Hillary Rodham Clinton not running...
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Yeah, I know. Those are a few of the many reasons I hated to vote for the guy. Still, like everyone else, I figured he was probably lieing about it - so that gave me some comfort. ;)
Stan Shannon wrote: Still, like everyone else, I figured he was probably lieing about it Maybe the Republicans should build on that. Maybe make a campaign slogan: "Bush, take comfort in his lies" "Bush 2004. Elect a liar!" "Bush, the liar to beat!" "Bush, sure he's a liar. But at least he doesn't get blow jobs!" "Bush lies, your sons die!" ;P -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Chris Losinger wrote: he prefers that gun control be handled at the state level; Which is interesting because Vermont has some of the least strict gun control laws in the nation...right up there with Texas. Chris Losinger wrote: he's fiscally conservative, but socially liberal Socially liberal means he likes things like welfare, medicare, social security, saving the environment, etc. These programs all require money, hence, he has to spend more... At a basic level it seems like a paradox. (Don't worry, I understand that you can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative...I'm just pointing out something I thought was kind of funny. :-D) Do you think any of them will win against Bush though? I mean theoretically according to the last election, most of the nation leans left. However, do you think that Bush has done a good enough job as President to secure the next election? I mean, his approval rate (last time I heard) was really good. I'm just looking to get a perspective from the other side.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
David Stone wrote: Socially liberal means he likes things like welfare, medicare, social security, saving the environment, etc. it certainly does not. "socially liberal" (as i used it) means he isn't interested in legislating morality. "fiscally conservative" means that while he was governor, VTs state budget was actually balanced. David Stone wrote: Do you think any of them will win against Bush though? no, not given the right-wing slant of TV news programs, and the fact that Bush will demolish all previous campaign spending records. David Stone wrote: However, do you think that Bush has done a good enough job as President to secure the next election? i think he gives off the appearance of having done well. he has had the tremendous luck of having nearly the entire media in his back pocket. things are starting to crack now, though, as the economy still falters, the WMDs aren't showing up, his cabinet is fracturing, etc.. i think he'll probably ride the war bounce into a narrow victory. David Stone wrote: I mean, his approval rate (last time I heard) was really good. it is, but it's been falling steadily for the past 2 months - the war bounce is over. now he has to work on at least giving the appearance that he's reversing the trend of losing 400K+ jobs per month. 3M jobs lost so far under his presidency. it's very rare (never?) that a president is reelected under a net loss of jobs. and, while people are excited about the "tax cuts", once they realize what it will cost them in terms of service, the Republicans will be in trouble. it's one thing to bitch about the cost of government programs and demand tax cuts, it's quite another to throw gramma out on the street - most people aren't libertarian purists, they just want comfortable lives. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: Anyone winning in the 2004 Democrat primaries is likely to be seen by most American Voters as a left wing extremist which means the american public is as dumb as dirt. :( To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: which means the american public is as dumb as dirt. Which also includes you. In Your opinion. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Chris Losinger wrote: which means the american public is as dumb as dirt. How so?
because not a single one of the realistic D candidates are even close to "extreme". without a doubt, GWBs spin team will try to paint them all as "extreme left wing commies" but anyone can look at their positions and tell that they're all right in the center. but, people won't look. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Chris Losinger wrote: which means the american public is as dumb as dirt. Which also includes you. In Your opinion. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
and you, too, of course. To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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David Stone wrote: Socially liberal means he likes things like welfare, medicare, social security, saving the environment, etc. it certainly does not. "socially liberal" (as i used it) means he isn't interested in legislating morality. "fiscally conservative" means that while he was governor, VTs state budget was actually balanced. David Stone wrote: Do you think any of them will win against Bush though? no, not given the right-wing slant of TV news programs, and the fact that Bush will demolish all previous campaign spending records. David Stone wrote: However, do you think that Bush has done a good enough job as President to secure the next election? i think he gives off the appearance of having done well. he has had the tremendous luck of having nearly the entire media in his back pocket. things are starting to crack now, though, as the economy still falters, the WMDs aren't showing up, his cabinet is fracturing, etc.. i think he'll probably ride the war bounce into a narrow victory. David Stone wrote: I mean, his approval rate (last time I heard) was really good. it is, but it's been falling steadily for the past 2 months - the war bounce is over. now he has to work on at least giving the appearance that he's reversing the trend of losing 400K+ jobs per month. 3M jobs lost so far under his presidency. it's very rare (never?) that a president is reelected under a net loss of jobs. and, while people are excited about the "tax cuts", once they realize what it will cost them in terms of service, the Republicans will be in trouble. it's one thing to bitch about the cost of government programs and demand tax cuts, it's quite another to throw gramma out on the street - most people aren't libertarian purists, they just want comfortable lives. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: it certainly does not. "socially liberal" (as i used it) means he isn't interested in legislating morality. Ah, most people I know (Right wingers ;)) use it the way I did. Chris Losinger wrote: not given the right-wing slant of TV news programs Now there's something that couldn't be said a few years ago...funny how things change isn't it? Chris Losinger wrote: i think he'll probably ride the war bounce into a narrow victory. I agree with you there. I don't think that he's going to be re-elected by some great overwhelming landslide. Even I'll admit that I'm still curious as to where the WMDs are, and that doesn't look all that great when the sole reason we went in there was because of them. However, do you really think it's the President's job to straighten out the economy? I mean, theoretically that's Greenspan's job. I do realize that the President has a great deal of influence over the economy, but can he really be held responsible for things not going well? Especially when he inherited an economy that was severely damaged from the Clinton years?
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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because not a single one of the realistic D candidates are even close to "extreme". without a doubt, GWBs spin team will try to paint them all as "extreme left wing commies" but anyone can look at their positions and tell that they're all right in the center. but, people won't look. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
but do you think GWB is "extreme" and thus is supporters?
Jason Henderson
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Chris Losinger wrote: he prefers that gun control be handled at the state level; Which is interesting because Vermont has some of the least strict gun control laws in the nation...right up there with Texas. Chris Losinger wrote: he's fiscally conservative, but socially liberal Socially liberal means he likes things like welfare, medicare, social security, saving the environment, etc. These programs all require money, hence, he has to spend more... At a basic level it seems like a paradox. (Don't worry, I understand that you can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative...I'm just pointing out something I thought was kind of funny. :-D) Do you think any of them will win against Bush though? I mean theoretically according to the last election, most of the nation leans left. However, do you think that Bush has done a good enough job as President to secure the next election? I mean, his approval rate (last time I heard) was really good. I'm just looking to get a perspective from the other side.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
David Stone wrote: I mean theoretically according to the last election, most of the nation leans left. How do you get that out of the last mid-term election?
Jason Henderson
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Chris Losinger wrote: it certainly does not. "socially liberal" (as i used it) means he isn't interested in legislating morality. Ah, most people I know (Right wingers ;)) use it the way I did. Chris Losinger wrote: not given the right-wing slant of TV news programs Now there's something that couldn't be said a few years ago...funny how things change isn't it? Chris Losinger wrote: i think he'll probably ride the war bounce into a narrow victory. I agree with you there. I don't think that he's going to be re-elected by some great overwhelming landslide. Even I'll admit that I'm still curious as to where the WMDs are, and that doesn't look all that great when the sole reason we went in there was because of them. However, do you really think it's the President's job to straighten out the economy? I mean, theoretically that's Greenspan's job. I do realize that the President has a great deal of influence over the economy, but can he really be held responsible for things not going well? Especially when he inherited an economy that was severely damaged from the Clinton years?
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
David Stone wrote: and that doesn't look all that great when the sole reason we went in there was because of them. don't forget about that. David Stone wrote: However, do you really think it's the President's job to straighten out the economy? i think, if he is going to put the country in debt under the guise that he's helping the economy by providing "job stimulus", then he is giving the impression that it's his job. and, if his tax cuts work (or if the economy just recovers regardless) do you doubt that he'll take credit for it? on the other hand, if things don't improve, do you think he'll take credit for that too? but, yes, i do think it's his job. i realize he doesn't have a big bag of tricks, but he does have some like tax rates, works programs (the military being the biggest one we have) and using the DOJ to go after scandals like Enron in a way that boosts investor confidence instead of just bumbling along. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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but do you think GWB is "extreme" and thus is supporters?
Jason Henderson
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
extreme... no, i know he could go a lot farther to the right than he has. he is, though, the most conservative president i've ever seen. so, on that little scale, he is "extreme". his supporters? well, obviously that's a huge group, which includes everyone from the people who think Eric Rudolph is a hero to people who voted for GWB because he seemed like a friendly guy in the sound bites. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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and you, too, of course. To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Yes, but it is not my opinion. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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extreme... no, i know he could go a lot farther to the right than he has. he is, though, the most conservative president i've ever seen. so, on that little scale, he is "extreme". his supporters? well, obviously that's a huge group, which includes everyone from the people who think Eric Rudolph is a hero to people who voted for GWB because he seemed like a friendly guy in the sound bites. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: he is, though, the most conservative president i've ever seen. :confused: What is your scale in making this statement. I would consider Reagan definitly more conservative. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Yes, but it is not my opinion. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: but it is not my opinion. neither is it mine. i thought we were playing the hyperbole game. To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Chris Losinger wrote: he is, though, the most conservative president i've ever seen. :confused: What is your scale in making this statement. I would consider Reagan definitly more conservative. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
i'm 32, so my experience includes Reagan and Bush I. i don't remember Nixon or much of Ford (except that Chevy Chase played him in the first few seasons of SNL). it's just an opinion, of course - i don't know if there's a Metric Standard of Conformity to Conservative Ideaology (aka, the MSCCI). -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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David Stone wrote: and that doesn't look all that great when the sole reason we went in there was because of them. don't forget about that. David Stone wrote: However, do you really think it's the President's job to straighten out the economy? i think, if he is going to put the country in debt under the guise that he's helping the economy by providing "job stimulus", then he is giving the impression that it's his job. and, if his tax cuts work (or if the economy just recovers regardless) do you doubt that he'll take credit for it? on the other hand, if things don't improve, do you think he'll take credit for that too? but, yes, i do think it's his job. i realize he doesn't have a big bag of tricks, but he does have some like tax rates, works programs (the military being the biggest one we have) and using the DOJ to go after scandals like Enron in a way that boosts investor confidence instead of just bumbling along. -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: don't forget about that It doesn't make any difference if I do...I still won't be able to vote next election. Man, one felony conviction and you're branded for life... ;) Chris Losinger wrote: but, yes, i do think it's his job. i realize he doesn't have a big bag of tricks, but he does have some like tax rates, works programs (the military being the biggest one we have) and using the DOJ to go after scandals like Enron in a way that boosts investor confidence instead of just bumbling along. Ah! Well said Chris. I hadn't even thought of most of that. It's amazing...but I think I'm starting to agree with you on some of this stuff... :omg:
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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David Stone wrote: I mean theoretically according to the last election, most of the nation leans left. How do you get that out of the last mid-term election?
Jason Henderson
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
Jason Henderson wrote: How do you get that out of the last mid-term election? Busted! I meant the last Presidential election. But yeah...during the mid-term election, the Republicans did gain back the majority.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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i'm 32, so my experience includes Reagan and Bush I. i don't remember Nixon or much of Ford (except that Chevy Chase played him in the first few seasons of SNL). it's just an opinion, of course - i don't know if there's a Metric Standard of Conformity to Conservative Ideaology (aka, the MSCCI). -c To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
Chris Losinger wrote: i don't know if there's a Metric Standard of Conformity to Conservative Ideaology (aka, the MSCCI). We should develop one! Ford was sort of a Republican answer to Carter - just as ineffective, but doing less damage. He was a serious disappointment to me, as he was the only President in my lifetime who didn't have to make any campaign promises. To my thinking, that should have made him free enough of committments and secret agendas to really make a mark. He didn't - just sat there like a lump, smiling nice for the cameras, and entertaining us all with his futile attempts to chew gum and exit airplanes gracefully. Nixon was one of the strongest leaders we've ever had, and I think history will be kind to his memory. I am personally thankful to him for ending the Vietnam fiasco shortly after I became eligible for the draft.:-D But he also was the one in the hotseat when America lost its virginity. During his administration we discovered that the government does, indeed, lie to us; that there are unscrupulous people who really do want to harm us running things. He used his power to rule in the fashion of any despot, and even though we know that he wasn't the first, he was the one that got caught and our noses were rubbed in the fact. The pollyanna complacence of Americans was shattered then, and we've never recovered the innocence that our parents knew in their youth. A generation of disillusioned, cynical, and apathetic people was the result, and it will be a long time before the effects damp out of our society.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee..." -
Chris Losinger wrote: he prefers that gun control be handled at the state level; Which is interesting because Vermont has some of the least strict gun control laws in the nation...right up there with Texas. Chris Losinger wrote: he's fiscally conservative, but socially liberal Socially liberal means he likes things like welfare, medicare, social security, saving the environment, etc. These programs all require money, hence, he has to spend more... At a basic level it seems like a paradox. (Don't worry, I understand that you can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative...I'm just pointing out something I thought was kind of funny. :-D) Do you think any of them will win against Bush though? I mean theoretically according to the last election, most of the nation leans left. However, do you think that Bush has done a good enough job as President to secure the next election? I mean, his approval rate (last time I heard) was really good. I'm just looking to get a perspective from the other side.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
David Stone wrote: Which is interesting because Vermont has some of the least strict gun control laws in the nation Yes it does, along with one of the lowest violent crimes rates in the world. He feels that states do a better job of managing such issues, and I quite agree. Nothing the federal gov't has done has had any impact on crime, other than to raise the cost of fighting it, and to make it much more difficult for citizens to defend themselves. I definitely will be watching this candidate.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee..." -
Chris Losinger wrote: i don't know if there's a Metric Standard of Conformity to Conservative Ideaology (aka, the MSCCI). We should develop one! Ford was sort of a Republican answer to Carter - just as ineffective, but doing less damage. He was a serious disappointment to me, as he was the only President in my lifetime who didn't have to make any campaign promises. To my thinking, that should have made him free enough of committments and secret agendas to really make a mark. He didn't - just sat there like a lump, smiling nice for the cameras, and entertaining us all with his futile attempts to chew gum and exit airplanes gracefully. Nixon was one of the strongest leaders we've ever had, and I think history will be kind to his memory. I am personally thankful to him for ending the Vietnam fiasco shortly after I became eligible for the draft.:-D But he also was the one in the hotseat when America lost its virginity. During his administration we discovered that the government does, indeed, lie to us; that there are unscrupulous people who really do want to harm us running things. He used his power to rule in the fashion of any despot, and even though we know that he wasn't the first, he was the one that got caught and our noses were rubbed in the fact. The pollyanna complacence of Americans was shattered then, and we've never recovered the innocence that our parents knew in their youth. A generation of disillusioned, cynical, and apathetic people was the result, and it will be a long time before the effects damp out of our society.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee..."Roger Wright wrote: I am personally thankful to him for ending the Vietnam fiasco shortly after I became eligible for the draft. If he had done it a year earlier I would never have had to join the Navy.:mad:
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JoeSox wrote: We must provide every American access to quality, affordable health care. JoeSox wrote: We must cooperate with the community of nations in pursuing our foreign policy objectives JoeSox wrote: must protect our environment to preserve a natural heritage for our children's children to enjoy Sounds like a left wing extremist to me.
Stan Shannon wrote: must protect our environment to preserve a natural heritage for our children's children to enjoy How is this left wing extremist? How's it even left wing!? It's common sense. Don't you want your descendants to enjoy the richness of the american nature as you perhaps once did? -- I'm the figure head on a ship of fools