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  4. Agile is Killing Development From the Inside

Agile is Killing Development From the Inside

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Insider News
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  • L lmoelleb

    Why are these problems related to agile?

    realJSOPR Offline
    realJSOPR Offline
    realJSOP
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    FWIW, I was working after hours and on weekends to take care of some of the technical debt "under the radar", but they put a stop to that by turning off the entire dev environment on weekends/holidays to save money, and for devs that are on leave for more than one day at a time, they turn off their dev boxes - again, to save money. If they're so damn worried about money, you'd think they would be worried about the technical debt.

    ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

    R 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • realJSOPR realJSOP

      Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

      ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
      -----
      You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
      -----
      When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

      P Offline
      P Offline
      PIEBALDconsult
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      Yes indeed. But "Agile" is a broad term, not a well-defined strategy. And most managers don't realize that -- because most bloggers don't write that. Bloggers (bloggarts?) only reiterate that Agile is the Holy Grail and things domino inevitably from there. I still can't convince my boss that we've been Agile from the start and that trying to use Scrum would slow us down. I have never been on a project which wasn't already Agile and which would have benefited from using Scrum.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • realJSOPR realJSOP

        lmoelleb wrote:

        This is just standard incompetence you describe...you clearly have some people in positions they should not be in

        I don't know if you're aware, but I work as a government contractor, so... yeah. :/

        ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
        -----
        You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
        -----
        When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

        L Offline
        L Offline
        lmoelleb
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        Oh sorry, then it is indeed a requirement to have incompetence in key positions. In the private sector it can be avoided.... now and then. :)

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • realJSOPR realJSOP

          FWIW, I was working after hours and on weekends to take care of some of the technical debt "under the radar", but they put a stop to that by turning off the entire dev environment on weekends/holidays to save money, and for devs that are on leave for more than one day at a time, they turn off their dev boxes - again, to save money. If they're so damn worried about money, you'd think they would be worried about the technical debt.

          ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
          -----
          You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
          -----
          When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

          R Offline
          R Offline
          rnbergren
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          They turn off machines on nights and weekends to save what $2. Heck they lost more time/money trying to figure out where to save money than actual money they freakin saved? What the what!

          To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • realJSOPR realJSOP

            Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

            ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
            -----
            You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
            -----
            When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Marc Clifton
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            The Agile Manifesto should also include "Quality Determines Profit" ;P

            Latest Article:
            Create a Digital Ocean Droplet for .NET Core Web API with a real SSL Certificate on a Domain

            L 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • realJSOPR realJSOP

              Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

              ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
              -----
              You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
              -----
              When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

              K Offline
              K Offline
              Kent Sharkey
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              Thanks for posting this. I was getting bored reading it yesterday. I'm glad someone else got through it to decide it was worthy. :thumbsup:

              TTFN - Kent

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • realJSOPR realJSOP

                Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

                ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                -----
                You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                -----
                When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                0 Offline
                0 Offline
                0x01AA
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                Before one can do a sprint, one should have an raw/rough overview of the route. Only my two cents.

                P RaviBeeR 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • 0 0x01AA

                  Before one can do a sprint, one should have an raw/rough overview of the route. Only my two cents.

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  PIEBALDconsult
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  Never begin a sprint when hurdles are in place.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Marc Clifton

                    The Agile Manifesto should also include "Quality Determines Profit" ;P

                    Latest Article:
                    Create a Digital Ocean Droplet for .NET Core Web API with a real SSL Certificate on a Domain

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    lmoelleb
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    It does include "Working software" :)

                    realJSOPR 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • L lmoelleb

                      It does include "Working software" :)

                      realJSOPR Offline
                      realJSOPR Offline
                      realJSOP
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      "Working" software doesn't necessarily translate to "quality" software, or even "usable" software. In point of fact, it almost never translates to those things.

                      ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                      -----
                      You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                      -----
                      When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                      L 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • realJSOPR realJSOP

                        "Working" software doesn't necessarily translate to "quality" software, or even "usable" software. In point of fact, it almost never translates to those things.

                        ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                        -----
                        You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                        -----
                        When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                        L Offline
                        L Offline
                        lmoelleb
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        In my book it does. If the software does not do what the customer needs, then it is not working. Luckily our product owner does get dragged into technical troubleshoot sessions now and then. That does give him a better insight into why these things needs to be prioritized. And for any new development it is the developer working on the task that says it is done - not the product owner. So developers can guard the quality level. Addition: And it is not the product owner that decides what refactoring is needed to add a feature as he does not have the technical knowledge. Sure he can skip the feature if our estimates including the necessary refactoring makes it too expensive. But overall I have not been in a "war" with a product owner except once (15+ years ago now). He ran to a director, the director came to me - and then I explained software development procedures to him for half an hour. Did not go down well but not much he could say as I was right :) Took him a year or two to admit it directly.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • realJSOPR realJSOP

                          Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

                          ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                          -----
                          You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                          -----
                          When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                          raddevusR Offline
                          raddevusR Offline
                          raddevus
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #22

                          After reading that article -- and I read the entire thing -- my thought is: "It is no wonder Agile is garbage. It cannot even create World Peace!" :rolleyes: I think everyone is reading far more into Agile than was originally intended. The corruption that has occurred to the original heart of Agile (Agile's 12 principles) is beyond discussion. The article has, however, convinced me that all Software Development Methodologies are garbage. All! And that makes sense, because it was created by humans. :sigh:

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • realJSOPR realJSOP

                            Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

                            ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                            -----
                            You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                            -----
                            When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                            O Offline
                            O Offline
                            obermd
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #23

                            I stopped reading right after the author identified the root problem, which is that management can't resist consulticks (https://dilbert.com/search\_results?terms=Consultick) who have enabled management to corrupt the overall Agile concept.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • L lmoelleb

                              What is better?

                              Mike HankeyM Offline
                              Mike HankeyM Offline
                              Mike Hankey
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #24

                              How about ponying up for a talented crew where every member is talented at a piece of the project. Managements job is then; To make sure communications between teem members is maximized. Provide the necessary resources to do the job. Make sure the goals are clearly defined. Provide plenty of coffee. And stay the hell out of the way!

                              The less you need, the more you have. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally. JaxCoder.com

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • 0 0x01AA

                                Before one can do a sprint, one should have an raw/rough overview of the route. Only my two cents.

                                RaviBeeR Offline
                                RaviBeeR Offline
                                RaviBee
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #25

                                0x01AA wrote:

                                one should have an raw/rough overview of the route.

                                I'm afraid I have to disagree.  IMHO before starting work on a sprint's committed backlog items, one should have a damn good idea of the route (i.e. the deliverables).  An important aspect of the agile process (whether it be applied to manufacturing or software development) is that the deliverables for a sprint be well articulated and small - i.e. small enough so that there's a high probability of achieving the sprint's goals.  Agile novices often confuse small specifications with vague specifications. Also, you can't apply agile development to only a tiny part of the company (e.g. a development team) and hope that productivity will somehow magically improve.  Where I work, product owners, BAs, QA (manual and test automation), design and documentation are involved in our agile process (along with devs) from the get go.  We've actually seen improvements (requiring explicit specification of feature behaviors, fewer bugs, easier development and easier testing) in our dev cycles thanks to agile.  And the tools we use aren't anything special.  We just (ruthlessly) enforce good behavior: requirements (authored by product) are mostly in Gherkin and we have a clearly documented and realistic definition of done (which includes unit tests). I may be the exception to the rule but I :love: where I work.  I think a lot of this has to with the fact that our engineering management all started out as devs (decades ago) and know the drill.  #JustSayNoToBS  :) /ravi

                                My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com

                                realJSOPR 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • RaviBeeR RaviBee

                                  0x01AA wrote:

                                  one should have an raw/rough overview of the route.

                                  I'm afraid I have to disagree.  IMHO before starting work on a sprint's committed backlog items, one should have a damn good idea of the route (i.e. the deliverables).  An important aspect of the agile process (whether it be applied to manufacturing or software development) is that the deliverables for a sprint be well articulated and small - i.e. small enough so that there's a high probability of achieving the sprint's goals.  Agile novices often confuse small specifications with vague specifications. Also, you can't apply agile development to only a tiny part of the company (e.g. a development team) and hope that productivity will somehow magically improve.  Where I work, product owners, BAs, QA (manual and test automation), design and documentation are involved in our agile process (along with devs) from the get go.  We've actually seen improvements (requiring explicit specification of feature behaviors, fewer bugs, easier development and easier testing) in our dev cycles thanks to agile.  And the tools we use aren't anything special.  We just (ruthlessly) enforce good behavior: requirements (authored by product) are mostly in Gherkin and we have a clearly documented and realistic definition of done (which includes unit tests). I may be the exception to the rule but I :love: where I work.  I think a lot of this has to with the fact that our engineering management all started out as devs (decades ago) and know the drill.  #JustSayNoToBS  :) /ravi

                                  My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com

                                  realJSOPR Offline
                                  realJSOPR Offline
                                  realJSOP
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #26

                                  We *constantly* redefine "done". Developers, testers and the customer all have different definitions. Then someone came up with "done done", which is "f*ckin stupid". It doesn't help that the software we use doesn't really fit scrum/agile very well, nor does it fit our bastardized version of scrum/agile. Our con-bon board has something like 15 states.

                                  ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                  -----
                                  You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                  -----
                                  When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • realJSOPR realJSOP

                                    Agile and the Long Crisis of Software[^] I've always said agile isn't a way to manage development - it's a way to manage developers. It's about the corporate bottom line, not the quality of the software.

                                    ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                    -----
                                    You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                    -----
                                    When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

                                    S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Slacker007
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #27

                                    As the great J.R.R. Tolkien once wrote: "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made." Management can't create anything new, it can only corrupt and ruin what once was good.

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