The statue of Liberty

KaRl

"With us or against us", remember?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Marc Clifton

If you read "The Measure Of All Things", you'll note that the French have always been beligerent. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

Jason Henderson

No, but I don't consider them overly friendly.

Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

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Doug Goulden

Knock it off trouble maker or we'll melt it down and drop it on yah 500 pounds at a time.;);P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

Le centriste

JoeSox wrote: BTW, good thing she has a gown on, to hide her hairy french armpits!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: we'll melt it down and drop it on yah 500 pounds at a time You should, the US turning more and more fascist deserve less and less to own such a symbol.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: You should, the US turning more and more fascist deserve less and less to own such a symbol. I think you are losing your sense of humor;P If we are so fascist why are the Iraqi people in Basrah rising up against the B'ath Party to get rid of the good guys? I think the US and UK are the ones who will be standing on the high ground here.... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: If we are so fascist why are the Iraqi people in Basrah rising up against the B'ath Party to get rid of the good guys Not a proof of democracy. The Wehrmacht was covered with flowers by Austrians when they invade Austria in 1938. Doug Goulden wrote: I think the US and UK are the ones who will be standing on the high ground here What about the Aussies? ;P

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: Not a proof of democracy. The Wehrmacht was covered with flowers by Austrians when they invade Austria in 1938 Hmmmmmm, leave it to the French to call us Nazis. I really honestly don't understand why you think that the US wants to take over the world. Hell, even the people who support this war want our guys to just come home. The US has never been big on the idea of expansion, I don't get it. I want and every on else I know want, to live my life and be left alone. I hate the idea that people suffer, whether they are people in my country or not. But I figured out on 9/11 that there is a lot of the world who hates the US just because we are the US. Thats sad. The Middle East hates everybody who is not like them, Europe (excluding the Brits) think they have this special view on the world because they are European. To be honest, all I want outta life is to take care of my wife, travel and go fishing, with a little woodworking thrown in. And somehow people all over the world think that the US wants to take over. What the Hell do we get out of it? Sorry for the tirade, but I'm sick and tired of the US is being looked down on for standing up (FINALLY) and doing the right thing. Yeah its part self interest, but we'll pay the cost, and a high one at that, and try to minimize civilian casualties. Yeah don't forget the Aussies or the Poles Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

No, US can't be considered to Nazis, of course. But fascism is quiet different from nazism, you already know that. Doug Goulden wrote: Hell, even the people who support this war want our guys to just come home Didn't they want first to send them there :omg: ? It was an acceptance some of them wouldn't go back. Doug Goulden wrote: Sorry for the tirade, but I'm sick and tired of the US is being looked down on for standing up It's sadly just a beginning IMO, this war is for the moment a mediatic disaster

