A discussion On What Constitutes Abuse And What Should Be Done About It
-
Ah - the "12 people voted for me and that makes a majority" argument again. Just to summarise for those who are still reading: 1. Most people on the site don't care. The vast, huge, 99.9999% don't even know about Matt. Sorry. 2. Of those who expressed support, the majority expressed support for freedom of expression. 3. Of those who expressed an opinion I did not see a single voice saying "you should be able to post whatever you like in whatever forum you like regardless of the forum topic or rules".
Chris Maunder wrote:
1. Most people on the site don't care. The vast, huge, 99.9999% don't even know about Matt. Sorry.
Why do you even have to say that? Do you really think I am looking for attention? You are miles out. Really. I am surprised.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Of those who expressed support, the majority expressed support for freedom of expression.
Which is what I said.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Of those who expressed an opinion I did not see a single voice saying "you should be able to post whatever you like in whatever forum you like regardless of the forum topic or rules".
I never claimed they did. What I did say, as many others did, is that a sig is not a post and thus shouldn't be subjected to the same rules. But anyway, I am bored with this. I have changed my sig so when you get it working again no one need have their tiny little world disturbed by a few words.
-
Chris Maunder wrote:
1. Most people on the site don't care. The vast, huge, 99.9999% don't even know about Matt. Sorry.
Why do you even have to say that? Do you really think I am looking for attention? You are miles out. Really. I am surprised.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Of those who expressed support, the majority expressed support for freedom of expression.
Which is what I said.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Of those who expressed an opinion I did not see a single voice saying "you should be able to post whatever you like in whatever forum you like regardless of the forum topic or rules".
I never claimed they did. What I did say, as many others did, is that a sig is not a post and thus shouldn't be subjected to the same rules. But anyway, I am bored with this. I have changed my sig so when you get it working again no one need have their tiny little world disturbed by a few words.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Which is what I said
You said "it is clear the community want the sig to stay Chris" and "The community clearly wants freedom of speech Chris, and my sig to be allowed" Freedom of speech, yes. And everyone has that. Posting messages that include politics and religion in the lounge? (and yes, a sig is part of a message). Show me the majority support for that. Please stick to the discussion (though I know you won't) and have another crack at this simple question: Do you feel you should respect the community and the site, and myself personally, and keep discussions in the appropriate (yet still very public) places we've asked you to?
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Which is what I said
You said "it is clear the community want the sig to stay Chris" and "The community clearly wants freedom of speech Chris, and my sig to be allowed" Freedom of speech, yes. And everyone has that. Posting messages that include politics and religion in the lounge? (and yes, a sig is part of a message). Show me the majority support for that. Please stick to the discussion (though I know you won't) and have another crack at this simple question: Do you feel you should respect the community and the site, and myself personally, and keep discussions in the appropriate (yet still very public) places we've asked you to?
Chris Maunder wrote:
Posting messages that include politics and religion in the lounge? (and yes, a sig is part of a message). Show me the majority support for that
I didn't claim that. I merely stated what others have said, the posts in the lounge about politics go un noticed, it is only when it contains a sensitive subject that some people start getting upset, as has been stated by others here.
Chris Maunder wrote:
keep discussions in the appropriate
As I have always done. Show me where I have discussed Israel in the lounge? Or any politics for that matter.
-
Chris Maunder wrote:
Posting messages that include politics and religion in the lounge? (and yes, a sig is part of a message). Show me the majority support for that
I didn't claim that. I merely stated what others have said, the posts in the lounge about politics go un noticed, it is only when it contains a sensitive subject that some people start getting upset, as has been stated by others here.
Chris Maunder wrote:
keep discussions in the appropriate
As I have always done. Show me where I have discussed Israel in the lounge? Or any politics for that matter.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Or any politics for that matter
So this whole thing boils down to you taking the view that a signature is not part of a message or discussion. That what you include in your sig is essentially invisible, inviolate and not subject to posting guidelines. Was not me, guv'nor, 'twas my sig, the little rascal. Never know what he'll get up too next!
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Or any politics for that matter
So this whole thing boils down to you taking the view that a signature is not part of a message or discussion. That what you include in your sig is essentially invisible, inviolate and not subject to posting guidelines. Was not me, guv'nor, 'twas my sig, the little rascal. Never know what he'll get up too next!
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think, including you since you think PhilLenoirs sig is OK, yet you have asked Martin (the Australian I think he is) to moderate his language in the lounge. Clearly its a case of double standards aimed at people who criticise criticise Israel, as this CP member also attests: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4986823/Re-Can-someone-upvote-this.aspx[^]
-
Oh come on, Genesis, all that other pretentious garbage? Punk was pure, fresh, honest! Thank god it came along when it did, it blew all the old crap away overnight!
Quote:
pretentious garbage
Oh, you mean something with more than 3 simple triad chords? The kind of thing a 10 year old could play? Gotcha, I'm right with you man, like Beethoven was only in it for the money and Bach was just a religious nut .. and Mozart: "A Little Night Music", "A Musical Joke" - what's up with that? And jazz, jazz, just a load of drugged up ponces, right? Hey who needs 3 chords, two power chords is enough for anyone? < / SatiricalRant> Now, as stated previously, I have some Punk in my collection, I also have quite a bit of Buddy Holly (also fresh and musically naïve). I was never a fan of Genesis, especially under Phil Collins' leadership. To say that Punk killed Progressive Rock is so wide of the mark. Why?: 1) It's not dead, 2) It's actually very difficult to define: Is Pink Floyd Progressive Rock, how about Led Zeppelin? (answer: it depends on your definition and who you ask) 3) Progressive Rock was not a fashion and, for the most part, was not aimed at being popular. How many top ten hits could be labelled prog rock? How many groups could really be called Progressive Rocks bands? Punk was not only a fashion, although it was fashionable and enjoyed (suffered from) being trendy. There were lots of hits and lots of bands. Popularity has never been a good measure of quality and there were plenty of low quality (and pretentious) punks. Matt, do you even know what a 2nd or a 4th chord is? How about a 9th (a lot of guitarists don't even really know and get it mixed up with a 2nd!). How about differences between a major key and it's relative minor? Can you answer "What is Dorian Mode" or "When is a good time to use an augmented chord?" If you can, then you know more about music than most and your comment was just trolling! :)
-
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think, including you since you think PhilLenoirs sig is OK, yet you have asked Martin (the Australian I think he is) to moderate his language in the lounge. Clearly its a case of double standards aimed at people who criticise criticise Israel, as this CP member also attests: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4986823/Re-Can-someone-upvote-this.aspx[^]
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think
It's certainly taken a long time to get here. So: Your sig is part of your signature. Include religion or politics in your sig and I consider it as including the content in your message. At that point I'll judge whether your trying to incite a conversation on religion or politics in a given forum and will take the appropriate action. This isn't up for debate. This is how I will run my forum. a) My discussion on language included a bunch of details you've conveniently elided. Swear words are obfuscated, most public newspapers are fine with posting obfuscated swear words, so from the point of view of propriety, I have no problem. b) Swear words are words. They aren't discussions on religion and politics that take over the Lounge and make it a place where the majority of developers no longer want to visit due to it being hijacked by those wanting to use it as a soapbox. That is the reason for the ban on religion and politics in the lounge. Two very different things.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think
It's certainly taken a long time to get here. So: Your sig is part of your signature. Include religion or politics in your sig and I consider it as including the content in your message. At that point I'll judge whether your trying to incite a conversation on religion or politics in a given forum and will take the appropriate action. This isn't up for debate. This is how I will run my forum. a) My discussion on language included a bunch of details you've conveniently elided. Swear words are obfuscated, most public newspapers are fine with posting obfuscated swear words, so from the point of view of propriety, I have no problem. b) Swear words are words. They aren't discussions on religion and politics that take over the Lounge and make it a place where the majority of developers no longer want to visit due to it being hijacked by those wanting to use it as a soapbox. That is the reason for the ban on religion and politics in the lounge. Two very different things.
And I have never discussed politics in the lounge, so you should be happy. :)
-
Quote:
pretentious garbage
Oh, you mean something with more than 3 simple triad chords? The kind of thing a 10 year old could play? Gotcha, I'm right with you man, like Beethoven was only in it for the money and Bach was just a religious nut .. and Mozart: "A Little Night Music", "A Musical Joke" - what's up with that? And jazz, jazz, just a load of drugged up ponces, right? Hey who needs 3 chords, two power chords is enough for anyone? < / SatiricalRant> Now, as stated previously, I have some Punk in my collection, I also have quite a bit of Buddy Holly (also fresh and musically naïve). I was never a fan of Genesis, especially under Phil Collins' leadership. To say that Punk killed Progressive Rock is so wide of the mark. Why?: 1) It's not dead, 2) It's actually very difficult to define: Is Pink Floyd Progressive Rock, how about Led Zeppelin? (answer: it depends on your definition and who you ask) 3) Progressive Rock was not a fashion and, for the most part, was not aimed at being popular. How many top ten hits could be labelled prog rock? How many groups could really be called Progressive Rocks bands? Punk was not only a fashion, although it was fashionable and enjoyed (suffered from) being trendy. There were lots of hits and lots of bands. Popularity has never been a good measure of quality and there were plenty of low quality (and pretentious) punks. Matt, do you even know what a 2nd or a 4th chord is? How about a 9th (a lot of guitarists don't even really know and get it mixed up with a 2nd!). How about differences between a major key and it's relative minor? Can you answer "What is Dorian Mode" or "When is a good time to use an augmented chord?" If you can, then you know more about music than most and your comment was just trolling! :)
Zeppelin were finished before punk came along. I am talking about all that late 70s prog rock crap like emerson lake and palmer. God it was pretentious drivel. All I need to know about guitar is how to play Whole lot of Rosie b ACDC, or stairway to heaven. :) (Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists! :) )
-
That's not the backroom.
True, but it's close.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Zeppelin were finished before punk came along. I am talking about all that late 70s prog rock crap like emerson lake and palmer. God it was pretentious drivel. All I need to know about guitar is how to play Whole lot of Rosie b ACDC, or stairway to heaven. :) (Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists! :) )
Certainly not by a punk band! ;p
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
-
But the community is clearly in favour of allowing my sig if you look at the responses in this thread. Anyway, I have changed it, since it was getting a bit old anyway (yes, I have had that sig for a long time).
I remember seeing the sig weeks ago, and thinking "beh" (which is Italian for "meh"). It obviously pissed off the people you wanted to piss off, but, unfortunately, their method of responding was unacceptable.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
I agree. Look at this chap: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4986659/Re-A-discussion-On-What-Constitutes-Abuse-And-What.aspx[^] See how he claims he has the right to express himself yet has decided others don't? With people like him around how can you expect fair play?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
See how he claims he has the right to express himself yet has decided others don't?
Everybody feels that way; it's part of the human condition. Grown-ups are aware of it and can deal with it, though. Don't you think that right now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Don't push people into making decisions that everyone will regret.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Chris Maunder wrote:
The point is: we have rules we ask our members to abide by
And as others have pointed out many political posts go by unnoticed in the lounge and it is more the content of my sig that raised objection.
Chris Maunder wrote:
and you think you're above those rules
No I don't.
Chris Maunder wrote:
You are showing absolutely no desire to get this sorted out
I have already changed my sig even though the 'community' in the main didn't object to.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's not about censorship. It's not about politics
It is about both actually. as others have suggested.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's about you wanting to be right
I dont have to want to be right Chris, because I know I am right. :)
I repeat: Don't you think that now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Your nose won't be happy, no matter how good a reason you think you have for cutting it off.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Certainly not by a punk band! ;p
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
Or even a good old British Rock band!
-
I repeat: Don't you think that now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Your nose won't be happy, no matter how good a reason you think you have for cutting it off.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Sorry, what was that you were saying? :)
-
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Richard Deeming wrote:
On this site, your word is law.
And that is exactly the way to do it. Setting up processes/rules/laws to govern what may and may not be done introduces a never-ending stream of problems, because what is written can be intentionally misread and misrepresented -- and there are always plenty of people who just love misreading and misrepresenting stuff, to give themselves imaginary rights to treat others badly.
And there you go. Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse. The question we need to ask appears to be: Does CP need people who behave like that?
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse
Yeah, the same person responsible for mis-flagging a ton of messages. I'm adding code specifically for his enjoyment.
cheers Chris Maunder
-
Sorry, what was that you were saying? :)
Just a link to another anti-Israel hate site. It is only the Jews - so who cares indeed.
Nick Polyak
-
True, but it's close.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinDamn, that hurts.
Gary Kirkham A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Or any politics for that matter
So this whole thing boils down to you taking the view that a signature is not part of a message or discussion. That what you include in your sig is essentially invisible, inviolate and not subject to posting guidelines. Was not me, guv'nor, 'twas my sig, the little rascal. Never know what he'll get up too next!
Chris Maunder wrote:
Was not me, guv'nor
LMAO! :laugh:
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein