Hearts and Minds

jan larsen

Jason Henderson wrote: freedom of religion (don't know how well this will go over but its necessary), 97 percent Iraqis are muslems, but there is actually freedom of religion. Besides having an obvious maniac dictator, there is not that big a difference between the states in the area, none of them are democracies. Of the few differences though, is the freedom of the women. As opposed to their Saudi sisters, the Iraqi women are allowed eg. to get a drivers license, and get an education by choice. I guess the only thing they need right now is the "no Hussein's in power", and of course, not having to avoid being hit by a bomb. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus

Richard Stringer

To quote the late LBJ: "Get them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow" Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles

Chris Losinger

jan larsen wrote: none of them are democracies just FYI: Qatar, Israel and Turkey are all democracies. -c

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Lost User

Qatar has how many natives - 10? Almost all the population is immigrant. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Lost User

Hearts and minds never follow use of force. They may give the impression that it follows for purposes of survival, but given an opportunity, they would return the favour. To get a proof, just imagine you getting grabbed by the balls by someone much powerful than you - and see whether your heart and mind follows him....and I can guarantee you that you will get him by the balls, when he is weak. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Lost User

Also Qatar is not a democracy, it is a monarchy. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/middle\_east/qatar/ My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Chris Losinger

Thomas George wrote: Also Qatar is not a democracy, it is a monarchy. ok. i think it's fair to say that it's a monarchy trying very hard to become a democracy: citizens, including women, can vote, there is an elected governing body and there is work towards a 'permanent' constitution. whether the rest of the arab world allows it to become a democracy by western standards remains to be seen, but it has a good start. yes, it's small. but i don't think that population matters when discussing the type of goverment. -c

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Lost User

The rest of the Arab world can do nothing about it, if they want to become a democracy. It is good that the people in power want it to be a democracy. Now that, Qatar is also an ally to the US, they don't have any military threats, though it is probable that they may face terrorist threats. ...and it is too small for of any particular interest to the West, in an economic sense. So, installed dictators can also be ruled out. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Chris Losinger

Thomas George wrote: The rest of the Arab world can do nothing about it, if they want to become a democracy. that depends on strong the Qatar leaders really are, and if they can stand up to the pressure from Saudi Arabia and others. SA doesn't want a democracy on its borders, especially one that's not completely strict about Islamist laws. but by mid-east standards, it's a beacon of modernity. -c

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Lost User

Bahrain is also progressive, even though it is not a democracy. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Richard Stringer

History begs to differ. As an exercise for the reader try to determine what was the longest period of peace and what was the underlying cause. I don't do homework Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles

Lost User

Peace because of fear does not necessarily mean winning of hearts and minds. Since we are not talking about peace, rather about hearts and minds, history can provide no conclusive evidence about it. If you can point out atleast one foreign occupation or invasion that won hearts and minds by the use of power, I am entitled to change my opinion. Don't be under any illusion that Japanese and Germans love US, because of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and carpet bombing of Berlin. If they are allies now, it is not because of the power you wield, rather because of the trust they have. The moment you tell them that you are followers and have no choice other than that, you have lost their hearts and minds as well as their trust. As your signature points out, it is a fundamental decision about what price are we willing to pay for producing Michelangelo, da Vinci and Renaissance. I would take the peace and harmony with the cuckoo's clock. I guess you would take the other. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Richard Stringer

Well by your definition it ( hearts and minds ) can only be won thru a conversion of the thought process on a rather primordial level. That is not mine. Look at the Roman Empire for a good example. As to my sig that changes at whim but yes - I do believe that civilization advances thru warfare and conflict - history show that to be true and also that conflict is the primary cause of civilization as we know it today. A banding together to protect against outsiders was the earlist type of civilization. A dynamic existance , albeit short , is preferable to a stagnat existance. Beside the fact that humans, being a primate species, is tribal in nature , and will never be at peace with other tribes unless there is a mutual gain to be had. And once that gain is negated its back to the old ways. You can't fool Mother nature. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles