, they won't consider any other option. You are applying your logic to the terrorists, believing they will act following it. But IMHO they don't use the same logic we do, if they even use one. Doug Goulden wrote: Is that why French people use so much perfume? <joking> I never use perfume, that attracts sissys ;P </joking>

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: You are applying your logic to the terrorists, believing they will act following it. But IMHO they don't use the same logic we do, if they even use one. I'm applying my logic thinking that the terrorists should see 2 options. Either act within normal standards of law and behavior, or be attacked and destroyed. If they can be made to see that there is an attractive solution and the other solution will be applied, I think it removes a lot of the doubt from their minds what to do. I would suspect that a lot of the people involved in these organizations lack the strength of their convictions. The problem either with this or with Iraq is there has to be a credible threat to how these type of people what is going to happen. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

IMHO, the word "terrorist" is relative and ambiguous. Insurgents would have been called terrorists if the word was already invented. The guys who committed 9/11 are not terrorists: they are mass murderers. Bombing a wedding banquet is not a political act, it's a crime (as bury people with bulldozers, BTW). We shouldn't consider them as some depraved soldiers, but as criminals. So, why should we treat them differently than our criminals? Are our moral, democratic, republican stances so weak we need to corrupt our Justice, create special rules for them and become criminals ourselves, by breaking the laws we made?

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: as bury people with bulldozers, BTW Are you talking about the 22 yold American in Israel? Thats a crime.... KaЯl wrote: We shouldn't consider them as some depraved soldiers, but as criminals. So, why should we treat them differently than our criminals Because, at least in the States a policeman can use deadly force to stop a criminal from harming someone. Also I don't suscribe to the idea that someone who is not a citizen deserves the same rights as a citizen. A foreign national who eenters any country for the purpose of harming tht nation should be treated as an enemy. They don't deserve the same priveliges that a citizen would have. BTW someone traveling inside a foreign country who violate that nations laws (but not with the intent of harming the nation) should be arrested and tried or expelled as that nation sees fit. Not to many years ago there was a teenage American arrested in Singapore who was going to be caned, a practice that is although harsh, legal in that country. He didn't deserve any special consideration and either does someone who enters a country with the intent of doing harm. A nation has the right to defend itself, and the groups we are dealing with have pledged themelves to destroy us. Thats not even something Jeffrey Dahlmer or Richard Speck did. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: Also I don't suscribe to the idea that someone who is not a citizen deserves the same rights as a citizen Don't you believe the human rights are universal and inalienable :eek: ? Doug Goulden wrote: Thats not even something Jeffrey Dahlmer or Richard Speck did. :confused: Sure, I could search on google, but I'm sure you're able to do a better job explaining that to me directly :)

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: Don't you believe the human rights are universal and inalienable Yes, human rights are, unfortunately the US also tends to want to give social security benefits, medicaid, and the same legal rights to all. I personnaly subscribe to the idea of kick out the people who cause problems. Take their visa away and do not let them return. KaЯl wrote: Jeffrey Dahlmer Mass murdered killed and ate something like 25 - 30 young men. Was arrested in Millwaukee Wisconsin in I believe the 80's. Died in prison when another inmate impaled him with a broomstick. KaЯl wrote: Richard Speck Mass murderer who killed several nurses in the Chicago, Ill area. Didn't eat hi victims, but caused a scandal when was filmed while in prison while doing cocaine and bragging about how much sex he was having. Died of a heart attack in prison, turn out nobody was willing to do CPR to save him according to a guard I knew at the prison there. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: unfortunately the US also tends to want to give social security benefits, medicaid, and the same legal rights to all. We do so and it's IMO logical: our current constitution begins with the Declaration of Rights of Man and Citizen. First article: "Men are born and remain free and equal in rights"

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: We do so and it's IMO logical: our current constitution begins with the Declaration of Rights of Man and Citizen. First article: "Men are born and remain free and equal in rights" I guess I'm to much the conservative here. I resent the idea of people entering my country illegally and then being offered the priveleges that are associated with citizenship. I do believe every one has the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. BTW I don't have a problem with legal immigration, thats another topic. This country though is frequently "visited" by people wanting to escape tyranny. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: This country though is frequently "visited" by people wanting to escape tyranny. Our countries share that, made by aggregation of people and cultures.

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Doug Goulden

Have you been listening to the news? Fox news just reported from the Pentagon that the Pentagon has info that Iraqi troops have been armed with chemical artillery shells. BTW British House of Commons just really let the French have it. Blame you guy for the inability to pressure Iraq into cooperation. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

I didn't hear this one yet, but as I said before a war is greatly increasing the risk of use of WMD. SH knows he's dead, and many know they will follow him, so, what should they fear now? Doug Goulden wrote: BTW British House of Commons just really let the French have it Logical, they have to find a scape-goat for their public opinion, and blaming the French is always popular in UK. AFAIK, British opinion is against a war without UN authorization. If the government succeeds to convince it was impossible whatever (for example, by manipulating chirac's speech, and forgetting the use of veto by Russia), it hopes the public will follow him. Blair is brave. wrong, but brave. Zou, I connect myself on BBC world, the parliament debate is live.

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Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: I didn't hear this one yet, but as I said before a war is greatly increasing the risk of use of WMD. SH knows he's dead, and many know they will follow him, so, what should they fear now I thought the French were saying that Saddam was disarming? No WMD?;P Gonna get real messy. I jut hope for civilians sake that SH doesn't try to attack Israel with gas. They already promised to turn Baghdad into a smoking hole in the ground:(( The US troop are at least trained and we'll get him I don;t wanna see any attacks on civilians. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: I thought the French were saying that Saddam was disarming? No WMD? If I reminds me well my english lessons, "he's disarming" implies he hasn't desarmed yet ;P Doug Goulden wrote: SH doesn't try to attack Israel with gas I don't think Iraq has the capacity to export such a threat, I hope not being wrong. Israel would nuke Bagdad, and start a third world war :| Doug Goulden wrote: I don;t wanna see any attacks on civilians. War is Hell. Once started, there's no place for pity left.

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