"If we do not make an effort, we cannot put an end to this scourge"
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
How about the "share" concept (from "A Short History of the Future" ). You take the worlds wealth (or a region of the world, say Europe for example) as a whole and divide it by the number of adults - this gives you the "share" per-head. People unwilling to work only get a half-share, and people with exceptional skills get a share and a half. Communism basically - but we'd all feel good inside right? Anyone know the total wealth of the planet? It is right to say that the only way to fight poverty right now is to redistribute wealth - and this is always going to upset those who will have their wealth taken away. You would never get the world to agree on an international tax, no matter how noble the aims.
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
What's in it for me; what do I care if other people starve?
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
« eikonoklastes »
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How about the "share" concept (from "A Short History of the Future" ). You take the worlds wealth (or a region of the world, say Europe for example) as a whole and divide it by the number of adults - this gives you the "share" per-head. People unwilling to work only get a half-share, and people with exceptional skills get a share and a half. Communism basically - but we'd all feel good inside right? Anyone know the total wealth of the planet? It is right to say that the only way to fight poverty right now is to redistribute wealth - and this is always going to upset those who will have their wealth taken away. You would never get the world to agree on an international tax, no matter how noble the aims.
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Yeah that concept turned out wonderfully for the Soviets. The USSR was really a grand utopia.
Exactly. None of these "wonderful" systems take into account human nature (greed) and the fact that most peopole don't actually care if people in a far-away country are starving. Hell, most don't even care if people in the next street are starving. These systems also make the massive assumption that affluent people like ourseleves are willing to give up our luxuries for the greater good. Ha! Of course, some would say that the problem with many of these systems (Communism, Socialism, etc.) is in the fact that you are still left with a handful of people at the top with all the power, with 95% of the rest of us beign shafted. At least Capitalism rewards the majority - OK, it isn't black and white and people are exploited (exploitations and Capitalism are bedfellows) but on the whole, anyone (in The West at least) can succeed if they work hard and have the right attitude. The gap between rich and poor is huge in the USA/UK, which is distasteful, as is the excesses of Capitalism - people at the top being paid millions even when the companies they run are failing for example - but it's still the best we've got IMHO. Any alternative that relies on massive central government is doomed to fail eventually. To give "A Short History of the Future" some credit, this "share" scheme it discussed was introduced after WWIII had eradicated most of the US/Europe anyway, so the majority of people left alive has been living in poverty. Interesting read nonetheless, even the author is an obvious Socialist.
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
Poverty, geeez from the subject I thought you were talking about spam. Chris Meech We're more like a hobbiest in a Home Depot drooling at all the shiny power tools, rather than a craftsman that makes the chair to an exacting level of comfort by measuring the customer's butt. Marc Clifton VB is like a toolbox, in the hands of a craftsman, you can end up with some amazing stuff, but without the skills to use it right you end up with Homer Simpson's attempt at building a barbeque or his attempt at a Spice rack. Michael P. Butler
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
The poor of "your" nation becomes "my" responsibility. What fucking garbage, no suprise that Goofi is in the midst of it. By the way, how did Europe react to Goofi saying that you needed to open your doors to just everyone who wants in? Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
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How about the "share" concept (from "A Short History of the Future" ). You take the worlds wealth (or a region of the world, say Europe for example) as a whole and divide it by the number of adults - this gives you the "share" per-head. People unwilling to work only get a half-share, and people with exceptional skills get a share and a half. Communism basically - but we'd all feel good inside right? Anyone know the total wealth of the planet? It is right to say that the only way to fight poverty right now is to redistribute wealth - and this is always going to upset those who will have their wealth taken away. You would never get the world to agree on an international tax, no matter how noble the aims.
IMHO - The redistribution would need to be repeated every couple years because the same people who are rich today would be rich again and the same people who are poor would be poor again. Please allow me to introduce myself - I’m a man of wealth and taste. I’ve been around for a long, long year - Stole many a man’s soul and faith
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
The notion that an economy can be taxed to prosperity is utter Marxist propaganda. The biggest problem with the world's economy today is over-taxation, not under-taxation. And the irony is that the people who are hurt most by the economic inefficiency produced by over-taxation are the poor themselves. The real reason for taxation is that it gives an elitist minority control over the behavior of large masses of people. Taxation gives the leftist elite the power to dictate behavior to people, and that is why that promote the completely ludicrous notion that we need an international tax of some kind. The people of the world, especially the poor, have got to be weened from the expectation that it is the responsibility of government to care for them. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
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The poor of "your" nation becomes "my" responsibility. What fucking garbage, no suprise that Goofi is in the midst of it. By the way, how did Europe react to Goofi saying that you needed to open your doors to just everyone who wants in? Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
>how did Europe react to Goofi saying that you needed to open your doors to just everyone who wants in? I can't speak for the rest of Europe but any suggestion that the UK needs more immigrants wouldn't be very popular with Joe Average! Immigration is a massive issue (totally overhyped IMHO) here at the moment and lot of people are getting very worked up about these pesky asylum-seekers stealing our jobs. It won't do the UNs reputation any favours if its head suggests we let more in!
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The notion that an economy can be taxed to prosperity is utter Marxist propaganda. The biggest problem with the world's economy today is over-taxation, not under-taxation. And the irony is that the people who are hurt most by the economic inefficiency produced by over-taxation are the poor themselves. The real reason for taxation is that it gives an elitist minority control over the behavior of large masses of people. Taxation gives the leftist elite the power to dictate behavior to people, and that is why that promote the completely ludicrous notion that we need an international tax of some kind. The people of the world, especially the poor, have got to be weened from the expectation that it is the responsibility of government to care for them. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
Stan Shannon wrote: The people of the world, especially the poor, have got to be weened from the expectation that it is the responsibility of government to care for them. 5! :) Please allow me to introduce myself - I’m a man of wealth and taste. I’ve been around for a long, long year - Stole many a man’s soul and faith
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
President Lyndon Johnson tried something like this called "The Great Society", and failed miserably.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
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The notion that an economy can be taxed to prosperity is utter Marxist propaganda. The biggest problem with the world's economy today is over-taxation, not under-taxation. And the irony is that the people who are hurt most by the economic inefficiency produced by over-taxation are the poor themselves. The real reason for taxation is that it gives an elitist minority control over the behavior of large masses of people. Taxation gives the leftist elite the power to dictate behavior to people, and that is why that promote the completely ludicrous notion that we need an international tax of some kind. The people of the world, especially the poor, have got to be weened from the expectation that it is the responsibility of government to care for them. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
I am convinced that the less tax you pay then the more you spend on good and services that, in turn, generates wealth and helps everyone else. High taxation stifles growth and creates generation after generation of people who think it's their birthright to sit around doint sweet FA ("the government won't let us starve"). When I was younger I flirted with the ideals of Socialism ("tax the rich! redistribute the wealth") but with age comes wisdom (or pragmatism at least) I guess. Tellingly, when the UK had its mosr left-wing government (the Labour goverment of the late 70s) it was also the worst time for this country since WWII. Taxation at 99% (yep - that's why all our rock stars left us!), the unions in charge, lowest productivity in the West, etc. etc. I can't believe that people are being forced the same pill by the current government - and they are falling for it! What's worse is that now, in the noughties, taxation is by the back door - at least previous Labour governments were honest about wanting all your wages! Give it a few years and we'll have to give ALL out money to the chancellor who in turn will give us fucking pocket money.
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I am convinced that the less tax you pay then the more you spend on good and services that, in turn, generates wealth and helps everyone else. High taxation stifles growth and creates generation after generation of people who think it's their birthright to sit around doint sweet FA ("the government won't let us starve"). When I was younger I flirted with the ideals of Socialism ("tax the rich! redistribute the wealth") but with age comes wisdom (or pragmatism at least) I guess. Tellingly, when the UK had its mosr left-wing government (the Labour goverment of the late 70s) it was also the worst time for this country since WWII. Taxation at 99% (yep - that's why all our rock stars left us!), the unions in charge, lowest productivity in the West, etc. etc. I can't believe that people are being forced the same pill by the current government - and they are falling for it! What's worse is that now, in the noughties, taxation is by the back door - at least previous Labour governments were honest about wanting all your wages! Give it a few years and we'll have to give ALL out money to the chancellor who in turn will give us fucking pocket money.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I am convinced that the less tax you pay then the more you spend on good and services that, in turn, generates wealth and helps everyone else. Yup. Ironically, this is the same reason I think there shouldn't be tuition fees for access to University, and that education here should be funded from tax funds - because a graduate not paying off his debt for education is instead buying cars, houses, wide screen televisions, and other goods, and without getting in further debt to the banks and credit companies.
Ian Darling "The different versions of the UN*X brand operating system are numbered in a logical sequence: 5, 6, 7, 2, 2.9, 3, 4.0, III, 4.1, V, 4.2, V.2, and 4.3" - Alan Filipski
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>how did Europe react to Goofi saying that you needed to open your doors to just everyone who wants in? I can't speak for the rest of Europe but any suggestion that the UK needs more immigrants wouldn't be very popular with Joe Average! Immigration is a massive issue (totally overhyped IMHO) here at the moment and lot of people are getting very worked up about these pesky asylum-seekers stealing our jobs. It won't do the UNs reputation any favours if its head suggests we let more in!
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: here at the moment and lot of people are getting very worked up about these pesky asylum-seekers stealing our jobs. Which is interesting, considering we are losing more jobs to cheap overseas workers, rather than to asylum seekers. I'm not too bothered about asylum seekers coming over here and working... it's the ones who are here making use of the NHS, DHSS and the like which piss me off. I pay a fortune in National Insurance, and it certainly isn't going to benefit me in the future when I'm retired. Michael But you know when the truth is told, That you can get what you want or you can just get old, Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through. When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel
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The notion that an economy can be taxed to prosperity is utter Marxist propaganda. The biggest problem with the world's economy today is over-taxation, not under-taxation. And the irony is that the people who are hurt most by the economic inefficiency produced by over-taxation are the poor themselves. The real reason for taxation is that it gives an elitist minority control over the behavior of large masses of people. Taxation gives the leftist elite the power to dictate behavior to people, and that is why that promote the completely ludicrous notion that we need an international tax of some kind. The people of the world, especially the poor, have got to be weened from the expectation that it is the responsibility of government to care for them. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
+5 When are you gonna run for office. fyi - check out www.townhall.com for the conservative meetings around the country, 1st Tuesday of each month. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times
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"The fight against poverty is a moral obligation for those who govern all the countries in the world," the Brazilian president and former trade unionist told journalists. "I would like us to have the strength to guarantee a percentage of all money circulating in the world," he added.[^]
In amongst the statues Stare at nothing in The garden moves...
This seems to overlook the fact that lots of money that is allocated to the needy - never gets there. Due to corruption, tin pot little dictators and the like. Finding more money isn't the answer. Making sure the money that is currently been used to solve these problems is better used. Michael But you know when the truth is told, That you can get what you want or you can just get old, Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through. When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I am convinced that the less tax you pay then the more you spend on good and services that, in turn, generates wealth and helps everyone else. Yup. Ironically, this is the same reason I think there shouldn't be tuition fees for access to University, and that education here should be funded from tax funds - because a graduate not paying off his debt for education is instead buying cars, houses, wide screen televisions, and other goods, and without getting in further debt to the banks and credit companies.
Ian Darling "The different versions of the UN*X brand operating system are numbered in a logical sequence: 5, 6, 7, 2, 2.9, 3, 4.0, III, 4.1, V, 4.2, V.2, and 4.3" - Alan Filipski
Well, the universities do need the money, but the REAL problem is the totally absurd target of 50% of school leavers attending uni. This is total madness. Not only does this ridiculous target mean that more funding is required, it also means a degree becomes devalued! In fact, this is already starting to happen - to qualifications in general - A levels, degrees, etc. are not worth the same to industry as they were 10 years ago. Some companies are unofficially penalising students form the old polytechnics, citing that their degrees are not the same as from other more established universities. University should be for the brightest and best - no matter the social background - perhaps the top 10% for example. They SHOULD be for the intellectual elite quite frankly (regardless of how much your parents earn). I am more than happy to help pay for the best of each generation to attend uni - bring back the grant if possible too - but I do not want my tax pounds paying for people to do worthless degrees for the hell of it (or so they can "attend the school of life"). If someone wants to do a degree in fucking pop music studies then they should pay for it. Degrees in engineering, science/medicine, etc. are different - they will actually benefit society. But, if the goverment insists on this crazy target of 50%, then they get my reluctant support for top-up fees. I don't want to pay for legions of students - many of whom will not have a job when they finish because the degree they have chosen is, well, rubbish - to attend univewrsity if they are not going to be helping society. Business is screaming for more people to do vocational courses, or to be trained on the job - this I am happy for my tax money to help with as it has an immidiate benefit to the economy. I am totally amazed how New Labour can introduce a Thatcherite policy despite promising not to just 2 years ago AND how the Conservatives can then stand up and oppose it! What the fuck is going on?
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: here at the moment and lot of people are getting very worked up about these pesky asylum-seekers stealing our jobs. Which is interesting, considering we are losing more jobs to cheap overseas workers, rather than to asylum seekers. I'm not too bothered about asylum seekers coming over here and working... it's the ones who are here making use of the NHS, DHSS and the like which piss me off. I pay a fortune in National Insurance, and it certainly isn't going to benefit me in the future when I'm retired. Michael But you know when the truth is told, That you can get what you want or you can just get old, Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through. When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel
>Which is interesting, considering we are losing more jobs to cheap overseas workers, rather than to asylum seekers. Indeed. However, certain elements of the press are very good at pushing the buttons of the ill-informed and asylum seekers are an easy target. >it's the ones who are here making use of the NHS, DHSS and the like which piss me off It annoys me too but I think it may have been overblown by the aforementioned gutter press. If people want to come here for a better life and are willing to work and pay taxes, then I don't have a problem with it. I think the majority of asylum seekers fall into this category and If the boot was on the other foot I'd want the same chance. Man, without immigrant workers the NHS would be fucked - no joke! The biggest problem is the time it takes to turn around an application for asylum - a snails pace compared to other European countries thanks to this countrys love of red-tape. If we had a more efficient system then it wouldn't be costing the taxpayer so much (though the actual cost it pretty small in the grand scheme of things - 0.4% or something). It isn't going to be an election issue for me, that's for sure, but I know plenty of people that, being disenchanted with Tony, are lining up to vote Tory, with asylum as one of their excuses! ;)
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What's in it for me; what do I care if other people starve?
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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