RANT: John Simmons and all that
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I wouldn't miss him any more than Sergio. Au contraire! Sergio is a putz and a moron. John, while his humor is caustic and he says what he thinks at the moment, is not an idiot (at least IMHO), and as a programmer I definitely respect what he has to say about software programming. While I do think that from time to time he definitely crosses the line, part of the fun in it is watching how people react. :) RL is far nastier than the occasional written barb that John may sling your way! As always, YMMV. Cheers ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
Jim Crafton wrote: RL is far nastier than the occasional written barb that John may sling your way! I prefer the term "carefully crafted acidic elucidation", and I don't "sling" anything. My elucidations impact each and every intended target, right square in their dots. :) ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Jason Henderson wrote: (Yes, John eats crap for breakfast. Does that surprise you?) Not at all considering the shit he posts. I've no time for bigots, and he proved he's one a long time ago. :mad: Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I've no time for bigots, But if you are against all bigots, doesn't that, by definition, make you a bigot, for being against an entire class of individuals? Quite the paradox. :-D "When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein
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But see, I wasn't ranting. It also appears that of 425,000 users, only a very small handful actually feel the need to voice their objections. That means over 425,000 users don't mind at all. You people should get with the program and side with the majority. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
Let me set the record straight here. I really don't care if you insult me ('cause it doesn't bother me) or anyone else, just do it here in the soapbox. I was not trying to say that what you said was wrong or that I agreed with you either. I just got tired of all the babies voting you down (and me for some reason). It added about 500 messages to the lounge which were totally useless. So, go ahead and try your best to insult me and get under my skin, I'm not bothered by you. I just want to let you know the original intent of my post.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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I wouldn't miss him any more than Sergio. Au contraire! Sergio is a putz and a moron. John, while his humor is caustic and he says what he thinks at the moment, is not an idiot (at least IMHO), and as a programmer I definitely respect what he has to say about software programming. While I do think that from time to time he definitely crosses the line, part of the fun in it is watching how people react. :) RL is far nastier than the occasional written barb that John may sling your way! As always, YMMV. Cheers ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
No. Personally, I'd rather be propositioned by Sergio than insulted by Simmons. The difference? Sergio is a shallow individual, whereas Simmon means to hurt. Why anyone welcomes his vitriol is beyond me. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I've no time for bigots, But if you are against all bigots, doesn't that, by definition, make you a bigot, for being against an entire class of individuals? Quite the paradox. :-D "When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein
No. In the same way I won't give any time to a racist. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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No. Personally, I'd rather be propositioned by Sergio than insulted by Simmons. The difference? Sergio is a shallow individual, whereas Simmon means to hurt. Why anyone welcomes his vitriol is beyond me. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I'd rather be propositioned by Sergio than insulted by Simmons Well, the first thing just ain't gonna happen unless Sergio is gay anyway, and since you keep pushing on the subject, lets go with the second thing. I do have a question that someone at work posed (oh yeah, we have four other programmers who are registered on CodeProject, and all of them think you look like a guy in drag, too): Before your loosing battle with a scalpel, did you consider yourself "gay" or "straight"? And what about after the operation? If you were straight before, and now that you're a "girl", doesn't that make you gay? If you were gay before, and now that you're a "girl", doesn't that make you - um - gay? The mind certainly boggles... ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Let me set the record straight here. I really don't care if you insult me ('cause it doesn't bother me) or anyone else, just do it here in the soapbox. I was not trying to say that what you said was wrong or that I agreed with you either. I just got tired of all the babies voting you down (and me for some reason). It added about 500 messages to the lounge which were totally useless. So, go ahead and try your best to insult me and get under my skin, I'm not bothered by you. I just want to let you know the original intent of my post.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I'm not trying to insult anyone (well, maybe Andy gets special treatment since he's recently decided he wanted to talk about it). The message voting thing is pretty stupid. I liked the idea of being able to create your own personal kill-file list so that you can't see other people's posts, but then what fun would that be? As for not insulting people in the lounge, that's not gonna stop, and not because I'm intentionally doing it. It's mostly bnecause people are too damn sensitive about how they interpret things, and no matter what you say, someone's gonna get offended. Like I've said so many times, that's their mental cross to bear. As long as I don't start cussing like a sailor, or making overtly violent statements, it's good to go in the lounge. If I want to take it up a notch or personally attack an individual with more vivid language, I would try to bring it here. So, I'm not trying to insult you, and I'm not even trying to insult Andy (well, maybe a little, but just in the last couple of days). And it wasn't 500 messages - it was more like 200. These people can kiss my redneck ass until the learn how to laugh a little. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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John Simmons wrote: Farm boy? She means you are from Texas, John. You know these people with cowboy hats and boots! jhaga CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote: ...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner. ...Good heavens!
I think farm boy is a british version of hillbilly/redneck, which does not, to my knowledge, apply only to Texans. ;) -- "It's a condition of mental divergence, I find myself on the planet Olgo part of a intellectual elite, prepared to subjugate the barbarian hordes on Pluto, but even though this is a totally convincing reality for me in every way, nevertheless Olgo is actually a construct on my psychee. I am mentally divergent in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life here."
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I think farm boy is a british version of hillbilly/redneck, which does not, to my knowledge, apply only to Texans. ;) -- "It's a condition of mental divergence, I find myself on the planet Olgo part of a intellectual elite, prepared to subjugate the barbarian hordes on Pluto, but even though this is a totally convincing reality for me in every way, nevertheless Olgo is actually a construct on my psychee. I am mentally divergent in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life here."
I see... Ok, here is a hillbilly joke as we happen to be in the soapbox: Third Graders Three third graders, a Catholic kid, an Italian kid and a Hillbilly kid are on the playground at recess. One of them suggests that they play a new game. "Lets see who has the largest penis," he says. "Okay." They all agree. The Catholic kid pulls down his zipper and whips it out. "That's nothing," says the Italian kid. He whips his out. His is a couple of inches longer. Now not to be outdone, the Hillbilly kid whips his out. It is by far the biggest, dwarfing the other two in both length and girth. The Catholic and Italian kid are stunned and amazed. "Wow that thing is huge!" they exclaim. That night, eating dinner at home, the Hillbilly kid's mother asks him what he did at school today. "Oh, we worked on a science project, had a math test and read out loud from a new book...and during recess, my friends and I played 'Let's see who has the largest penis." What kind of game is that, honey?" says the mother. "Well, me, Sidney and Anthony each pulled out our cranks, and I had the biggest! The other kids say its because I'm a Hillbilly. Is that true, Mom?" The Mom replies: "No, Honey. It's because you're twenty-three." CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote: ...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner. ...Good heavens!
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I see... Ok, here is a hillbilly joke as we happen to be in the soapbox: Third Graders Three third graders, a Catholic kid, an Italian kid and a Hillbilly kid are on the playground at recess. One of them suggests that they play a new game. "Lets see who has the largest penis," he says. "Okay." They all agree. The Catholic kid pulls down his zipper and whips it out. "That's nothing," says the Italian kid. He whips his out. His is a couple of inches longer. Now not to be outdone, the Hillbilly kid whips his out. It is by far the biggest, dwarfing the other two in both length and girth. The Catholic and Italian kid are stunned and amazed. "Wow that thing is huge!" they exclaim. That night, eating dinner at home, the Hillbilly kid's mother asks him what he did at school today. "Oh, we worked on a science project, had a math test and read out loud from a new book...and during recess, my friends and I played 'Let's see who has the largest penis." What kind of game is that, honey?" says the mother. "Well, me, Sidney and Anthony each pulled out our cranks, and I had the biggest! The other kids say its because I'm a Hillbilly. Is that true, Mom?" The Mom replies: "No, Honey. It's because you're twenty-three." CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote: ...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner. ...Good heavens!
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: The others keep their heads down. I don't blame them, but it's not my way. And you're implying I don't have the same right to not keep my head down and not speak my mind? Nothing like a good dose of hypocrisy in the morning. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Funnily enough, you're the only one I've encountered who isn't. Odd, that No, I'm just the only one who made an honest statement of what he thought. There's a lot of people lying to you, Andy. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: You obviously don't know me. I don't give in to intimidation, so try your hardest, farm boy. I don't think anyone does, and I'm not trying to intimidate you. Farm boy? ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
Sheesh John, get a fûckin' life man. I don't recall seeing a single comment regurgitated under your name in the past eighteen months that has been anything like those funny, witty and clever lines thrown out by the old John of a few years ago that some CPians know and love. Have you noticed something - very few more recent additions to our little community respond with agreement or laughter to your comments mate, and far fewer old timers do that used to. Maybe we just confused you before when we said we liked you making fun of us and you mistook that for approval to go and hurt a great number of other members, or maybe you are merely a bitter and twisted arsehole who gets his ego off on belittling others, I just don't know anymore. I hope it is the former, I've tried to believe it is the former, but after the last eighteen months I've been finding it harder to keep looking that way. Everybody has issues of their own, but you shouldn't have let your's kill off your character -- it was the only part of your personality that was worth a damn. It is comments like the one you just made, the middle one, which show you for who you really are: shite. It is by no mistake that the line you carry in your sig is dated October 2001. :|
David Wulff
"It is a helpless feeling to be unable to make something so terribly wrong... right."
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Sheesh John, get a fûckin' life man. I don't recall seeing a single comment regurgitated under your name in the past eighteen months that has been anything like those funny, witty and clever lines thrown out by the old John of a few years ago that some CPians know and love. Have you noticed something - very few more recent additions to our little community respond with agreement or laughter to your comments mate, and far fewer old timers do that used to. Maybe we just confused you before when we said we liked you making fun of us and you mistook that for approval to go and hurt a great number of other members, or maybe you are merely a bitter and twisted arsehole who gets his ego off on belittling others, I just don't know anymore. I hope it is the former, I've tried to believe it is the former, but after the last eighteen months I've been finding it harder to keep looking that way. Everybody has issues of their own, but you shouldn't have let your's kill off your character -- it was the only part of your personality that was worth a damn. It is comments like the one you just made, the middle one, which show you for who you really are: shite. It is by no mistake that the line you carry in your sig is dated October 2001. :|
David Wulff
"It is a helpless feeling to be unable to make something so terribly wrong... right."
First, I didn't start this line of discussion, Andy did. Second (and since you specifically mentioned it), it's not any skin off my back if Andy wants to go around thinking everyone's gonna be okay with what he did. I'm just giving him (evidently) new information that some of people around him that *say* they understand, don't actually understand at all, and further, probably don't really honestly want to be around him. Again, this should not come as a shock to him. Lastly, this whole thing started off with a joke about pay scales in India, so why don't you go review who the truly fucked up people are. It certainly isn't me. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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First, I didn't start this line of discussion, Andy did. Second (and since you specifically mentioned it), it's not any skin off my back if Andy wants to go around thinking everyone's gonna be okay with what he did. I'm just giving him (evidently) new information that some of people around him that *say* they understand, don't actually understand at all, and further, probably don't really honestly want to be around him. Again, this should not come as a shock to him. Lastly, this whole thing started off with a joke about pay scales in India, so why don't you go review who the truly fucked up people are. It certainly isn't me. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: First, I didn't start this line of discussion, Andy did. Why does that matter? In this discussion you brought the subject up, but again, why does that matter? "He did it first" was not a valid excuse in the playground, and is not a valid excuse in the eyes of the law, your god, or your own morals, and it is not one here. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I'm just giving him (evidently) new information that some of people around him that *say* they understand, don't actually understand at all, and further, probably don't really honestly want to be around him. Again, this should not come as a shock to him. Oh dear John, I thought we'd got over this the forth or fifth time you said that. :( I don't think anybody but people with such a condition can understand what Anna has done -- I don't, it scares the hell out of me thinking about what it means. However the difference which you have clearly missed in the year or so now no-one has rallied behind your views on this subject is that people understand why. If you are not happy with your life and you have the power to change that then can you honestly tell me you would not? The people who can see that difference are the people who support Anna, because technicalities aside she has ultimately done what the vast majority of us have wanted to but never managed - she's got up off her arse and bothered herself to give a damn, rather than sit about and whine and bitch all day. A subtlety I am not surprised is lost on you John, given what you have said over the years about your own life and the way you deal with your own problems both in your real and online lives. I almost used the phrase "what Andy did to become Anna" just now, but that would have been incorrect as Andy didn't do anything to become Anna, Anna has always been Anna. That is what scares the hell out of you (and as I have said, scares myself too). The reason it really scares people is because all of us have experienced something at some time in our lives that has made us feel uncomfortable, and it is frightening to draw comparisons - no matter how vague or unrelated they may be - to Anna or others. All forms of racism, homophobia, and other such afflictions of society come from that fear of oneself and the inherent weakness of our characters. To discriminate on fear you need to have an experience or belief yourself that you are afraid of; that is simply the way th
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You know I normally would not care too much about this kind of thing. But I had to click the Next button about 10 times just to get past that frikkin Thread Of Infinity on the Lounge the other day. And when you have a dial-up connection that is not fun. Apart from that, like you said, ignore the damned issue.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
If you don't want to click "Next" ten times, increase the number of messages from 10 to 50. Then, you would only have to click "Next" three times. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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If you don't want to click "Next" ten times, increase the number of messages from 10 to 50. Then, you would only have to click "Next" three times. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
Thanks John "FAQ" Simmons. ;) Of course I was exagerating, I must have clicked 3 times (on 50 messages a page) for that thread. That is one heckava thread, you must be proud :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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Thanks John "FAQ" Simmons. ;) Of course I was exagerating, I must have clicked 3 times (on 50 messages a page) for that thread. That is one heckava thread, you must be proud :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
Truthfully, I wasn't working to get it to be the longest thread. :) And I've told you a million times - never exagerate. :) ------------------------------ Additional post-dot disclaimer: It is now perfectly fine for all of the purile nose-picking post voters to vote this post down to whatever level you see fit. I'm happy to provide you with some measure of entertainment, and I hope being able to post-vote on yet another of my messages completes your day, but remember, it also means I've done something that you appreciate, so, have at it. ------------------------------ ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Okay, we are in some sort of agreement. I guess the "C# India post" in the lounge was too much for John to resist. :-) Jason Henderson wrote: He then turned around and attempted to insult me. That is normal :-) the mere fact that John has bothered to insult you is an honor. Many people visit CP and miss out on being insulted by him. Jason Henderson wrote: Childish, vindictive behavior is not charming, IMO, To me it's just "text" and to read, real emotions and sentiment into CP forum messages, can lead people into delusional states. Sarcasm, criticisms , rhetoric and cynicism etc don't translate well. Jason Henderson wrote: BTW, Chris chastised him just a couple of days ago in the Lounge. Probably with good reason once again, although Chris seems to think he owns CP now, which is a bit of a worry. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
Colin Davies wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: BTW, Chris chastised him just a couple of days ago in the Lounge. Probably with good reason once again, although Chris seems to think he owns CP now, which is a bit of a worry. He "chastised" me for saying "fuck", and he also went on to say that I could insult anyone I wanted. However, and I'd like to make this perfectly clear, anyone that came away insulted did so of their own accord, because I never overtly attacked any part of anyone's religion or belief system (out of fear, anger, hatred, or any other stupid little label you'd like to place on it). Like I've said so many times before, if they can't take a joke, that's honestly not my problem. So, I give a heartfelt and hefty "neener-neener-neener" to those who deserve it (whether they think they do or not), and I am confident that being the children they are, they'll understand the meaning. :) ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Colin Davies wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: BTW, Chris chastised him just a couple of days ago in the Lounge. Probably with good reason once again, although Chris seems to think he owns CP now, which is a bit of a worry. He "chastised" me for saying "fuck", and he also went on to say that I could insult anyone I wanted. However, and I'd like to make this perfectly clear, anyone that came away insulted did so of their own accord, because I never overtly attacked any part of anyone's religion or belief system (out of fear, anger, hatred, or any other stupid little label you'd like to place on it). Like I've said so many times before, if they can't take a joke, that's honestly not my problem. So, I give a heartfelt and hefty "neener-neener-neener" to those who deserve it (whether they think they do or not), and I am confident that being the children they are, they'll understand the meaning. :) ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: He "chastised" me for saying "fuck", I think thats fair enough, I'm know you have the ability to insult anyone without using any of the "censored" type words. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Like I've said so many times before, if they can't take a joke, that's honestly not my problem. Yeah, I must agree with that. To me its all just text. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I'd rather be propositioned by Sergio than insulted by Simmons Well, the first thing just ain't gonna happen unless Sergio is gay anyway, and since you keep pushing on the subject, lets go with the second thing. I do have a question that someone at work posed (oh yeah, we have four other programmers who are registered on CodeProject, and all of them think you look like a guy in drag, too): Before your loosing battle with a scalpel, did you consider yourself "gay" or "straight"? And what about after the operation? If you were straight before, and now that you're a "girl", doesn't that make you gay? If you were gay before, and now that you're a "girl", doesn't that make you - um - gay? The mind certainly boggles... ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John, I don't think you are now asking this out of curiosity. Seriously. Have you ever bothered to read up on human sexuality conditions and the theories behind their existances. (And I don't mean the simple Gay / Lesbian stuff)? Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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John, I don't think you are now asking this out of curiosity. Seriously. Have you ever bothered to read up on human sexuality conditions and the theories behind their existances. (And I don't mean the simple Gay / Lesbian stuff)? Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
It was a rhetorical question. No. I'm confident in my own status, and feel no need to read up on anyone else's. Further, I feel that "reading up" on it only lends credence to the individual's desire to accomplish whatever agenda he/she has in mind. In my humble opinion, all that psycho-babble is just that - babble. I'm neither qualified nor interested in giving someone a warm-n-fuzzy feeling over their chosen dementia, real or fabricated. Once again, I didn't start this particular sub-thread, and I'm perfectly happy to leave it right where it is, but if poked or prodded, an approriate response should be expected. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
