CPP Update
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I fully agree here, Jason.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma GandhiIt's a shame this didn't come up before I submitted about 8 hours of work. X| Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
It's a shame this didn't come up before I submitted about 8 hours of work. X| Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"Sorry. What I say then is: Let's just see what your thing is like, and if it's as good or better, we'll keep it; if not, back to Jason's.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi -
Jason Henderson wrote: But its not your own article Marc. True, you are the project lead, but you're not the whole project. This is a community thing so I want to do it the right way. If I do end up posting the articles, you will of course have full control afterward and my name could even be removed. So let's not split up just yet, not until I hear from Chris or decide to just do it my own way. Can you see where I'm coming from with this? Why I would want some standardized layout? Well, personally I think you're making too much of the standardization thing in this case. Part of the project should also be that each PL can explore a format that works well for his/her project. Standards are good, but personality and creativity are better, in some cases, and I think this is one of them. The fact that my name is on the article as the author I think is appropriate as I'm the project lead. However, if that really bothers you, why not create a unique CP2-style user for each project and use that as the "author". The username and password could be restricted to the PL's or could be given out to select contributors/managers so that they can modify things themselves. As far as I'm concerned, the abstract IS my own work at this point, and therefore should have my name as the author. Like you said, that could change later. If someone else writes the design document, I feel that they should be the author. Oddly, I feel rather strongly about this. I don't feel it is appropriate for someone else's name to be on the: Article content copyright X, 2003 everything else Copyright © CodeProject, 1999-2003. copyright notice when I'm the one who has taken the time to do the surveys, researched the web, written the text and drawn the cute little pictures. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"What would you think of this scenario: 1) PLs setup their article for the abstract and take requests to join on that message board. Kind of like we did here. 2) When you feel you have enough members, setup a design article to discuss ideas more fully. 3) When the design is complete, setup your project mgmt page and give code assignments to the team. 4) Then setup the source mgmt project. 5) Then the diary. Are there any changes you want to make? The only real standard I want to adhere to is the layout of the pages. We should have links to other pages at the top and basically the same info displayed for all projects. We could eliminate the source mgmt page and integrate it with the project mgmt page. Also, we could integrate the diary with the design page or leave out the diary all together.
Whatever you do, I want the following things to appear somewhere in the project articles: your abstract, a design doc, milestones/goals for the project, team members, coding assignments, source code and screen shots/conceptual art when available.Marc Clifton wrote: The fact that my name is on the article as the author I think is appropriate as I'm the project lead. However, if that really bothers you, why not create a unique CP2-style user for each project and use that as the "author". The username and password could be restricted to the PL's or could be given out to select contributors/managers so that they can modify things themselves. Your name being on the project doesn't bother me, but we should be working as a group on these things and I don't want anyone's ego getting in the way (especially mine). I just want to be fair to everyone AND give the project leaders as much flexibility as they need. If you feel like a CP2SF user would be convenient for you then set one up for the other project pages. The abstract page shoule be yours alone. I feel like I'm rambling so I'll let you respond.Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Sorry. What I say then is: Let's just see what your thing is like, and if it's as good or better, we'll keep it; if not, back to Jason's.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma GandhiNo, the standard thing isn't what's got me on my high horse, it's the article authoring thing. I'm more than happy to compromise on standards. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
No, the standard thing isn't what's got me on my high horse, it's the article authoring thing. I'm more than happy to compromise on standards. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
What would you think of this scenario: 1) PLs setup their article for the abstract and take requests to join on that message board. Kind of like we did here. 2) When you feel you have enough members, setup a design article to discuss ideas more fully. 3) When the design is complete, setup your project mgmt page and give code assignments to the team. 4) Then setup the source mgmt project. 5) Then the diary. Are there any changes you want to make? The only real standard I want to adhere to is the layout of the pages. We should have links to other pages at the top and basically the same info displayed for all projects. We could eliminate the source mgmt page and integrate it with the project mgmt page. Also, we could integrate the diary with the design page or leave out the diary all together.
Whatever you do, I want the following things to appear somewhere in the project articles: your abstract, a design doc, milestones/goals for the project, team members, coding assignments, source code and screen shots/conceptual art when available.Marc Clifton wrote: The fact that my name is on the article as the author I think is appropriate as I'm the project lead. However, if that really bothers you, why not create a unique CP2-style user for each project and use that as the "author". The username and password could be restricted to the PL's or could be given out to select contributors/managers so that they can modify things themselves. Your name being on the project doesn't bother me, but we should be working as a group on these things and I don't want anyone's ego getting in the way (especially mine). I just want to be fair to everyone AND give the project leaders as much flexibility as they need. If you feel like a CP2SF user would be convenient for you then set one up for the other project pages. The abstract page shoule be yours alone. I feel like I'm rambling so I'll let you respond.Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
This sound more like it - creativity governed by standards. I really liked your article guidelines, so I'm glad they're staying.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi -
It's a shame this didn't come up before I submitted about 8 hours of work. X| Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"I'm not trying to steal your thunder or take credit for your work. I just want to maintain a standard layout across all of the projects. You can control the rest of the content and your team. I think we can compromise on this.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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What would you think of this scenario: 1) PLs setup their article for the abstract and take requests to join on that message board. Kind of like we did here. 2) When you feel you have enough members, setup a design article to discuss ideas more fully. 3) When the design is complete, setup your project mgmt page and give code assignments to the team. 4) Then setup the source mgmt project. 5) Then the diary. Are there any changes you want to make? The only real standard I want to adhere to is the layout of the pages. We should have links to other pages at the top and basically the same info displayed for all projects. We could eliminate the source mgmt page and integrate it with the project mgmt page. Also, we could integrate the diary with the design page or leave out the diary all together.
Whatever you do, I want the following things to appear somewhere in the project articles: your abstract, a design doc, milestones/goals for the project, team members, coding assignments, source code and screen shots/conceptual art when available.Marc Clifton wrote: The fact that my name is on the article as the author I think is appropriate as I'm the project lead. However, if that really bothers you, why not create a unique CP2-style user for each project and use that as the "author". The username and password could be restricted to the PL's or could be given out to select contributors/managers so that they can modify things themselves. Your name being on the project doesn't bother me, but we should be working as a group on these things and I don't want anyone's ego getting in the way (especially mine). I just want to be fair to everyone AND give the project leaders as much flexibility as they need. If you feel like a CP2SF user would be convenient for you then set one up for the other project pages. The abstract page shoule be yours alone. I feel like I'm rambling so I'll let you respond.Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Jason Henderson wrote: The only real standard I want to adhere to is the layout of the pages. We should have links to other pages at the top and basically the same info displayed for all projects. That sounds great. The article breakout sounds really good too. I really like the diary idea, maybe it would fit best in the "project mgmt" page though. And it does seem simpler to integrate the project management and source management together. Jason Henderson wrote: Whatever you do, I want the following things to appear somewhere in the project articles: your abstract, a design doc, milestones/goals for the project, team members, coding assignments, source code and screen shots/conceptual art when available. Absolutely. Jason Henderson wrote: I don't want anyone's ego Or mine! But that's the nature of these things too. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
No, the standard thing isn't what's got me on my high horse, it's the article authoring thing. I'm more than happy to compromise on standards. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"Hmmm, I just tried to edit one of my own unedited articles, and I can change the Author ID(s)... Why don't you just let jason make the articles with both him and you as authors, then you can just remove him. This should keep everyone happy! - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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I'm not trying to steal your thunder or take credit for your work. I just want to maintain a standard layout across all of the projects. You can control the rest of the content and your team. I think we can compromise on this.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Jason Henderson wrote: I think we can compromise on this. Definitely. I hope I didn't come across as too hard-assed. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
I'm not trying to steal your thunder or take credit for your work. I just want to maintain a standard layout across all of the projects. You can control the rest of the content and your team. I think we can compromise on this.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
See my reply to Marc ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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No, the standard thing isn't what's got me on my high horse, it's the article authoring thing. I'm more than happy to compromise on standards. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"I think we're arguing over different things. Would you like me to whip out a layout for each page and send it to you? Then you could post the articles yourself. Marc, I do want to remain involved in this sort of thing so I will most likely be critiquing the articles to make sure they're up to snuff (standard layout and project info only). Do you have a problem with this? Of course all of my suggestions would be via email and not on a message board.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Hmmm, I just tried to edit one of my own unedited articles, and I can change the Author ID(s)... Why don't you just let jason make the articles with both him and you as authors, then you can just remove him. This should keep everyone happy! - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
Perhaps I didn't delve deeply enough into the wizard. I didn't see where IDs could be edited.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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I think we're arguing over different things. Would you like me to whip out a layout for each page and send it to you? Then you could post the articles yourself. Marc, I do want to remain involved in this sort of thing so I will most likely be critiquing the articles to make sure they're up to snuff (standard layout and project info only). Do you have a problem with this? Of course all of my suggestions would be via email and not on a message board.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Jason Henderson wrote: I do want to remain involved in this sort of thing so I will most likely be critiquing the articles to make sure they're up to snuff No, I definitely don't have a problem with that. In fact, I think it would be a good thing! Jason Henderson wrote: Would you like me to whip out a layout for each page and send it to you? At this point it's probably not necessary. It would be nice to delegate some of this work, so I'm hoping I don't have to write all the project article pieces. For example, it would be nice if someone else can step forward with the design document. A sneak peek is of course welcome, but besides the Abstract, I don't think it's necessary. Jason Henderson wrote: Of course all of my suggestions would be via email and not on a message board. :laugh: That got me to chuckle. Whew! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
Jason Henderson wrote: I do want to remain involved in this sort of thing so I will most likely be critiquing the articles to make sure they're up to snuff No, I definitely don't have a problem with that. In fact, I think it would be a good thing! Jason Henderson wrote: Would you like me to whip out a layout for each page and send it to you? At this point it's probably not necessary. It would be nice to delegate some of this work, so I'm hoping I don't have to write all the project article pieces. For example, it would be nice if someone else can step forward with the design document. A sneak peek is of course welcome, but besides the Abstract, I don't think it's necessary. Jason Henderson wrote: Of course all of my suggestions would be via email and not on a message board. :laugh: That got me to chuckle. Whew! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"Marc Clifton wrote: It would be nice to delegate some of this work, so I'm hoping I don't have to write all the project article pieces. For example, it would be nice if someone else can step forward with the design document. Give me an idea of what you're looking for, and maybe I'll take a stab at it. :)
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi -
Ok, I've got abstracts from all PLs, but what are the next steps? I'm currently waiting on a reply from Chris M. about how he wants us to proceed. Either with the current article format using 5 separate articles or with a new projects format we've talked about a little. If I don't hear from him soon, I'll go ahead and take the initiative. So, should I create the articles for you (since I know what I have in mind) putting the project leaders on as authors with me, or should I let the leaders do it all (thme not knowing what I have in mind yet)? Another thing that sort of bothers me about using the current article format is that you can't add or remove authors from a project. I was hoping to be able to add the team members to the project as they sign up, but we may have to do things differently. -- I want a Main Page with general info and general comments. -- I also want a Project management page where people can ask to join the team, and where team assignments would be posted. -- A Source Management page would be used to maintain the source code, recent demo apps, latest screen shots, and the message area could be used for QA testing. -- I think a Design page is necessary to display the design document and latest documentation for demo apps, and the message area can be used for design discussion. -- Finally, a Diary page would be nice for basic commentary on the process and for open discussions. It may not be a great idea to have every team member be an author, and just acknowledge them in the articles. A disgruntled person may attemt to sabotage things. But it may be nice for the PLs to let a designated "manager" take care of some of the pages. I would appreciate any ideas you may have.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I think we are going to need some kind of Defect Tracking System (until our own is finished ;) ) Do you think chris will host a freeware system for us? And dont tell me that we can do this in a forum, it is just not gonna work. What about source control, are we going to do that manually? - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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I think we are going to need some kind of Defect Tracking System (until our own is finished ;) ) Do you think chris will host a freeware system for us? And dont tell me that we can do this in a forum, it is just not gonna work. What about source control, are we going to do that manually? - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
How do you propose we handle defect tracking? Is there a free defect tracker on the web we could use? For SC, I could see one person (source manager) handling this stuff if we have no other option. What do you suggest?
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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How do you propose we handle defect tracking? Is there a free defect tracker on the web we could use? For SC, I could see one person (source manager) handling this stuff if we have no other option. What do you suggest?
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Jason Henderson wrote: Is there a free defect tracker on the web we could use? http://try.fogbugz.com/[^] http://www.bugzilla.org/[^] Disclaimer: i haven't used either of these.
Shog9
So much he don't understand, Just might never make it to a man...
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Jason Henderson wrote: So, should I create the articles for you (since I know what I have in mind) putting the project leaders on as authors with me, or should I let the leaders do it all (thme not knowing what I have in mind yet)? I would prefer to create the articles myself. I can always reformat them when it gets conveyed as to what you have in mind. Jason Henderson wrote: ...you can't add or remove authors from a project. I was hoping to be able to add the team members to the project as they sign up, but we may have to do things differently I would much rather prefer to have a managed article, namely, I don't want people to ad-hoc modify the article. The point of being project lead is to maintain some coherence to things. If everyone's editing the doc, chaos will result. Jason Henderson wrote: -- I want a Main Page with general info and general comments. -- I also want a Project management page where people can ask to join the team, and where team assignments would be posted. -- A Source Management page would be used to maintain the source code, recent demo apps, latest screen shots, and the message area could be used for QA testing. -- I think a Design page is necessary to display the design document and latest documentation for demo apps, and the message area can be used for design discussion. -- Finally, a Diary page would be nice for basic commentary on the process and for open discussions. What you need is a web page, or the projects set up through SourceForge or some other system. Doing this with CP is possible, but not as convenient. Of course, I'll need to evaluate some of these other project hosting sites. The only one I've worked with is SourceForge. Jason Henderson wrote: just acknowledge them in the articles Preferable, from my point of view. Jason Henderson wrote: But it may be nice for the PLs to let a designated "manager" take care of some of the pages. Quite true. But that can be handled by giving the person the password for editing the articles, can it not? In conclusion, I'd say, let's post the abstracts and see what interest develops. If some PL's want you to post them, fine, but I would much rather prefer to post my own articles at this point. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity meansJust wanted to chip in that I think we should keep this all on CP and not move it over to SourceForge or any other project tool.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer