New Kind of Application for me (centralized/cloud). Looking for learning resources.
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pr1mem0ver wrote:
development is going to require a significant amount of collaboration and work by different users (members of a team), potentially all at once. All data needs to stored in one place. In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial.
How would you motivate anyone else to participate in such a vague plan ?
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
It either has to be something that really appeals to someone's altruism, or it has to be financial.
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I am creating a new kind of "development" platform that uses a custom data model (custom classes etc...). The thing is that the development is going to require a significant amount of collaboration and work by different users (members of a team), potentially all at once. All data needs to stored in one place. In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial. A centralized system harvests tasks (based on information gathered) from the internet and those tasks get distributed among specialists to look at the data, standardize it, format it, build upon it, and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak. I am probably looking at a client-server model but since this approach to data storage, programming, and most importantly, data sharing is entirely new to me, I am not certain which model to use and not sure where to look to find information to teach me how to build such an application/data model. Internet searches so far get too broad of results that aren't helpful (such as how to use and distribute a database or information on data services). Any pointers to get me started? I am also looking for a secure place/server to store the data for people on the team to access. It doesn't need to be incredibly big. Frankly Google Drive is plenty of space. Not sure how I would leverage that though (through the software).
It sounds very much like you're trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN, like Subversion (open source). Why reinvent the wheel when you can use a system that's already made to do the job?
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Money? :-D
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
reads like recruitment for a no-$ build a field of dreams to me.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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I am creating a new kind of "development" platform that uses a custom data model (custom classes etc...). The thing is that the development is going to require a significant amount of collaboration and work by different users (members of a team), potentially all at once. All data needs to stored in one place. In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial. A centralized system harvests tasks (based on information gathered) from the internet and those tasks get distributed among specialists to look at the data, standardize it, format it, build upon it, and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak. I am probably looking at a client-server model but since this approach to data storage, programming, and most importantly, data sharing is entirely new to me, I am not certain which model to use and not sure where to look to find information to teach me how to build such an application/data model. Internet searches so far get too broad of results that aren't helpful (such as how to use and distribute a database or information on data services). Any pointers to get me started? I am also looking for a secure place/server to store the data for people on the team to access. It doesn't need to be incredibly big. Frankly Google Drive is plenty of space. Not sure how I would leverage that though (through the software).
Sounds like Sharepoint Online. For $5 per month per user.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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How do you decide whether the data can be merged? Can multiple people be touching the same data at the same time?
It is merged after it is reviewed. Once I gain confidence that a team member is doing what I need them to, following the vision I have, they would have rights to merge it themselves. "Can multiple people be touching the same data at the same time?" Same target/source files... yes. Same actual data, no (though theoretically it could happen... would probably have to write checks/locks into the code). The approach I intend on taking is to hire different people with different strengths and backgrounds so each individual task would only be touched by one team member.
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pr1mem0ver wrote:
development is going to require a significant amount of collaboration and work by different users (members of a team), potentially all at once. All data needs to stored in one place. In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial.
How would you motivate anyone else to participate in such a vague plan ?
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
LOL. I am not this vague when talking to people about the actual project. I already have two other people who seem rather interested in working on it and have asked me to let them know when I am ready to go. I am being vague here because most details aren't really necessary to share and because the project (end result) will be patented. I can't exactly discuss specific details on a public forum if I want to file for a patent. Whatever details people need to be shared I will share if asked for (and don't require me to be too explicit in detail).
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reads like recruitment for a no-$ build a field of dreams to me.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
Wow... you guys make all kinds of incorrect assumptions and right now I am so angry that I may just quit this forum myself after being a member for years. I have NEVER been treated this way here before. No need to kick me off. This is a legitimate question. I only use this forum when I need help. I am programming it myself if I can. I don't want help with the actual programming if I can avoid it so I am not looking for programmers. You people don't even have the expertise I am looking for so bug off. Otherwise answer my question. I just need some advice.
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LOL. I am not this vague when talking to people about the actual project. I already have two other people who seem rather interested in working on it and have asked me to let them know when I am ready to go. I am being vague here because most details aren't really necessary to share and because the project (end result) will be patented. I can't exactly discuss specific details on a public forum if I want to file for a patent. Whatever details people need to be shared I will share if asked for (and don't require me to be too explicit in detail).
pr1mem0ver wrote:
I am being vague here because most details aren't really necessary to share and because the project (end result) will be patented.
You're getting assumptions because of the description you already gave and the lack of detail on it. If you're not getting the answers you want, that's on you for being so vague. Remember this, and it applies to all forums, not just CP. The quality of the answers you get is directly dictated by the quality of the questions you ask.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
pr1mem0ver wrote:
I am being vague here because most details aren't really necessary to share and because the project (end result) will be patented.
You're getting assumptions because of the description you already gave and the lack of detail on it. If you're not getting the answers you want, that's on you for being so vague. Remember this, and it applies to all forums, not just CP. The quality of the answers you get is directly dictated by the quality of the questions you ask.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakI asked a single, non-specific question. "Any pointers on where to get started?" Yes. I know I was "vague" in the details. I was that way on purpose given the nature of the project. However, I feel I gave enough to answer the question by giving a basic run-down of the kind of application it was. I ask and people just assume I am recruiter misusing the forum. I am also not asking a detailed question, nor am I looking for a detailed answer (which I realize is probably not in line with the default around here). Just pointers; a basic idea for me to look up. I don't need specifics. I can find them myself. I even gave an example in the "details" of the kind of answer I was looking for: "client-server." If people focused on the question as is rather than "details" there would be fewer conflicts and frustrations. If one needs specifics to answer the question, then ask. It's that simple. The first person to answer (Pete) asked a legitimate question looking for details and I answered him with the details he needed. No problems on either side. He also didn't assume a negative spin, even in his later comment in which he suggested I was either altruistic or motivated by money.
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Wow... you guys make all kinds of incorrect assumptions and right now I am so angry that I may just quit this forum myself after being a member for years. I have NEVER been treated this way here before. No need to kick me off. This is a legitimate question. I only use this forum when I need help. I am programming it myself if I can. I don't want help with the actual programming if I can avoid it so I am not looking for programmers. You people don't even have the expertise I am looking for so bug off. Otherwise answer my question. I just need some advice.
pr1mem0ver wrote:
I am so angry that I may just quit this forum ... You people don't even have the expertise I am looking for so bug off
Thanks for sharing how you really feel. And, what a nice surprise to know you plan on patenting whatever you are talking about.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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It sounds very much like you're trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN, like Subversion (open source). Why reinvent the wheel when you can use a system that's already made to do the job?
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
It sounds very much like you're trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN, like Subversion (open source). Why reinvent the wheel when you can use a system that's already made to do the job?
Because once again you are making erroneous assumptions. You aren't even in the correct industry. How do you get that out of this (from my original post)?
In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial. A centralized system harvests tasks (based on information gathered) from the internet and those tasks get distributed among specialists to look at the data, standardize it, format it, build upon it, and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak.
Code management systems don't "harvest" data from the internet (at least not "en masse"... not at all as far as I am aware). Instead, people post "data" (code, feedback, comments, etc...) The closest thing (VERY superficial and still in a different ballpark altogether, though it is the same industry,) is iReady which you probably haven't even heard of. I am not in the coding industry. I am not a professional programmer (though I am capable enough). If all you are going to do is speculate about my purpose rather than help by answering my question original question "Any pointers to get me started?", then please stop posting. EDIT: Just as an FYI, the end game (public product) isn't even the software I am writing (project for which I am trying to find an approach for/asking about). The software/project I am currently doing is a development tool for the Team ONLY (and possibly for other "users" who eventually want to mod/contribute to the end product being created... the likes of which doesn't exist at all).
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pr1mem0ver wrote:
I am so angry that I may just quit this forum ... You people don't even have the expertise I am looking for so bug off
Thanks for sharing how you really feel. And, what a nice surprise to know you plan on patenting whatever you are talking about.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
LOL. IF I remain on this site, I will post the patent here when I get it. If I am able to finish the project, it will happen. I love how you all feel your experience in programming entitles you to points. I find it terribly ironic I can upvote my own comments. Honestly, I don't give a rats butt about my reputation here. I only come to help myself and others in repayment. It's really a shame that folks like you pick and choose to ruin it for other people. You guys continue to make erroneous assumptions about everything under the sun, talking about everything EXCEPT the answer to the question I asked. After this crap treatment I won't bother coming here again to ask questions. So rest easy and pat yourself on the back for making your point on a job well done. I also won't have anything nice to say about this forum anymore. I know you don't care but oh well... can't help that. I am an elementary school teacher for Pete's sake.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
It sounds very much like you're trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN, like Subversion (open source). Why reinvent the wheel when you can use a system that's already made to do the job?
Because once again you are making erroneous assumptions. You aren't even in the correct industry. How do you get that out of this (from my original post)?
In the end it would work somewhat similar to a code management system but it isn't code being developed and that comparison is somewhat superficial. A centralized system harvests tasks (based on information gathered) from the internet and those tasks get distributed among specialists to look at the data, standardize it, format it, build upon it, and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak.
Code management systems don't "harvest" data from the internet (at least not "en masse"... not at all as far as I am aware). Instead, people post "data" (code, feedback, comments, etc...) The closest thing (VERY superficial and still in a different ballpark altogether, though it is the same industry,) is iReady which you probably haven't even heard of. I am not in the coding industry. I am not a professional programmer (though I am capable enough). If all you are going to do is speculate about my purpose rather than help by answering my question original question "Any pointers to get me started?", then please stop posting. EDIT: Just as an FYI, the end game (public product) isn't even the software I am writing (project for which I am trying to find an approach for/asking about). The software/project I am currently doing is a development tool for the Team ONLY (and possibly for other "users" who eventually want to mod/contribute to the end product being created... the likes of which doesn't exist at all).
pr1mem0ver wrote:
How do you get that out of this (from my original post)?
Quite easily actually. It sounds very much like a source control system, especially when you got to the point where you said:
pr1mem0ver wrote:
and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak.
I'm not the only one who thought this either. I asked around the shop and everyone agreed with me. Like I said, Subversion is open source and if you had given this three second of thought, you could have said "Yeah, I'll look into it the source for it and see if that gives me any ideas." But, you do you...
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
pr1mem0ver wrote:
How do you get that out of this (from my original post)?
Quite easily actually. It sounds very much like a source control system, especially when you got to the point where you said:
pr1mem0ver wrote:
and submit it for integration into the main "fork"/trunk so to speak.
I'm not the only one who thought this either. I asked around the shop and everyone agreed with me. Like I said, Subversion is open source and if you had given this three second of thought, you could have said "Yeah, I'll look into it the source for it and see if that gives me any ideas." But, you do you...
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak1. You didn't answer my question... didn't even try. Instead you try to justify your lack of trying by appealing to obscure implications. 2. I explicitly stated in my original post (and quoted) that the resemblance is superficial. You made the choice to not believe me. 3. This is a C# forum. Subversion is written in C++. Which I can sort of follow... but with great difficulty when it comes to try and find a single feature in such a complex set of code. 4. You are focusing on your own approach to solving my problem rather than trusting me to know what I need. Much of the groundwork code for the application (including the data miner) has ALREADY been written and works reasonably well. I only need to know how to enable multiple users to manipulate data from files on a single source at once. I don't need a giant solution which is superficially related to solve a single problem. Especially when I am just asking about an approach. Maybe a different title to this issue would have worked better but I am only human (and not a professional programmer). EDIT: Someone who was helpful on another forum suggested that the approach may be similar to Subversion (he used Git as his example) even if the resemblance is superficial. Yet he still managed to focus on my question and actually partially answer it on the first try (still in confirming what he said) instead of wading through all this... uh... crap. That was all I needed. You could have at the very least, explained yourself. I only didn't "give it three seconds of thought" because I am not "trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN" as you and other people have assumed and from all appearances, that was the reasoning behind your suggestion.
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It either has to be something that really appeals to someone's altruism, or it has to be financial.
Actually both apply here. Honestly, I am having difficulty with the pricing model because yes... what I am building will provide a much needed resource in education and instructional design (both public and private) and I don't want people to have to pay significant sums of money for the "much needed" aspect of what I am building. At the same time, it would be nice to make some money because as a teacher I get paid relatively little.
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It is merged after it is reviewed. Once I gain confidence that a team member is doing what I need them to, following the vision I have, they would have rights to merge it themselves. "Can multiple people be touching the same data at the same time?" Same target/source files... yes. Same actual data, no (though theoretically it could happen... would probably have to write checks/locks into the code). The approach I intend on taking is to hire different people with different strengths and backgrounds so each individual task would only be touched by one team member.
To be honest, what you have described so far instantly led me to think of event sourcing. The idea behind this is that you don't change state, instead you save a new event everytime something changes. So, when you view the "thing", behind the scenes, every event is replayed to create the state as it currently is. When you accept the review, you could create a snapshot of the fully played event if you wanted to provide a "final state" for that particular item. You can find more information about this here[^].
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To be honest, what you have described so far instantly led me to think of event sourcing. The idea behind this is that you don't change state, instead you save a new event everytime something changes. So, when you view the "thing", behind the scenes, every event is replayed to create the state as it currently is. When you accept the review, you could create a snapshot of the fully played event if you wanted to provide a "final state" for that particular item. You can find more information about this here[^].
what a gem of a thought to sparkle in this strange thread ! thanks, Bill
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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1. You didn't answer my question... didn't even try. Instead you try to justify your lack of trying by appealing to obscure implications. 2. I explicitly stated in my original post (and quoted) that the resemblance is superficial. You made the choice to not believe me. 3. This is a C# forum. Subversion is written in C++. Which I can sort of follow... but with great difficulty when it comes to try and find a single feature in such a complex set of code. 4. You are focusing on your own approach to solving my problem rather than trusting me to know what I need. Much of the groundwork code for the application (including the data miner) has ALREADY been written and works reasonably well. I only need to know how to enable multiple users to manipulate data from files on a single source at once. I don't need a giant solution which is superficially related to solve a single problem. Especially when I am just asking about an approach. Maybe a different title to this issue would have worked better but I am only human (and not a professional programmer). EDIT: Someone who was helpful on another forum suggested that the approach may be similar to Subversion (he used Git as his example) even if the resemblance is superficial. Yet he still managed to focus on my question and actually partially answer it on the first try (still in confirming what he said) instead of wading through all this... uh... crap. That was all I needed. You could have at the very least, explained yourself. I only didn't "give it three seconds of thought" because I am not "trying to replicate Git/DevOps/or other SVN" as you and other people have assumed and from all appearances, that was the reasoning behind your suggestion.
You're fucking welcome.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak
