Sacrifice & Pilgrimage
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Roger Allen wrote: I do still have some trouble on those level 10 (10 feet) routines! I'm still stuck at around 5 feet; but given that I haven't played for a few months I think its safe to say I won't be playing any 9 foot songs for quite a while :D James "When you get frunk whats really fuinny is that you dont really realize you are cdtrunk till you are too drunk and by thewn you are too drunk to give a damn about being drubnk :-0" A drunk Nish over Sonork
Its good to know that I am not the only Dance stage freak at CP. :cool: The hard part at getting really good is using your left/right foot on the opposite left/right arrow when appropriate. Plus its a great help to slow the routines right down if you have a training option. This can help you stop getting your legs tangeled up, and then you can go back up to full speed. Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 If your dead and reading this, then you have no life!
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Thanks for the insight Farhan :). Would you mind telling me more?
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography - The product of my passionHajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. Its obligatory on all adults, sane, healthy Muslims who can afford to go Mecca. (money, visa, passport etc) In Hajj, Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) and his infant son Ismail (Ishmael) and Ibrahim's wife Hajra. As a test of faith, Ibrahim was ordered to leave his family in the middle of desert with out any help. He did so and left his wife and son in desert b/c he knew that it was God's command and he trusted God that God would protect his family. When they ran out of food and water, Ismail was crying b/c of thirst and hunger, Hajra desparately ran back and forth on two mounds (now called Safa and Marwa) to see if there was water or any Oasis, or any people nearby. After her seventh round on these mounds, God ordered a spring of water to erupt from rubbing of crying baby Ismail's feet on the ground. Hajra saw this and reached her son and collected water by saying "Zam, Zam" (close meaning is to stop or to collect, this is an Arabic word, I dont speak Arabic, so pardon me if I am wrong). Very soon a caravan came along and helped Hajra and Ismail and decided to settle at that very spot. Now this has flourished into a city, Mecca. So, in pilgrimage Muslims go the same place where Ismail and Hajra were left by Ibrahim and go to Safa and Marwa just like Hajra did and drink from same water what Hajra and Ismail drank. This water is still a source of great spiritual up lifting of Muslims when they go to Mecca. Muslims sacrifice animal after Hajj to follow Ibrahim. Here is why, Prophet Ibrahim was ordered in divine revelation to sacrifice his most precious thing to prove his total submission to ALLAH (the one God). He sacrificed his animals, but the order came again. So he sacrificed wealth but order came again. So now all he had got was his son. He discussed the matter with his son Ismail. Ismail replied to his father the he should go ahead and fulfill the order. Therefore, he laid Ismail face down and was about to sacrifice his son but suddenly God's voice stopped him and declared him to be successful in this "test". Ismail was replaced by a sheep and this sheep was slaughtered to fulfill the divine command. Farhan Noor Qureshi
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Its good to know that I am not the only Dance stage freak at CP. :cool: The hard part at getting really good is using your left/right foot on the opposite left/right arrow when appropriate. Plus its a great help to slow the routines right down if you have a training option. This can help you stop getting your legs tangeled up, and then you can go back up to full speed. Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 If your dead and reading this, then you have no life!
Roger Allen wrote: Its good to know that I am not the only Dance stage freak at CP. I think Mike Dunn plays as well ;) Roger Allen wrote: The hard part at getting really good is using your left/right foot on the opposite left/right arrow when appropriate. Yep, that one tends to hurt my score. Another one I tend to have problems with is a left -> down -> right and right -> down -> left combos. I just can't remember to stand sideways with one foot on the down arrow, and the other hitting the left and right arrows. Usually it isn't too bad but on some songs (Healing Vision Angelic Mix, IIRC) I just can't move my feet fast enough to make up for it. James "When you get frunk whats really fuinny is that you dont really realize you are cdtrunk till you are too drunk and by thewn you are too drunk to give a damn about being drubnk :-0" A drunk Nish over Sonork
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Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. Its obligatory on all adults, sane, healthy Muslims who can afford to go Mecca. (money, visa, passport etc) In Hajj, Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) and his infant son Ismail (Ishmael) and Ibrahim's wife Hajra. As a test of faith, Ibrahim was ordered to leave his family in the middle of desert with out any help. He did so and left his wife and son in desert b/c he knew that it was God's command and he trusted God that God would protect his family. When they ran out of food and water, Ismail was crying b/c of thirst and hunger, Hajra desparately ran back and forth on two mounds (now called Safa and Marwa) to see if there was water or any Oasis, or any people nearby. After her seventh round on these mounds, God ordered a spring of water to erupt from rubbing of crying baby Ismail's feet on the ground. Hajra saw this and reached her son and collected water by saying "Zam, Zam" (close meaning is to stop or to collect, this is an Arabic word, I dont speak Arabic, so pardon me if I am wrong). Very soon a caravan came along and helped Hajra and Ismail and decided to settle at that very spot. Now this has flourished into a city, Mecca. So, in pilgrimage Muslims go the same place where Ismail and Hajra were left by Ibrahim and go to Safa and Marwa just like Hajra did and drink from same water what Hajra and Ismail drank. This water is still a source of great spiritual up lifting of Muslims when they go to Mecca. Muslims sacrifice animal after Hajj to follow Ibrahim. Here is why, Prophet Ibrahim was ordered in divine revelation to sacrifice his most precious thing to prove his total submission to ALLAH (the one God). He sacrificed his animals, but the order came again. So he sacrificed wealth but order came again. So now all he had got was his son. He discussed the matter with his son Ismail. Ismail replied to his father the he should go ahead and fulfill the order. Therefore, he laid Ismail face down and was about to sacrifice his son but suddenly God's voice stopped him and declared him to be successful in this "test". Ismail was replaced by a sheep and this sheep was slaughtered to fulfill the divine command. Farhan Noor Qureshi
Fascinating - thanks, Farhan!:-D "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
Isn't a pilgrimige about traveling to a destination of ones religion? I never saw anything anywhere that said you had to use a certain mode of transport. So why not a car? Or is he swimming the English channel etc? :-D:omg: Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 If your dead and reading this, then you have no life!
Pilgrims have been known to walk from Kenya and other African countries to Mecca and other far flung holy grounds. More sacrifice is believed to be better. I doubt it says anywhere Thou Must Walk And That Means No Donkies Either though. I read a book on it awhile back. Some nutters walk for months, whole families off to Mecca along these desert highways. Though I guess it does not compare with the Tibetan chaps who travel thousands of k's with every other step a crouch and bow. But it seems a bit, well, hypocritical to jet in, swan around in a luxury hotel, trundle over to your prayer mat in a limousine and then have attendants fan you as you bash your head repeatedly on the ground in the hope of licking up some sustenance without anyone noticing. ;) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Thinking about it, I am on a pilgrimage at the moment. Dare I say it to become a master at the "Dance stage" game(s) :-O. I do still have some trouble on those level 10 (10 feet) routines! I have sacrificed much time and buckets of sweat in regard for this holy quest, and no Paul, I am not going to put an mpeg of me on the web (well not yet anyway...:-D) Not quite sure in it qualifies as a religion! Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 If your dead and reading this, then you have no life!
>and no Paul, I am not going to put an mpeg of me on the web LOL You should come to South Africa. They have these dance machines in the arcade halls and you get groups of kids clustering around them all trying to out do each other. The coloureds here are reknowned for their swift feet* and mein god you should see them go. Pretty incredible, especially on the dual dance machines where they team up. * The stereotype says they have swift feet from all the running away from cops they do :rolleyes: regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. Its obligatory on all adults, sane, healthy Muslims who can afford to go Mecca. (money, visa, passport etc) In Hajj, Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) and his infant son Ismail (Ishmael) and Ibrahim's wife Hajra. As a test of faith, Ibrahim was ordered to leave his family in the middle of desert with out any help. He did so and left his wife and son in desert b/c he knew that it was God's command and he trusted God that God would protect his family. When they ran out of food and water, Ismail was crying b/c of thirst and hunger, Hajra desparately ran back and forth on two mounds (now called Safa and Marwa) to see if there was water or any Oasis, or any people nearby. After her seventh round on these mounds, God ordered a spring of water to erupt from rubbing of crying baby Ismail's feet on the ground. Hajra saw this and reached her son and collected water by saying "Zam, Zam" (close meaning is to stop or to collect, this is an Arabic word, I dont speak Arabic, so pardon me if I am wrong). Very soon a caravan came along and helped Hajra and Ismail and decided to settle at that very spot. Now this has flourished into a city, Mecca. So, in pilgrimage Muslims go the same place where Ismail and Hajra were left by Ibrahim and go to Safa and Marwa just like Hajra did and drink from same water what Hajra and Ismail drank. This water is still a source of great spiritual up lifting of Muslims when they go to Mecca. Muslims sacrifice animal after Hajj to follow Ibrahim. Here is why, Prophet Ibrahim was ordered in divine revelation to sacrifice his most precious thing to prove his total submission to ALLAH (the one God). He sacrificed his animals, but the order came again. So he sacrificed wealth but order came again. So now all he had got was his son. He discussed the matter with his son Ismail. Ismail replied to his father the he should go ahead and fulfill the order. Therefore, he laid Ismail face down and was about to sacrifice his son but suddenly God's voice stopped him and declared him to be successful in this "test". Ismail was replaced by a sheep and this sheep was slaughtered to fulfill the divine command. Farhan Noor Qureshi
Wow, thanks - I didn't know half of that! I'm pretty rusty on the Old Testament, but I don't recall parts of that story being there (possibly wrong, the near sacrificing of his son I remember, but his wife running between the pillars 7 times I'm sure I haven't read before). I always thought that Jewish and Muslim writings on this time period were the same. Perhaps I should find someone who knows both Arabic and Hebrew to tell me if the translations in the original languages are similar :).
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography - The product of my passion -
Fascinating - thanks, Farhan!:-D "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."You are most welcome. Farhan Noor Qureshi
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Wow, thanks - I didn't know half of that! I'm pretty rusty on the Old Testament, but I don't recall parts of that story being there (possibly wrong, the near sacrificing of his son I remember, but his wife running between the pillars 7 times I'm sure I haven't read before). I always thought that Jewish and Muslim writings on this time period were the same. Perhaps I should find someone who knows both Arabic and Hebrew to tell me if the translations in the original languages are similar :).
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography - The product of my passionI don't know about the Jewish version but what I mentioned in my post, comes from my knowledge about Quran and the sayings of Prophet Mohammad. I tried to be as precise as possible, there are more details to it though. Farhan Noor Qureshi
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Wow, thanks - I didn't know half of that! I'm pretty rusty on the Old Testament, but I don't recall parts of that story being there (possibly wrong, the near sacrificing of his son I remember, but his wife running between the pillars 7 times I'm sure I haven't read before). I always thought that Jewish and Muslim writings on this time period were the same. Perhaps I should find someone who knows both Arabic and Hebrew to tell me if the translations in the original languages are similar :).
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography - The product of my passionThe Old Testament is extraordinarily similar in most respects but this: Ishmael (the english transliteration of Ismail), the oldest and firstborn of Abraham (Ibrahim), is the son of a servant Hagar. Once Abraham's second son, Issac, is born by his wife Sarai and is weaned, Sarai demanded of Abraham to get rid of Hagar and Ishmael. Abraham did not want to meet her demand, because Ishmael was his son, but God assured him that though his descendents would be counted through Issac, God would keep Ishmael safe and prosperous. With God's assurance, Abraham packed Hagar and Ishmael with food and water and sent them away. This is where it gets very interesting. After a while the food and water were gone, Hagar lay the boy under a shrub and walked far away, because she didn't want to see her son die. With Hagar weeping over her son, an angel came and told her not to weep because God had heard the boy's cries and would take care of him. God the allowed Hagar to see a well which kept them both alive. As you can see, there are great many parallels. Thanks again, Farhan, I didn't know the Quran's teachings on this either. Note: For a source, i used the NET version of the Bible. From Genesis chapters 16 & 21 D Daniel Larsen, Professional Casanova Blood, Sweat, Toil and Tears
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Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. Its obligatory on all adults, sane, healthy Muslims who can afford to go Mecca. (money, visa, passport etc) In Hajj, Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) and his infant son Ismail (Ishmael) and Ibrahim's wife Hajra. As a test of faith, Ibrahim was ordered to leave his family in the middle of desert with out any help. He did so and left his wife and son in desert b/c he knew that it was God's command and he trusted God that God would protect his family. When they ran out of food and water, Ismail was crying b/c of thirst and hunger, Hajra desparately ran back and forth on two mounds (now called Safa and Marwa) to see if there was water or any Oasis, or any people nearby. After her seventh round on these mounds, God ordered a spring of water to erupt from rubbing of crying baby Ismail's feet on the ground. Hajra saw this and reached her son and collected water by saying "Zam, Zam" (close meaning is to stop or to collect, this is an Arabic word, I dont speak Arabic, so pardon me if I am wrong). Very soon a caravan came along and helped Hajra and Ismail and decided to settle at that very spot. Now this has flourished into a city, Mecca. So, in pilgrimage Muslims go the same place where Ismail and Hajra were left by Ibrahim and go to Safa and Marwa just like Hajra did and drink from same water what Hajra and Ismail drank. This water is still a source of great spiritual up lifting of Muslims when they go to Mecca. Muslims sacrifice animal after Hajj to follow Ibrahim. Here is why, Prophet Ibrahim was ordered in divine revelation to sacrifice his most precious thing to prove his total submission to ALLAH (the one God). He sacrificed his animals, but the order came again. So he sacrificed wealth but order came again. So now all he had got was his son. He discussed the matter with his son Ismail. Ismail replied to his father the he should go ahead and fulfill the order. Therefore, he laid Ismail face down and was about to sacrifice his son but suddenly God's voice stopped him and declared him to be successful in this "test". Ismail was replaced by a sheep and this sheep was slaughtered to fulfill the divine command. Farhan Noor Qureshi
Farhan Noor Qureshi wrote: So now all he had got was his son. He discussed the matter with his son Ismail. Ismail replied to his father the he should go ahead and fulfill the order. Therefore, he laid Ismail face down and was about to sacrifice his son We truly live in evil times. Nowadays when some freak kills his kid because god told him to we throw him in jail! If they had better PR consultants they would be heralded as prophets.
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The Old Testament is extraordinarily similar in most respects but this: Ishmael (the english transliteration of Ismail), the oldest and firstborn of Abraham (Ibrahim), is the son of a servant Hagar. Once Abraham's second son, Issac, is born by his wife Sarai and is weaned, Sarai demanded of Abraham to get rid of Hagar and Ishmael. Abraham did not want to meet her demand, because Ishmael was his son, but God assured him that though his descendents would be counted through Issac, God would keep Ishmael safe and prosperous. With God's assurance, Abraham packed Hagar and Ishmael with food and water and sent them away. This is where it gets very interesting. After a while the food and water were gone, Hagar lay the boy under a shrub and walked far away, because she didn't want to see her son die. With Hagar weeping over her son, an angel came and told her not to weep because God had heard the boy's cries and would take care of him. God the allowed Hagar to see a well which kept them both alive. As you can see, there are great many parallels. Thanks again, Farhan, I didn't know the Quran's teachings on this either. Note: For a source, i used the NET version of the Bible. From Genesis chapters 16 & 21 D Daniel Larsen, Professional Casanova Blood, Sweat, Toil and Tears
Daniel Larsen wrote: As you can see, there are great many parallels. Of course - and anyone who isn't deluding themself realizes that this points to a fable that predates both the bible and the koran and thus both the bible and the koran are falsely attributing the actions of the people. I KNOW MY RELIGION IS THE TRUE RELIGION! BECAUSE IT IS MY RELIGION!!!! God, I love humans..........
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Seeing as CP membership represents a good cross-section of society I thought I'd ask my question here: A colleague of mine left today for Saudi Arabia for a Muslim pilgrimage. He went last year as well, and makes the sacrifice of fasting each Ramadan. I must say, I respect his willpower. Yesterday however I was asking him about the physical endurance required for the pilgrimage he'll be undertaking. He's pretty tough, and although originally from Bangladesh spent a few years in the British Army. Imagine my surprise then when he told me that you can catch a cab if you get tired. Not wanting to offend him I didn't say anything, but I was wondering if anyone here could shed more light on what it's like to go on a pilgrimage like this?
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography - The product of my passionAs I understand it, having known many muslims over the years, the idea is that people make the effort that is appropriate for them. E.g. if someone is ill, then there is no need to fast during daytime while Ramadan is on. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D