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

I don't think you can call us facists either, what we are doing is what we feel as necessary, we aren't trying to just impose our will for the sake of doing it. KaЯl wrote: Didn't they want first to send them there ? It was an acceptance some of them wouldn't go back. You misunderstand me, hell we didn't want to have to do this, it was a necessary evil at best. I think we need to do it, but I would rather we didn't have to. I do want us to see this through now that we are doing it. I think that your link shows that the people in SPain don't really know Americans. That or you don't know the people I know. I'm sort of getting to the point anymore where I'm glad that we have a wide ocean between us and most of the rest of the world, seems like people are very quick to gripe about the US because we are the big kid on the block. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: I don't think you can call us facists either, No, no yet. But US are getting closer. Doug Goulden wrote: I think that your link shows that the people in SPain don't really know Americans Probably true, as you don't probably really know Europeans. This links shows to you the consequences of the pre-war mediatic failure in the World opinion, Spain is far from being an exception. One year ago the US were cherish, they're now considered as the evil aggressors, risking the World stability without the World consent. Bush's spin doctors should be burned at stake, at least.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: No, no yet. But US are getting closer I think you read to much liberal media. If you came to the States where I live you would see that the people here aren't even close to fascists. For that matter most of us don't even like the government. I love my country I distrust my government. But I have lived all over the States and I can tell you that you would be suprised how kind and compassionate Americans can be. We aren't all large city, in a hurry, rude, etc. like NY and Chicago. KaЯl wrote: Probably true, as you don't probably really know Europeans. This links shows to you the consequences of the pre-war mediatic failure in the World opinion, Spain is far from being an exception. One year ago the US were cherish, they're now considered as the evil aggressors, risking the World stability without the World consent. Bush's spin doctors should be burned at stake, at least You may be right, but to be honest, what does it matter what someone in Spain or France thinks? I don't mean to be rude, but the reality is that every country on the face of the Earth acts in its own self interests, it just seems the US is criticized for doing it. I don't hear people in an uproar about the Russians selling ilitary technology to Iraq, and you don't seem very bothered by Iraq's oil deals with France. So if the US acts out of its own self interests, assuming that it takes what it deems a moral approach, what is wrong with that? By moral approach I mean , either in self defense, or where the gain for the other parties is greater than the risk. In the case of Iraq you could say we are acting in our self defense, and that the people who are in Iraq will be better off after SH is removed. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: If you came to the States where I live you would see that the people here aren't even close to fascists The people probably not, but the government is something else. However, I believe your system is strong enough to avoid a dictatorship. And, for the moment, it could perhaps not be very safe for a French to travel to the US. Doug Goulden wrote: what does it matter what someone in Spain or France thinks Bingo. Doug Goulden wrote: where the gain for the other parties is greater than the risk This is a gamble, not a certitude, thousands of things could go wrong. It could get worse for everybody on this planet because of this war. But I don't worry, I already know French would be blamed for that too.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: And, for the moment, it could perhaps not be very safe for a French to travel to the US. Nah our bark is worse than our bite, you just have to be in the MidWest Hey something for you to look at let me know what you think. Not a trick question.;) Found this while I was Googling http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/05/bowden.htm Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Surprinsingly, they didn't mention the connection between SH and the CIA in the 60's, after the installation of the Baath party at the head of the State by the same agency :) Everybody knows SH is a bloody bastard, and deserves the destiny he will face in few weeks, but is it really the point?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

It seems that the author is saying that the US and UK will repeat the attrocities that he saw when he was a child. That and he seems afraid of the Kurds. I disagree that the US or UK are there to occupy Iraq. However, I agree that the concern over the Kurds, they and the Kurds in Turkey are going to be a big issue. However, from the reading I've done and some of the "talking heads" I've seen, the Kurds have managed since the '91 Gulf War to create a self autonomous state. Question is going to be will Iraq be able to avoid the same fragmentation that Yugoslavia experienced. Sadaam has managed to keep a lot of different factions fom fighting, when he is gone that will change. Its going to be interesting to see what happens and how we can work to stabilize the region. Hopefully, this will all work out OK. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: Its going to be interesting to see what happens and how we can work to stabilize the region That's IMO a problem. It will take years, and Iraqi won't support such an occupation, according to the article. Doug Goulden wrote: Hopefully, this will all work out OK. If you loose your gamble, who wins?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: and Iraqi won't support such an occupation Why do you insist that Iraq is going to be occupied? I see the US and UK being there in a big way for maybe 3 - 6 months after the war, to a lesser extent for 1 to 2 years, with the UN probably involved after that. Afghanistan is on its way to independence even know, don't even try to tell me the people there are worse off than they were under the Taliban..... KaЯl wrote: If you loose your gamble, who wins The US has to be committed to making this work, and to making real changes to its foreign policy. IMHO I think that we are ready to do that, I just hope that other nations are willing to help instead of criticize. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: ? I see the US and UK being there in a big way for maybe 3 - 6 months after the war, to a lesser extent for 1 to 2 years, with the UN probably involved after that NATO troops are still in Bosnia, remember? A military presence will be needed for a while. Doug Goulden wrote: don't even try to tell me the people there are worse off than they were under the Taliban No, but they aren't in a better shape than before the soviet invasion, with warlords controling the country

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop