America's blind spot
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America's blind spot : Pakistan First Article[^] Second Article[^] Source : Indian website... Don't :beer: and drive.
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America's blind spot : Pakistan First Article[^] Second Article[^] Source : Indian website... Don't :beer: and drive.
So, do you want America to impose sanctions against them because they traded missiles with North Korea ? As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia.
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So, do you want America to impose sanctions against them because they traded missiles with North Korea ? As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia.
John-theKing wrote: As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia. What treaty/rule/law did that break? Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. A whole industry thrives on it. As long as everybody stays within the legal bounds, things are OK. As far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far. So your point is moot and is nothing but finger pointing, which anyway is not going to achieve anything. Now Pakistan on the other hand is an entirely different story. Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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So, do you want America to impose sanctions against them because they traded missiles with North Korea ? As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia.
There is difference between collaboration and transfer (copying). And India openly does so, not like others. Deepak Khajuria
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John-theKing wrote: As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia. What treaty/rule/law did that break? Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. A whole industry thrives on it. As long as everybody stays within the legal bounds, things are OK. As far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far. So your point is moot and is nothing but finger pointing, which anyway is not going to achieve anything. Now Pakistan on the other hand is an entirely different story. Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. 110% agreed. Rohit Sinha wrote: far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far Leme tell you that Indian company also came under recent sanctions imposed by America on North Korean and Chinese companies. Rohit Sinha wrote: Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself. No need to provide any link because this is not something new. The "experts" you are pointing out are the ones under control of Indian lobby inside USA. And this lobby is currently not doing what the Government wanted (as you saw recently, US is totally against the pre-emptive strikes suggestions of Mr. Sinha against his neighbour).
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America's blind spot : Pakistan First Article[^] Second Article[^] Source : Indian website... Don't :beer: and drive.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. 110% agreed. Rohit Sinha wrote: far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far Leme tell you that Indian company also came under recent sanctions imposed by America on North Korean and Chinese companies. Rohit Sinha wrote: Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself. No need to provide any link because this is not something new. The "experts" you are pointing out are the ones under control of Indian lobby inside USA. And this lobby is currently not doing what the Government wanted (as you saw recently, US is totally against the pre-emptive strikes suggestions of Mr. Sinha against his neighbour).
Shah Shehpori wrote: Leme tell you that Indian company also came under recent sanctions imposed by America on North Korean and Chinese companies. Which company? Have you got anything more substantial than allegations? Shah Shehpori wrote: No need to provide any link because this is not something new. The "experts" you are pointing out are the ones under control of Indian lobby inside USA. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: This is so funny.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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anything coming from India in relation to Pakistan should be read with some skepticism, they arent exactly best buddies.
True. But you can try to verify the story from other sources. There have been allegations from the US and sanctions too on the research organisation on this matter, all very recent. What the article author is trying to say is that what's the point in imposing the sanction on just the company, when it is known that it's state owned and the other party to the deal, N. Korea got a sanction imposed on it, and above all, the said organisation does not buy nor sell anything from the US, so imposing a sanction on it is like telling a vegetarian that you won't sell them any meat.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Shah Shehpori wrote: Leme tell you that Indian company also came under recent sanctions imposed by America on North Korean and Chinese companies. Which company? Have you got anything more substantial than allegations? Shah Shehpori wrote: No need to provide any link because this is not something new. The "experts" you are pointing out are the ones under control of Indian lobby inside USA. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: This is so funny.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: Which company? Have you got anything more substantial than allegations? Yes, three companies came under sanctions, one in from North Korea, second is from Pakistan and third is from India. Indian company is NEC Engineers Private Ltd, which according to US, was involved in arms exports to Iraq. (Funy to note that these three companies never relied on US aid)
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. 110% agreed. Rohit Sinha wrote: far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far Leme tell you that Indian company also came under recent sanctions imposed by America on North Korean and Chinese companies. Rohit Sinha wrote: Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself. No need to provide any link because this is not something new. The "experts" you are pointing out are the ones under control of Indian lobby inside USA. And this lobby is currently not doing what the Government wanted (as you saw recently, US is totally against the pre-emptive strikes suggestions of Mr. Sinha against his neighbour).
Shah Shehpori wrote: as you saw recently, US is totally against the pre-emptive strikes suggestions of Mr. Sinha against his neighbour Of course everyone, including me, is against a pre-emtive strike. All Yashwant Sinha said, from what I remember, was that India has got more reasons for a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan than the US has for Iraq, at least those known publicly. For example, close to 40,000 people have died so far in Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks in India. And he said that since the cross border infiltration and Pakistan sponsored terrorism are not stopping, we will take any measures to stop it. Now people put two and two together and concluded that he was hinting at a pre-emtive strike. IMO, he was not. Others have said so, but not him. Being the foreign minister of India, what he says bears more importance than other, "normal" people, for example a "defence expert" or a columnist, and I don't think he would make such a foolish statement as this. I could be wrong though. There is no telling with politicians.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Which company? Have you got anything more substantial than allegations? Yes, three companies came under sanctions, one in from North Korea, second is from Pakistan and third is from India. Indian company is NEC Engineers Private Ltd, which according to US, was involved in arms exports to Iraq. (Funy to note that these three companies never relied on US aid)
Uh, OK. I didn't hear anything about it. I guess it was either suppressed or not given enough attention (more likely) in the news channels. And I don't read newspapers. Do you have any links susbtantiating this, btw? I didn't find any on the BBC website. In any case, NEC Engineers Private Ltd is a privately held company (unlike the Pakistani one, which is government owned), and I wonder what a privately held company can do in the area of nuclear weapons technology to be able to draw sanctions upon itself. This looks to me something like the case where one Indian company, also privately held, was in the news for supplying aluminium powder to Iraq, which they allegedly used to make some kind of weapons. :~ The judical inquiry and hearing is still on, as far as I know. Besides, the government can't be held responsible for each and every thing that takes place. It can only take action after something has happened, or try to stop it before hand provided they learn about it. It will be held responsible if no appropriate action is taken, or measures to stop it.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Shah Shehpori wrote: as you saw recently, US is totally against the pre-emptive strikes suggestions of Mr. Sinha against his neighbour Of course everyone, including me, is against a pre-emtive strike. All Yashwant Sinha said, from what I remember, was that India has got more reasons for a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan than the US has for Iraq, at least those known publicly. For example, close to 40,000 people have died so far in Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks in India. And he said that since the cross border infiltration and Pakistan sponsored terrorism are not stopping, we will take any measures to stop it. Now people put two and two together and concluded that he was hinting at a pre-emtive strike. IMO, he was not. Others have said so, but not him. Being the foreign minister of India, what he says bears more importance than other, "normal" people, for example a "defence expert" or a columnist, and I don't think he would make such a foolish statement as this. I could be wrong though. There is no telling with politicians.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: For example, close to 40,000 people have died so far in Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks in India. Indian govt + agencies are killing innocent people of Kashmir (mostly hindus and Sikhs) to blame Freedom Fighters in order to divert the world's attention from just cause of freedom struggle. Well, above are the words spoken by Pak ambasador to UN on number of occasions. If i am a neutral person then why i believe your claim that they are involved in 40,000 murders, and why do i believe about their claim that India is itself involved. IMO Musharraf has recently played his cards very well. For the first time i noticed such a strict reaction by US foreign office against Sinha's remarks. But this is temporary because India is a strategic partner of US while Pak is a tactical partner. Letme tell you that war against terrorism in India is India's war alone and we should take all possible measures without seeking anyone's permission, as we are not responsible for compromising with the wills of big powers.
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John-theKing wrote: As such IMO America should first impose sanctions against India for obtaining Brahmos missile technology from Russia. What treaty/rule/law did that break? Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. A whole industry thrives on it. As long as everybody stays within the legal bounds, things are OK. As far as I know, India has not broken any treaty/rule/law so far. So your point is moot and is nothing but finger pointing, which anyway is not going to achieve anything. Now Pakistan on the other hand is an entirely different story. Just a few days back I saw on TV that US experts alleged that Pakistan had supplied nuclear technology to Al-Queda. But I didn't find any links on the web, nor was the story repeated on the TV itself.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. A whole industry thrives on it. As long as everybody stays within the legal bounds, things are OK. Actually, I completely disagree. I believe if we've learned anything from the last few decades, we've learned that selling weapons or weapons technology is absolutely unacceptable. I firmly believe that the US should stop selling arms immediately so that it can never again be accused of supporting a country which, though previously "friendly", now supports international terrorism. The worst case scenario is of course, American (or any other country's) soldiers having to face their own weapons being used against them. As for what defines "legal bounds", your guess is as good as mine, because it seems that, when it suits them, weapons manufacturers can either get around existing laws or deliberately flout them. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
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Rohit Sinha wrote: For example, close to 40,000 people have died so far in Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks in India. Indian govt + agencies are killing innocent people of Kashmir (mostly hindus and Sikhs) to blame Freedom Fighters in order to divert the world's attention from just cause of freedom struggle. Well, above are the words spoken by Pak ambasador to UN on number of occasions. If i am a neutral person then why i believe your claim that they are involved in 40,000 murders, and why do i believe about their claim that India is itself involved. IMO Musharraf has recently played his cards very well. For the first time i noticed such a strict reaction by US foreign office against Sinha's remarks. But this is temporary because India is a strategic partner of US while Pak is a tactical partner. Letme tell you that war against terrorism in India is India's war alone and we should take all possible measures without seeking anyone's permission, as we are not responsible for compromising with the wills of big powers.
It's not clear to me what exactly you are saying, especially your last remark. But I'll try. Anonymous wrote: Indian govt + agencies are killing innocent people of Kashmir (mostly hindus and Sikhs) to blame Freedom Fighters in order to divert the world's attention from just cause of freedom struggle. This is the most ridiculous remark I have seen coming from the Pakistani side. I hope others are more intelligent than you. Our government, killing our own people, so they can have a case against Pakistan? Pakistan, a country which doesn't need proof for everyone to know that they spread terror? The N. Korea connection, the Taliban connection, the Josh-e-Taiyaba connection, the Harkat-ul-Islam or whatever connetion, the list goes on and on. Pakistani sponsored people tried to blow up our Parliament building last year. Pakistani people have been trying to blow up trains and buses in Mumbai and Delhi. Pakistani people tried to blow up the US embassy in Kolkata in West Bengal. Pakistani people keep coming to Jammu and Kashmir and kill innocent civilians. And now that the police and army are more alert, and are getting some success in stopping your guys, your guys and ISI are just getting more and more desperate and resort to killing people in the areas of Kashmir which are far away and difficult to reach but close to the border, so you can come in and go easily. You are either lying or don't know. I'll assume the former. It's Pakistani sponsored terrorism really. There are over 140 terrorist training camps all over the Pakistan occupied Kashmir where terrorists are given training and one along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border where Taliban fighters are being trained. All of the terrorists arrested or killed in India are known to have Pakistan connections. Your saying it repeatedly will not change the facts. Anonymous wrote: If i am a neutral person then why i believe your claim that they are involved in 40,000 murders Body count. And sometime when the police was able to nab the killers, confessions from them. Or intelligence. Or things found in their possession, like Pakistani currency notes, visiting cards, addresses, the weapons that they use, and lots of other stuff. Anonymous wrote: For the first time i noticed such a strict reaction by US foreign office against Sinha's remarks. What action, and what remark? Do you have any link to back up your claim, or will you go on making your own stupid allegations? If
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Weapons exchange and sale is perfectly acceptable worldwide. A whole industry thrives on it. As long as everybody stays within the legal bounds, things are OK. Actually, I completely disagree. I believe if we've learned anything from the last few decades, we've learned that selling weapons or weapons technology is absolutely unacceptable. I firmly believe that the US should stop selling arms immediately so that it can never again be accused of supporting a country which, though previously "friendly", now supports international terrorism. The worst case scenario is of course, American (or any other country's) soldiers having to face their own weapons being used against them. As for what defines "legal bounds", your guess is as good as mine, because it seems that, when it suits them, weapons manufacturers can either get around existing laws or deliberately flout them. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
No, I am saying something else. I think we are going into a moral vs. legal debate here. My point was that if it is legal, you can't say, look look, they are doing it, so let's impose sanctions on them. It's legal. First change the laws and then let's talk about sanctions whenever someone breaks those laws. I agree that weapons exchange and proliferation should stop. But that's not what I am debating here. I also agree that what is within legal bounds, and what's not is very flexible. But that is the current situation now and we have to deal with it. And as the other poster said, I haven't heard any one raising even an eye brow about the Brahmos missile technology thing between Russia and India. It must have been perfectly legal and acceptable. phykell wrote: I firmly believe that the US should stop selling arms immediately so that it can never again be accused of supporting a country which, though previously "friendly", now supports international terrorism. The worst case scenario is of course, American (or any other country's) soldiers having to face their own weapons being used against them. This perfectly applies in the Pakistan-US scenario. But I don't think the US has been giving weapons to Pakistan. I could be wrong though. Money, yes. Aid, yes. Weapons, no. And I also don't think any country will sell the latest weapon ware that it has. They always sell the older generation ones, just to avoid the scenario you mentioned. But at the end of the day we all need money.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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It's not clear to me what exactly you are saying, especially your last remark. But I'll try. Anonymous wrote: Indian govt + agencies are killing innocent people of Kashmir (mostly hindus and Sikhs) to blame Freedom Fighters in order to divert the world's attention from just cause of freedom struggle. This is the most ridiculous remark I have seen coming from the Pakistani side. I hope others are more intelligent than you. Our government, killing our own people, so they can have a case against Pakistan? Pakistan, a country which doesn't need proof for everyone to know that they spread terror? The N. Korea connection, the Taliban connection, the Josh-e-Taiyaba connection, the Harkat-ul-Islam or whatever connetion, the list goes on and on. Pakistani sponsored people tried to blow up our Parliament building last year. Pakistani people have been trying to blow up trains and buses in Mumbai and Delhi. Pakistani people tried to blow up the US embassy in Kolkata in West Bengal. Pakistani people keep coming to Jammu and Kashmir and kill innocent civilians. And now that the police and army are more alert, and are getting some success in stopping your guys, your guys and ISI are just getting more and more desperate and resort to killing people in the areas of Kashmir which are far away and difficult to reach but close to the border, so you can come in and go easily. You are either lying or don't know. I'll assume the former. It's Pakistani sponsored terrorism really. There are over 140 terrorist training camps all over the Pakistan occupied Kashmir where terrorists are given training and one along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border where Taliban fighters are being trained. All of the terrorists arrested or killed in India are known to have Pakistan connections. Your saying it repeatedly will not change the facts. Anonymous wrote: If i am a neutral person then why i believe your claim that they are involved in 40,000 murders Body count. And sometime when the police was able to nab the killers, confessions from them. Or intelligence. Or things found in their possession, like Pakistani currency notes, visiting cards, addresses, the weapons that they use, and lots of other stuff. Anonymous wrote: For the first time i noticed such a strict reaction by US foreign office against Sinha's remarks. What action, and what remark? Do you have any link to back up your claim, or will you go on making your own stupid allegations? If
Rohit Sinha wrote: What action, and what remark? This was the headline[^] of many news papers in India few days ago. The news was quoted by Indian media in different manners. Like this[^] one also. Rohit Sinha wrote: Or things found in their possession, like Pakistani currency notes, visiting cards, addresses, the weapons that they use, and lots of other stuff. **cough***cough, they also catch criminals and says that the stuff captured from them is Indian :-D Rohit Sinha wrote: There are over 140 terrorist training camps all over the Pakistan occupied Kashmir You counted yourself ?? Have you ever been to POK ?? Or just presenting figures presented by your media. If these are the figures presented by your intelligence or media, then sorry, I'll keep away from it, thank you very much.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: What action, and what remark? This was the headline[^] of many news papers in India few days ago. The news was quoted by Indian media in different manners. Like this[^] one also. Rohit Sinha wrote: Or things found in their possession, like Pakistani currency notes, visiting cards, addresses, the weapons that they use, and lots of other stuff. **cough***cough, they also catch criminals and says that the stuff captured from them is Indian :-D Rohit Sinha wrote: There are over 140 terrorist training camps all over the Pakistan occupied Kashmir You counted yourself ?? Have you ever been to POK ?? Or just presenting figures presented by your media. If these are the figures presented by your intelligence or media, then sorry, I'll keep away from it, thank you very much.
Anonymous wrote: This was the headline[^] of many news papers in India few days ago. The news was quoted by Indian media in different manners. Like this[^] one also. Alright, thanks for those links. Though I couldn't get to the first one. Damned site says it can't find the XSL stylesheet for the page. I'll keep trying. Yes, he did say something to that effect. If you are arguing over the exact choice of words here, let me say that it is not in his hands to initiate a strike, and so it bears little consequence as far as a strike is concerned. Although it does reflect on Indian foreign policy. IMO, he was only presenting his case against Pakistan. Anonymous wrote: **cough***cough, they also catch criminals and says that the stuff captured from them is Indian Yes, why not. If they are Indian criminals, they are Indian. I never said Indians don't commit any crimes at all. But if they are Pakistanis, they are Pakistanis. And there is a difference between a normal criminal and a terrorist, I hope you realize that. Now don't tell me that they capture Indians and call them Pakistanis. That would be the stupidest thing you can do now. Anonymous wrote: You counted yourself ?? Have you ever been to POK ?? Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. Just because I didn't count them myself doesn't mean I can't use it in an argument. Yes, I saw it on TV. There are satellite photos of those camps. 140 of them, no less. It is up to you to dismiss those if you want to, but that won't change the facts. The opinions of an anonymous coward don't matter anyway. ;) I wonder why you are still anonymous though. Care to log in and post? I mean your actual login, not a new one. Or are you too coward to stand up for what you believe in? Or do you really believe it yourself? I also wonder what this argument is going to achieve. Try to open your eyes and see beyond the propaganda and stop reciting the party line you are being fed every day. Do you deny that Pakistan has a hand in the terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir? What if you did? Would it change anything? No.
Regards,Rohit Sinha