2 Weapons of Mass Destruction
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tnolley wrote: history will prove you wrong. You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards, who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? I'm not sure the answer is so clear. People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half. Nah, it is the ones who want to deal with the exterminators diplomatically who are the most dangerous. "The undergrowth was overgrown..."
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tnolley wrote: history will prove you wrong. You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards, who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? I'm not sure the answer is so clear. People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! That cuts both ways sport. Why is tnolley's opinion any less valid than yours? KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half. In my opinion those who lack certainty are completely without a moral compass to guide either their opinions or actions. Mike
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tnolley wrote: history will prove you wrong. You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards, who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? I'm not sure the answer is so clear. People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? You misspelled "Common Sense 101" KaЯl wrote: What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! I plan on being alive in a quarter of a century. Give me a call in 2028. Let's see if the Iraqis are better off for not having been slaughtered by the thousands by Saddam Hussein and his sons in the intervening years. For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. KaЯl wrote: who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? We are not letting North Korea do what they want. We just need our troops where they are in case we need them to go knock on Syria or Iran's doors. After we free up the troops in the newly liberated and peaceful Iraq we can deal with North Korea if we need to. We may not need to. If we can pinpoint their current nukes, we'll just blow them up and get China to stop feeding them. After the people in NK start starving, they'll overthrow that Stalinistic little fuck Kim Jong Il.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
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KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half. Nah, it is the ones who want to deal with the exterminators diplomatically who are the most dangerous. "The undergrowth was overgrown..."
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KaЯl wrote: What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! That cuts both ways sport. Why is tnolley's opinion any less valid than yours? KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half. In my opinion those who lack certainty are completely without a moral compass to guide either their opinions or actions. Mike
Mike Gaskey wrote: Why is tnolley's opinion any less valid than yours? I don't think I've said History will give me Justice. I can accept his/her opinion, but not such an argument. Mike Gaskey wrote: In my opinion those who lack certainty are completely without a moral compass to guide either their opinions or actions. Whatever the moral guides, I try not to forget that all is vanity. A rigidous moral may be as dangerous as no moral at all: the danger is in the extremes
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
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tnolley wrote: history will prove you wrong. You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards, who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? I'm not sure the answer is so clear. People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards I don't know but I would bet they will fare better than a leader who sold out the Iraqi people in the pursuit of oil contracts and trade with a tyrant. Where have you been while the reports of the finding of mass graves has been posted? KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half Would that be the certainty that Bush and Blair had that Sadaam Hussein was a danger to the world? Or would that be the certainty that someone like Neville Chamberlain had that conlict must be avoided at all costs...... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Tell that to the Liberians
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
We should. "The undergrowth was overgrown..."
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KaЯl wrote: You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? You misspelled "Common Sense 101" KaЯl wrote: What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! I plan on being alive in a quarter of a century. Give me a call in 2028. Let's see if the Iraqis are better off for not having been slaughtered by the thousands by Saddam Hussein and his sons in the intervening years. For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. KaЯl wrote: who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? We are not letting North Korea do what they want. We just need our troops where they are in case we need them to go knock on Syria or Iran's doors. After we free up the troops in the newly liberated and peaceful Iraq we can deal with North Korea if we need to. We may not need to. If we can pinpoint their current nukes, we'll just blow them up and get China to stop feeding them. After the people in NK start starving, they'll overthrow that Stalinistic little fuck Kim Jong Il.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
tnolley wrote: You misspelled "Common Sense 101" If the common sense consists in the invasion of a country on the pretext it has WMD when it hasn't, and to let another country whose anybody knows it has and it develops WMD do what it wants, I'm happy not to have this common sense. tnolley wrote: I plan on being alive in a quarter of a century. Give me a call in 2028. Oh, I forgot you were the new Pythia. If you can also predict the result of horse races, I'm interested. tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered BS. tnolley wrote: get China to stop feeding them Oh, yeah, China, another brilliant example of democracy and respect of human rights. Concentration camps, mass executions, political persecutions... What an ally! tnolley wrote: After the people in NK start starving, they'll overthrow that Stalinistic little f*** Kim Jong Il. Another BS. They're are already starving for years, but they aren't able to protest, and moreover to overthrow their Leader.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
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tnolley wrote: history will prove you wrong. You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards, who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? I'm not sure the answer is so clear. People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards For all we know Bush and Blair will praised for starting a world-wide attack against tyranny and terror, which eventually ends with success in 20 yrs time and the coming together of all nations in peace and understanding. BTW, NASA will also discover the secret of Santa's Sleigh. I have seen it, and now it has been written. BW "In a world full of people, only some want to fly,Isn't that crazy?" - Seal
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dead http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?cp1=1[^] Mike
The danish task force were sent out with lawnmowers as part of their kit... maybe they were looking for weapons of moss destruction. My world tour What I do now.. "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered" George Best. "I suppose if it was a choice between bon jovi and the interior of a car, the car would win, even it didnt have a radio and I had to sit in silence" James Simpson on Light Metal.
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KaЯl wrote: You learn well your Bush/Blair 101, do you? You misspelled "Common Sense 101" KaЯl wrote: What a pretentious behaviour to believe to know the future judgement of History! I plan on being alive in a quarter of a century. Give me a call in 2028. Let's see if the Iraqis are better off for not having been slaughtered by the thousands by Saddam Hussein and his sons in the intervening years. For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. KaЯl wrote: who decided to invade Iraq and let North Korea do what they want? We are not letting North Korea do what they want. We just need our troops where they are in case we need them to go knock on Syria or Iran's doors. After we free up the troops in the newly liberated and peaceful Iraq we can deal with North Korea if we need to. We may not need to. If we can pinpoint their current nukes, we'll just blow them up and get China to stop feeding them. After the people in NK start starving, they'll overthrow that Stalinistic little fuck Kim Jong Il.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. It must be so nice without coloured vision.
David Wulff
When you're through with life and all hope is lost Hold out your hand 'cos friends will be friends - right till the end - Queen
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KaЯl wrote: How would be judged two leaders who committed a crime against peace according to the Nuremberg trial standards I don't know but I would bet they will fare better than a leader who sold out the Iraqi people in the pursuit of oil contracts and trade with a tyrant. Where have you been while the reports of the finding of mass graves has been posted? KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half Would that be the certainty that Bush and Blair had that Sadaam Hussein was a danger to the world? Or would that be the certainty that someone like Neville Chamberlain had that conlict must be avoided at all costs...... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
The fact that Saddam was a bloody son a of bitch is not disputable. But there dozens of others all around the world, some of them still supported by the Western Nation. So as long as this argument will be used only for the dictators who have oil and not for the others, I'll dismiss it. About the mass graves, how many of the deads are the ones who were abandoned by the Western Nations after the end of GW1 after asking for their rising? Doug Goulden wrote: Would that be the certainty that Bush and Blair had that Sadaam Hussein was a danger to the world History will tell, but I can't presume yet in which direction the sentence will go.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
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KaЯl wrote: People full of certainty are amongst the most dangerous, they are ready to exterminate half the planet for the potential happiness of the other half. Nah, it is the ones who want to deal with the exterminators diplomatically who are the most dangerous. "The undergrowth was overgrown..."
Uzbekistan CheeseWeasle
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tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. It must be so nice without coloured vision.
David Wulff
When you're through with life and all hope is lost Hold out your hand 'cos friends will be friends - right till the end - Queen
Try taking off your rose colored glasses and you can find out;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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tnolley wrote: You misspelled "Common Sense 101" If the common sense consists in the invasion of a country on the pretext it has WMD when it hasn't, and to let another country whose anybody knows it has and it develops WMD do what it wants, I'm happy not to have this common sense. tnolley wrote: I plan on being alive in a quarter of a century. Give me a call in 2028. Oh, I forgot you were the new Pythia. If you can also predict the result of horse races, I'm interested. tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered BS. tnolley wrote: get China to stop feeding them Oh, yeah, China, another brilliant example of democracy and respect of human rights. Concentration camps, mass executions, political persecutions... What an ally! tnolley wrote: After the people in NK start starving, they'll overthrow that Stalinistic little f*** Kim Jong Il. Another BS. They're are already starving for years, but they aren't able to protest, and moreover to overthrow their Leader.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: If the common sense consists in the invasion of a country on the pretext it has WMD when it hasn't, and to let another country whose anybody knows it has and it develops WMD do what it wants, I'm happy not to have this common sense. If you read the documents leading up to the war, you would see that the President decided to use the military to liberate the oppressed nation of Iraq for several reasons. Among them: 1) Iraqs continued extermination of minority citizens 2) Iraqs subversion of the oil-for-food program 3) The report delivered by Hans Blix stating that the Iraqis were not in compliance with UNSCR 1441 4) Iraqs ties to international terrorism 5) Quoting Bush "I hope they understand the lesson of September the 11th, the lesson is, is that we're vulnerable to attack, wherever it may occur, and we must take threats which gather overseas very seriously." 6) The gulf war hostilities were suspended only conditionally - Saddam has violated those conditions and therefore the 1991 gulf war hostilities could be resumed WMD was not the "reason" we liberated the Iraqi people. KaЯl wrote: tnolley wrote: get China to stop feeding them Oh, yeah, China, another brilliant example of democracy and respect of human rights. Concentration camps, mass executions, political persecutions... What an ally! THis is funny. A lot of you pro-dictator types seem to use this tactic. You get upset when we overthrow a corrupt regime and moan about how bad the war is. Then you turn around and say "Why don't you invade North Korea, Syria, Libya & Iran then?" That makes you more hawkish than any republican! Just because commie china is no blushing virgin doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get their help.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
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Try taking off your rose colored glasses and you can find out;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
:-D
David Wulff
This thing called love, it cries in a cradle all night It swings, it jives, it shakes all over like a jelly fish I kinda like it. Crazy little thing called love - Queen
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tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. It must be so nice without coloured vision.
David Wulff
When you're through with life and all hope is lost Hold out your hand 'cos friends will be friends - right till the end - Queen
David Wulff wrote: tnolley wrote: For you to think otherwise is to believe that Saddam was good for the Iraqis he murdered. It must be so nice without coloured vision. If you didn't think Saddam was good for the people of Iraq then why would you not want him overthrown? We tried asking him nicely to leave. We offered safe passage to exile. Then we explained that he was in violation of UNSCR 1441 per the Blix report and that meant the conditional cessation of hostilities of the 1991 Gulf war were now legally rejoinable. He didn't listen. We tried to get him to leave. But he wouldn't. So we pushed him out.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
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The fact that Saddam was a bloody son a of bitch is not disputable. But there dozens of others all around the world, some of them still supported by the Western Nation. So as long as this argument will be used only for the dictators who have oil and not for the others, I'll dismiss it. About the mass graves, how many of the deads are the ones who were abandoned by the Western Nations after the end of GW1 after asking for their rising? Doug Goulden wrote: Would that be the certainty that Bush and Blair had that Sadaam Hussein was a danger to the world History will tell, but I can't presume yet in which direction the sentence will go.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: But there dozens of others all around the world, some of them still supported by the Western Nation. So as long as this argument will be used only for the dictators who have oil and not for the others, I'll dismiss it. That would actually be a logical argument if it wasn't totally ignoring several factors. First, there was no oil in Grenada, Panama or Afghanistan. Second, just because the dictator we are removing happens to have oil does not mean that is why we are doing it. KaЯl wrote: About the mass graves, how many of the deads are the ones who were abandoned by the Western Nations after the end of GW1 after asking for their rising? Who knows? If you are using this as an argument against the war then you are saying that once a western power has abandoned some people it forever prohibits the west from helping them in the future. That is so wacky that I just fell off my chair..........
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
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KaЯl wrote: If the common sense consists in the invasion of a country on the pretext it has WMD when it hasn't, and to let another country whose anybody knows it has and it develops WMD do what it wants, I'm happy not to have this common sense. If you read the documents leading up to the war, you would see that the President decided to use the military to liberate the oppressed nation of Iraq for several reasons. Among them: 1) Iraqs continued extermination of minority citizens 2) Iraqs subversion of the oil-for-food program 3) The report delivered by Hans Blix stating that the Iraqis were not in compliance with UNSCR 1441 4) Iraqs ties to international terrorism 5) Quoting Bush "I hope they understand the lesson of September the 11th, the lesson is, is that we're vulnerable to attack, wherever it may occur, and we must take threats which gather overseas very seriously." 6) The gulf war hostilities were suspended only conditionally - Saddam has violated those conditions and therefore the 1991 gulf war hostilities could be resumed WMD was not the "reason" we liberated the Iraqi people. KaЯl wrote: tnolley wrote: get China to stop feeding them Oh, yeah, China, another brilliant example of democracy and respect of human rights. Concentration camps, mass executions, political persecutions... What an ally! THis is funny. A lot of you pro-dictator types seem to use this tactic. You get upset when we overthrow a corrupt regime and moan about how bad the war is. Then you turn around and say "Why don't you invade North Korea, Syria, Libya & Iran then?" That makes you more hawkish than any republican! Just because commie china is no blushing virgin doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get their help.
I'm going to live forever or die trying!
GWB's reasons were so persuasive that the majority of the rest of the World refused to follow. tnolley wrote: That makes you more hawkish than any republican! Yes, I am, if it is really for the defense of Human Rights. This Rights are universal, not reserved for a few. Where the difference between China and Iraq?
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)
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Uzbekistan CheeseWeasle
Let's go... "The undergrowth was overgrown..."