Homosexuals
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Mr.Prakash wrote: One question do, why do gays have to marry? they are not going to give birth together. So you're saying that people should only be allowed to marry if they're going to procreate? What about sterile heterosexuals? Should they be forbidden to marry, too? Mr.Prakash wrote: do they have divorse laws? Ever heard of Divorce Court[^]? :-D
Jon Sagara Vegetarianism is unhealthy. Humans need protein, and lots of it. Put down those sprouts and pick up a T-bone! -- Michael Moore
Latest Article: Breadcrumbs in ASP.NETJon Sagara wrote: you're saying that people should only be allowed to marry if they're going to procreate? Thats because defenition in west different from east. I don't say its only for give born to children but its one of its important reasons. Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
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Mr.Prakash wrote: why do gays have to marry? Because there are some benefits only available to married couples Mr.Prakash wrote: do they have divorse laws? yes
"if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Support Bone It's a weird Life
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Nick Seng wrote: Because there are some benefits only available to married couples And what are those? Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Well, it differs from country to country, but I found a list on those benefits for the US http://fogarty.org/tim/gay_issues/marriage_benifits.html[^] [Edit]In retrospection, I feel that the real reason people(gay or straight) want to get married is because they want a more formal recognization of their love, more than for the benefits listed above. I could be wrong though[/Edit]
"if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Support Bone It's a weird Life
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Well, it differs from country to country, but I found a list on those benefits for the US http://fogarty.org/tim/gay_issues/marriage_benifits.html[^] [Edit]In retrospection, I feel that the real reason people(gay or straight) want to get married is because they want a more formal recognization of their love, more than for the benefits listed above. I could be wrong though[/Edit]
"if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Support Bone It's a weird Life
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Ok, some people do it for genetic reasons, what about others? They have emotional problem? Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: They have emotional problem? Nope - homosexuality was "de-recognised" as a form of mental illness a couple of decades ago. This originally came about because nobody bothered interviewing gay people anywhere other than the psychiatrists couch - hence it was thought to be a mental problem. Then some real research was done, interviewing gay people who were otherwise "normal" and weren't being treated for mental problems, and they realised that you didn't have to be nuts to be gay. AFAIK, homosexuality has a primarily developmental dimension to it (rather than being genetic) - that is to say that hormonal influences in the womb can affect an individuals sexual orientation. There may be other influences too (such as cultural, environmental and genetic), but I am not an expert so I'll stop there before I get it all wrong :-D
Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
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Ok friends , seriously ,these days there are so much discussions about gay marriage,now some questions come to my mind. Why there is no talking about lesbian marriage? Are they silent about it or they have some laws now which satisfy them or...? And another thing that I want to know,is not about their marriage,it is about their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance ;) ) Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. Mazdak wrote: Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Mazdak wrote: They have emotional problem? Nope - homosexuality was "de-recognised" as a form of mental illness a couple of decades ago. This originally came about because nobody bothered interviewing gay people anywhere other than the psychiatrists couch - hence it was thought to be a mental problem. Then some real research was done, interviewing gay people who were otherwise "normal" and weren't being treated for mental problems, and they realised that you didn't have to be nuts to be gay. AFAIK, homosexuality has a primarily developmental dimension to it (rather than being genetic) - that is to say that hormonal influences in the womb can affect an individuals sexual orientation. There may be other influences too (such as cultural, environmental and genetic), but I am not an expert so I'll stop there before I get it all wrong :-D
Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
Ian Darling wrote: AFAIK, homosexuality has a primarily developmental dimension to it (rather than being genetic) - that is to say that hormonal influences in the womb can affect an individuals sexual orientation. Then why isn't it a treatable condition as any other condition caused by "hormonal influences" in the womb would be? "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Ian Darling wrote: AFAIK, homosexuality has a primarily developmental dimension to it (rather than being genetic) - that is to say that hormonal influences in the womb can affect an individuals sexual orientation. Then why isn't it a treatable condition as any other condition caused by "hormonal influences" in the womb would be? "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Sorry, this 'hormones in the womb' is just the plasuible denial theme continuing. Sometimes genes act in odd ways so as soon as the foetus starts to develop that's it. The tigress is here :-D
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Sorry, this 'hormones in the womb' is just the plasuible denial theme continuing. Sometimes genes act in odd ways so as soon as the foetus starts to develop that's it. The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: Sometimes genes act in odd ways so as soon as the foetus starts to develop that's it. Speaking of "plasuible denial" ... :laugh: "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Ok friends , seriously ,these days there are so much discussions about gay marriage,now some questions come to my mind. Why there is no talking about lesbian marriage? Are they silent about it or they have some laws now which satisfy them or...? And another thing that I want to know,is not about their marriage,it is about their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance ;) ) Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this? You get about the same proportion of gay/lesbian people as you do left handed people. So is it not natural to be left handed? As to why we are homosexuals, there have been studies that suggest the development level (size) of one small area of the brain can control this. There is nothing wrong with it, people are what they are. Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 Roger Wright: Remember to buckle up, please, and encourage your friends to do the same. It's not just about saving your life, but saving the quality of life for those you may leave behind...
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Mazdak wrote: their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. Mazdak wrote: Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. Well, the thingk I finally want to understand is , Does a person have the right to BE a gay or not. I think if thats something all biological or something depend on how they grown up, well of course nobody can bannded them. I don't want to related it to our tradition, there shouldn't be difference for it in different culture cause we are all human like the way we say about black and whites. But technicly we can't all become gay cause human race will ruin,we need children, and what I BELIEVE is human are not created by default like it. Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
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Mazdak wrote: Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this? You get about the same proportion of gay/lesbian people as you do left handed people. So is it not natural to be left handed? As to why we are homosexuals, there have been studies that suggest the development level (size) of one small area of the brain can control this. There is nothing wrong with it, people are what they are. Roger Allen - Sonork 100.10016 Roger Wright: Remember to buckle up, please, and encourage your friends to do the same. It's not just about saving your life, but saving the quality of life for those you may leave behind...
Roger Allen wrote: You get about the same proportion of gay/lesbian people as you do left handed people. So is it not natural to be left handed? Nope, They are completely different. Nothing happend if all people become left handed but something do happen if all become gay. Roger Allen wrote: As to why we are homosexuals, there have been studies that suggest the development level (size) of one small area of the brain can control this. There is nothing wrong with it, people are what they are. Ok, thats what I'm looking for, but I don't know if its for all gays or there are some other reasons too. :-) Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
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One question do, why do gays have to marry? they are not going to give birth together. ..another one. Ok they have marrage laws? do they have divorse laws?
I have lost more blood shaving than on the battlefield - Adolf Hitler
marriage is much more than reproduction. in a 1999 study, the General Accounting Office counted over a thousand government-recognized benefits given to couples by the Federal government: (big long PDF here). Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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Roger Allen wrote: You get about the same proportion of gay/lesbian people as you do left handed people. So is it not natural to be left handed? Nope, They are completely different. Nothing happend if all people become left handed but something do happen if all become gay. Roger Allen wrote: As to why we are homosexuals, there have been studies that suggest the development level (size) of one small area of the brain can control this. There is nothing wrong with it, people are what they are. Ok, thats what I'm looking for, but I don't know if its for all gays or there are some other reasons too. :-) Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: but something do happen if all become gay. It is important to remember that gay != sterile. Gay people still raise families, in cases their own.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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Stan Shannon wrote: Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. Well, the thingk I finally want to understand is , Does a person have the right to BE a gay or not. I think if thats something all biological or something depend on how they grown up, well of course nobody can bannded them. I don't want to related it to our tradition, there shouldn't be difference for it in different culture cause we are all human like the way we say about black and whites. But technicly we can't all become gay cause human race will ruin,we need children, and what I BELIEVE is human are not created by default like it. Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: Well, the thingk I finally want to understand is , Does a person have the right to BE a gay or not. My answer to that would be "Yes, but..." Certainly, who a person choices to love and have a relationship with is their own damned business. But, the real question is if a person pursues such a relationship do I have the right to be intolerant of it? That is, are you and I to be legally required to tolerate behaviors we are morally predisposed to find objectionable. If we are to say that one person has the "right" to behave as a homosexual than why should I not have the "right" to behave as a homophobe? Why is their right to a defined set of behaviors any more valid than mine or yours? And if the state can force us to tolerate behaviors we do not wish to tolerate, how can we be said to possess a "free exercise of religion"? The good thing about all this is that by pursueing this course, the left has opened a can of worms which they will ultimately be unable to control. The irrationality which their religious beliefs are predicated upon, as with all such religions, will collapse like a house of cards. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Roger Allen wrote: You get about the same proportion of gay/lesbian people as you do left handed people. So is it not natural to be left handed? Nope, They are completely different. Nothing happend if all people become left handed but something do happen if all become gay. Roger Allen wrote: As to why we are homosexuals, there have been studies that suggest the development level (size) of one small area of the brain can control this. There is nothing wrong with it, people are what they are. Ok, thats what I'm looking for, but I don't know if its for all gays or there are some other reasons too. :-) Mazy "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
Mazdak wrote: Nothing happend if all people become left handed Being left-handed myself I can assure you it would be a revolution! Many, many things are designed for right-handed people :| But it's another debate :) Does it really matter why some people are gays and other aren't, if it comes from the genes or the education? The fact is, some people are gays, whatever the country and the period of history, knowing "why" has IMHO little interest. As long as Freedom consists in being able to do all that does not harm others, I see no reason to persecute or limit the rights of these people because of their sexual preferences, as long as they aren't breaking this generic rule, as the heterosexuals.
And I'm talking to myself at night because I can't forget Back and forth through my mind Behind a cigarette
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Mazdak wrote: their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. Mazdak wrote: Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. Uhm.. why do you have to bring God into this argument? Are you implying all liberals are religious? If rand() is divine, I'll buy your argument. ;P Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. Ah yes, but what if your child says "No dad, I am what I am, and you cannot change me!" - is it still your right to "fix" him/her? Gay people don't know they're gay until their sex drive kicks in. Before that they just know they're different than others. Stan Shannon wrote: Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. Society evolves. I mean, if it wasn't for this evolution, there would be no US, home of the brave, etc. Clinging on to the past or fighting progress is not always worth the effort - I mean, what do you have to earn by denying same sex marriages? -- Unser Tanz ist so wild! Ein neuer böser Tanz. Alle gegen Alle!
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Mazdak wrote: their total consept, what cause people become gay/lesbian? I mean is that something genetically which they can't enjoy from opposite gender? I've heard some peoples like that or it comes from their childhood and the way they grown up. But there are some people that change their way from when they are not child. How about those? Some people say it is natural to be gay/lebian but how is it natural which most of human nature from the beginig up to now are NOT like this?(I don't think we can say we are not homosexual by mistake or by chance This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. Mazdak wrote: Please don't answer last question that it is 21th century and many things have change , so does this one,This doesn't make any scense alone.(At least for me) Apparently when the left say it is time for something to change, than we are all just supposed to mindlessly get in line and help them to change it. End of discussion. You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards, so they get to dictate to society what its moral standards will be - so get used to it, there will be more coming soon. I hope there was nothing about any aspect of tradtional social values you were overly fond of. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. Utter tripe. Belief in a role of genetics in determining human characteristics has nothing to do with creationism. You seem to have plumbed new depths in the rubbish you are prepared to offer in support of your beliefs. Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. The true position is the opposite of what you claim. In reality, religious cranks torment homosexuals with totally bogus "cures" that have no scientific or medical basis. Stan Shannon wrote: You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards I'm glad we agree on something. John Carson "I wish to propose for the reader's favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." - Bertrand Russell
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Stan Shannon wrote: This is the one argument where liberals have to depend on creationism to defend their beliefs. God created some people straight and some people gay, and that is simply the natural order of things. Utter tripe. Belief in a role of genetics in determining human characteristics has nothing to do with creationism. You seem to have plumbed new depths in the rubbish you are prepared to offer in support of your beliefs. Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that I, as a parent, upon discovering that one of my children might be inclined towards homosexuality, could seek treatment for it, and to expect that we would apply standard scientific and medical methodologies to understanding the issue, unencumbered by politically correct dogma, is of course, one of the many "immoral" beliefs that the left demands that we reject. The true position is the opposite of what you claim. In reality, religious cranks torment homosexuals with totally bogus "cures" that have no scientific or medical basis. Stan Shannon wrote: You see, they have a clearer, more refined, moral perspective than the rest of us retards I'm glad we agree on something. John Carson "I wish to propose for the reader's favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." - Bertrand Russell
John Carson wrote: Belief in a role of genetics in determining human characteristics has nothing to do with creationism. Yes, and the notion that a characteristic which by definition disallows the production of a viable offspring is genetic, and that such a gene could survive unaffected for thousands of generations such that it affects virtually every human population in near equal percentages, can only be explained by appealing to a devine authority. John Carson wrote: The true position is the opposite of what you claim. In reality, religious cranks torment homosexuals with totally bogus "cures" that have no scientific or medical basis. Well, OK, so how about some well funded non-bogus, controlled research to establish a set of treatments for those few individuals who might wake up one morning and decide they no longer wanted to be homosexual? I mean, if we can have research on how to convert the "trans-gendered" from one sex to another, certainly changing a homosexual to a heterosexual can't be all that difficult. John Carson wrote: I'm glad we agree on something. I just knew all you mindless true believers would like that. :) "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Trollslayer wrote: Sometimes genes act in odd ways so as soon as the foetus starts to develop that's it. Speaking of "plasuible denial" ... :laugh: "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
If I thought there was a chance of cure then that would be great. So far all I have seen is people being pushed into denial or lying to protect themselves. The tigress is here :-D