Civilian deaths in Iraq
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Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html
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Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html
FYI, following that link gives a 403 error (permission denied?). looks like the CSM doesn't allow deep linking. you can get to the story from their front page, though. *edit* just a bad link. */edit* -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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FYI, following that link gives a 403 error (permission denied?). looks like the CSM doesn't allow deep linking. you can get to the story from their front page, though. *edit* just a bad link. */edit* -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
At last you made your sig speak out against that anonymous coward(s)*. Make it more visible, though. Though I dont know if that will deter him/them. Regards,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design. -
FYI, following that link gives a 403 error (permission denied?). looks like the CSM doesn't allow deep linking. you can get to the story from their front page, though. *edit* just a bad link. */edit* -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: FYI, following that link gives a 403 error (permission denied?). looks like the CSM doesn't allow deep linking. you can get to the story from their front page, though. Looks like its actually linked to somewhere inside codeproject.. This works..: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html[^] --------------------------------------------------
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At last you made your sig speak out against that anonymous coward(s)*. Make it more visible, though. Though I dont know if that will deter him/them. Regards,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Though I dont know if that will deter him/them. i don't suspect it will. but, it seems it's all i can do. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html
A death is a death is a life ended. Civilian or otherwise. Why anyone is concerned about the number is beyond me. The important thing is to provide aid to those living and help in the rebuilding. Those that want to generate some bizarre statistic have some misguided agenda to follow. The politic word comes to my mind. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002. "Microsoft hasn't ever enforced its patents. Apparently they keep them for defensive reasons only. Or, they could be waiting 'til they have a critical mass of patents, enforce them all at once and win the game of Risk that they're playing with the world." Chris Sells Feb 18, 2003.
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A death is a death is a life ended. Civilian or otherwise. Why anyone is concerned about the number is beyond me. The important thing is to provide aid to those living and help in the rebuilding. Those that want to generate some bizarre statistic have some misguided agenda to follow. The politic word comes to my mind. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002. "Microsoft hasn't ever enforced its patents. Apparently they keep them for defensive reasons only. Or, they could be waiting 'til they have a critical mass of patents, enforce them all at once and win the game of Risk that they're playing with the world." Chris Sells Feb 18, 2003.
Chris Meech wrote: Why anyone is concerned about the number is beyond me. If I tell you "only 6 people were killed on 9/11", does it matter that my number is wrong? To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html
Weird how they jumped the gun on this one. Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. None of the local and foreign researchers were willing to speak for the record, however, until their tallies are complete. ...means that the number of civilian deaths might be as high as 10,000, say two researchers from two different teams who asked not to be identified until the evidence was clearer. The researchers (who are not identifed) won't confirm it yet, but the Christian Science Monitor will? Further, Iraqibodycount.net (which I would consider to be biased in terms of overestimating the number of civilian deaths) says, "Iraqbodycount.net, a website that draws on media accounts and eyewitness reports, estimates that between 4,065 and 5,223 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of coalition military action, both during and after the war." But, even though they are probably overestimating civilian deaths, I'm supposed to believe the Christian Science Monitor's shadowy anonymous sources which put the civilian deaths even higher? Are they more reliable than the Red Cresent official (which the CSM also cites, and which I would consider biased)? I think one of the problems here is that everyone doing body counts (despite the phrase "independent teams") is rather biased. Sorry, if I just don't trust organizations like "The Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict". I'll give the information more credibility once people are willing to identify who they are and what organizations they work for. Only then can I analyse what kind of political motivations they might have for underestimating or overestimating their numbers. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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Chris Meech wrote: Why anyone is concerned about the number is beyond me. If I tell you "only 6 people were killed on 9/11", does it matter that my number is wrong? To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: does it matter that my number is wrong? If you place emphasis on the number, then the tragedy of the loss of life becomes over shadowed. What is of more importance is that people were killed on 9/11. Not whether it was 6, or 3000 or whatever number someone want's to preach. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002. "Microsoft hasn't ever enforced its patents. Apparently they keep them for defensive reasons only. Or, they could be waiting 'til they have a critical mass of patents, enforce them all at once and win the game of Risk that they're playing with the world." Chris Sells Feb 18, 2003.
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Though I dont know if that will deter him/them. i don't suspect it will. but, it seems it's all i can do. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Chris Losinger wrote: does it matter that my number is wrong? If you place emphasis on the number, then the tragedy of the loss of life becomes over shadowed. What is of more importance is that people were killed on 9/11. Not whether it was 6, or 3000 or whatever number someone want's to preach. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002. "Microsoft hasn't ever enforced its patents. Apparently they keep them for defensive reasons only. Or, they could be waiting 'til they have a critical mass of patents, enforce them all at once and win the game of Risk that they're playing with the world." Chris Sells Feb 18, 2003.
Chris Meech wrote: What is of more importance is that people were killed on 9/11. Not whether it was 6, or 3000 morally, i agree : the fact that people were killed matters, regardless of how many. but, much of what's happened in the past 18 months is due to the number of people killed and how they were killed. the WTC was bombed in 1993 and 6 people died - but we didn't pass a whole host of new laws in response and we didn't invade two countries while singing "we'll put a boot in yr ass". scale matters, in some things. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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:( crap To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Chris Meech wrote: What is of more importance is that people were killed on 9/11. Not whether it was 6, or 3000 morally, i agree : the fact that people were killed matters, regardless of how many. but, much of what's happened in the past 18 months is due to the number of people killed and how they were killed. the WTC was bombed in 1993 and 6 people died - but we didn't pass a whole host of new laws in response and we didn't invade two countries while singing "we'll put a boot in yr ass". scale matters, in some things. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: scale matters, in some things In my mind that is part of the whole problem. Scale, from a loss of life point of view, should not matter at all. It is too often used to justify some reaction instead of an clear analysis of motives, reasons and objectives. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002. "Microsoft hasn't ever enforced its patents. Apparently they keep them for defensive reasons only. Or, they could be waiting 'til they have a critical mass of patents, enforce them all at once and win the game of Risk that they're playing with the world." Chris Sells Feb 18, 2003.
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Weird how they jumped the gun on this one. Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. None of the local and foreign researchers were willing to speak for the record, however, until their tallies are complete. ...means that the number of civilian deaths might be as high as 10,000, say two researchers from two different teams who asked not to be identified until the evidence was clearer. The researchers (who are not identifed) won't confirm it yet, but the Christian Science Monitor will? Further, Iraqibodycount.net (which I would consider to be biased in terms of overestimating the number of civilian deaths) says, "Iraqbodycount.net, a website that draws on media accounts and eyewitness reports, estimates that between 4,065 and 5,223 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of coalition military action, both during and after the war." But, even though they are probably overestimating civilian deaths, I'm supposed to believe the Christian Science Monitor's shadowy anonymous sources which put the civilian deaths even higher? Are they more reliable than the Red Cresent official (which the CSM also cites, and which I would consider biased)? I think one of the problems here is that everyone doing body counts (despite the phrase "independent teams") is rather biased. Sorry, if I just don't trust organizations like "The Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict". I'll give the information more credibility once people are willing to identify who they are and what organizations they work for. Only then can I analyse what kind of political motivations they might have for underestimating or overestimating their numbers. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
More important than the numbers is the fact that the Iraqi people now have freedom. I know I would be willing to give my life for freedom and tens of thousands of people in countries all across Europe lost their lives (civilian and military) to have the freedom that we enjoy now. It is not free and will always come at a high price.
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Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html
A number of them were killed by the Ba'ath party members for having mobile phones. I suspect many others were killed out of habit X| Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Weird how they jumped the gun on this one. Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. None of the local and foreign researchers were willing to speak for the record, however, until their tallies are complete. ...means that the number of civilian deaths might be as high as 10,000, say two researchers from two different teams who asked not to be identified until the evidence was clearer. The researchers (who are not identifed) won't confirm it yet, but the Christian Science Monitor will? Further, Iraqibodycount.net (which I would consider to be biased in terms of overestimating the number of civilian deaths) says, "Iraqbodycount.net, a website that draws on media accounts and eyewitness reports, estimates that between 4,065 and 5,223 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of coalition military action, both during and after the war." But, even though they are probably overestimating civilian deaths, I'm supposed to believe the Christian Science Monitor's shadowy anonymous sources which put the civilian deaths even higher? Are they more reliable than the Red Cresent official (which the CSM also cites, and which I would consider biased)? I think one of the problems here is that everyone doing body counts (despite the phrase "independent teams") is rather biased. Sorry, if I just don't trust organizations like "The Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict". I'll give the information more credibility once people are willing to identify who they are and what organizations they work for. Only then can I analyse what kind of political motivations they might have for underestimating or overestimating their numbers. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Brit, shame on you. We need numbers, large numbers, 'cause public apathy towards this horribly unjust war is growing. People need to be shocked and horrified - dry, carefully-researched facts just won't do! Now who really cares just how many actual civilian deaths there were, or who actually killed them. The point is, we all know there were civilians brutally gunned down by the Brutal United States Military, and this will not do! Let's all do whatever it takes to get the public in an uproar about this, truth be damned!
and yes, i was *so* hoping for a scalding reply to this by someone, instead of votes. X|
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
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At last you made your sig speak out against that anonymous coward(s)*. Make it more visible, though. Though I dont know if that will deter him/them. Regards,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design. -
Weird how they jumped the gun on this one. Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country. None of the local and foreign researchers were willing to speak for the record, however, until their tallies are complete. ...means that the number of civilian deaths might be as high as 10,000, say two researchers from two different teams who asked not to be identified until the evidence was clearer. The researchers (who are not identifed) won't confirm it yet, but the Christian Science Monitor will? Further, Iraqibodycount.net (which I would consider to be biased in terms of overestimating the number of civilian deaths) says, "Iraqbodycount.net, a website that draws on media accounts and eyewitness reports, estimates that between 4,065 and 5,223 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of coalition military action, both during and after the war." But, even though they are probably overestimating civilian deaths, I'm supposed to believe the Christian Science Monitor's shadowy anonymous sources which put the civilian deaths even higher? Are they more reliable than the Red Cresent official (which the CSM also cites, and which I would consider biased)? I think one of the problems here is that everyone doing body counts (despite the phrase "independent teams") is rather biased. Sorry, if I just don't trust organizations like "The Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict". I'll give the information more credibility once people are willing to identify who they are and what organizations they work for. Only then can I analyse what kind of political motivations they might have for underestimating or overestimating their numbers. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Brit wrote: which I would consider to be biased in terms of ... I've got practically no interest in this matter any more, but who is unbiased? I mean, the US media is biased when it comes to reporting stuff about the war, the Iraqi media is biased about exaggerating civilian deaths, ...the truth is, NOBODY is unbiased.
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design. -
:( crap To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
See post just below also.
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update. To make anonymous posts is also to follow the way of the coward. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design. -
Brit wrote: which I would consider to be biased in terms of ... I've got practically no interest in this matter any more, but who is unbiased? I mean, the US media is biased when it comes to reporting stuff about the war, the Iraqi media is biased about exaggerating civilian deaths, ...the truth is, NOBODY is unbiased.
Vikram. ----------------------------- My site due for a massive update Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I've got practically no interest in this matter any more, but who is unbiased? I mean, the US media is biased when it comes to reporting stuff about the war, the Iraqi media is biased about exaggerating civilian deaths, ...the truth is, NOBODY is unbiased. Ergo I should believe everything or believe nothing because none are perfectly unbiased? No thanks. The "nobody is unbiased" phrase is deceptive because it avoids the obvious fact that some are more biased than others, just like "nobody is perfect" doesn't mean everyone is equally good or bad. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion