Time to go?
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Anonymous wrote: Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. Freedom for some people, occupation for some other people, and chaos for the rest.
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Anonymous wrote: Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. Freedom for some people, occupation for some other people, and chaos for the rest.
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Anonymous wrote: Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. if only the poor die and we can keep our money, war is fantastic. The price of freedom is the price of oil.
There is something far more important than oil at stake here. It is our way of life. And it is only because we have always fought for our freedom that you have the right to espouse your opinions. And it is because of those hard-won freedoms that I would defend your right to an opinion even were that opinion to be opposite to my own. Our civilsation is under direct threat from an alien culture. Unless we intend to allow ourselves to be meekly subsumed into that culture we have to stand and fight. I hope that that fight creates as few victims as possible. Sadly, that other culture does not care how many victims it creates in its cause. It doesn't even matter who is right or wrong - it only matters that I have the right to ensure the survival of my culture and traditions over that of another culture which I do not wish to become part of, especially forcibly. Mark, London.
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During a debate on CNN's Crossfire, Rangel acknowledged the idea of the draft is highly unpopular. But, he said, if Americans who back the war are not willing to make a sacrifice, they are hypocrites. "It's like saying, `Let's go fight, I'll hold your coat,'"[^]
Mais donnez-moi aussi Le courage et la force et la foi Car vous êtes le seul à donner Ce que l'on ne peut obtenir que de soi.
Remember that this is an election year. Rangel is trying to use the draft as a scare tactic. I support the war, but I don't want to go fight if I'm not needed. That's why we have a standing army. If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
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I'm ready to volunteer and I'm not even American. Sooner or later you'll all realise that the only way you can keep any vestige of the freedoms you take for granted is to fight for them. And whether or not you agree with the way Bush/Blair have handled things eventually we'll have to acknowledge that the war needs to be fought and won, decisively. Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. Mark, London.
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During a debate on CNN's Crossfire, Rangel acknowledged the idea of the draft is highly unpopular. But, he said, if Americans who back the war are not willing to make a sacrifice, they are hypocrites. "It's like saying, `Let's go fight, I'll hold your coat,'"[^]
Mais donnez-moi aussi Le courage et la force et la foi Car vous êtes le seul à donner Ce que l'on ne peut obtenir que de soi.
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Confucius says: "Freedom is just an western illusion" Peter Chen says "and it's way overrated"
Flirt harder, I'm a Coder
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenA: So one can safely assume that you stay as far away from the freedoms that the west offers its citizens as you your little legs can carry you? B: You've been there, tried it and then decided you didn't like it. C: I'm utterly wrong and you were simply trying to be quaintly ironic. D: There is no D. BTW as a child/teenager I also held lofty but largely pompous ideals about life and my place in it, etc, etc. As a parent I would willingly lay down my life for my children and for their safety and freedom. I would not hesitate to volunteer if called upon to do so even if it meant sitting behind a desk to free up a foot soldier to defend our freedoms and to ensure future peace and prosperity for my children. Mark, London
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Confucius says: "Freedom is just an western illusion" Peter Chen says "and it's way overrated"
Flirt harder, I'm a Coder
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygen -
During a debate on CNN's Crossfire, Rangel acknowledged the idea of the draft is highly unpopular. But, he said, if Americans who back the war are not willing to make a sacrifice, they are hypocrites. "It's like saying, `Let's go fight, I'll hold your coat,'"[^]
Mais donnez-moi aussi Le courage et la force et la foi Car vous êtes le seul à donner Ce que l'on ne peut obtenir que de soi.
What about working with the UN ? This would be good politically as well as strategically. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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What about working with the UN ? This would be good politically as well as strategically. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
Good for who, exactly? For Iraq? Good decision there, then, not to back the US/UK when they knew the war would happen regardless of what they voted for. Should have pre-empted if they were serious about peace. Maybe if they actually did something they'd be worth while. At the moment they are a waste of tax payers (mostly US taxpayers) money. Shut them down before they do any real damage. Mark, London.
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Remember that this is an election year. Rangel is trying to use the draft as a scare tactic. I support the war, but I don't want to go fight if I'm not needed. That's why we have a standing army. If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: I support the war, but I don't want to go fight if I'm not needed. That's why we have a standing army. If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly. The thing about warfare is that it's become increasingly technical and highly skilled over the last 100 years. 100 years ago you didn't have fighter jets or tanks, you barely had machine guns. Wars now don't need millions of men sitting in trenches and charging at the other side, hoping they don't get blown up in the process. A military draft now would almost be counterproductive, because you don't want millions of poorly trained soldiers in tin helmets carrying rifles with bayonets, you want a (few) hundred thousand really well trained ones with good equipment and superior firepower. Which is what modern militaries are. Do you really want a codeproject members light brigade? :-)
Ian Darling "If we've learned anything from history, it's that those who feed trolls are condemned to repetitive conversations. Or something like that." - Eric Lippert
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Jason Henderson wrote: I support the war, but I don't want to go fight if I'm not needed. That's why we have a standing army. If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly. The thing about warfare is that it's become increasingly technical and highly skilled over the last 100 years. 100 years ago you didn't have fighter jets or tanks, you barely had machine guns. Wars now don't need millions of men sitting in trenches and charging at the other side, hoping they don't get blown up in the process. A military draft now would almost be counterproductive, because you don't want millions of poorly trained soldiers in tin helmets carrying rifles with bayonets, you want a (few) hundred thousand really well trained ones with good equipment and superior firepower. Which is what modern militaries are. Do you really want a codeproject members light brigade? :-)
Ian Darling "If we've learned anything from history, it's that those who feed trolls are condemned to repetitive conversations. Or something like that." - Eric Lippert
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I'm ready to volunteer and I'm not even American. Sooner or later you'll all realise that the only way you can keep any vestige of the freedoms you take for granted is to fight for them. And whether or not you agree with the way Bush/Blair have handled things eventually we'll have to acknowledge that the war needs to be fought and won, decisively. Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. Mark, London.
Anonymous wrote: Sooner or later you'll all realise that the only way you can keep any vestige of the freedoms you take for granted is to fight for them. I have heard soldiers that have fought in Iraq and have come back to the states say the Iraqi's need to fight for their own freedom. And I agree. Later, JoeSox "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- Diogenes Laërtius joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Confucius says: "Freedom is just an western illusion" Peter Chen says "and it's way overrated"
Flirt harder, I'm a Coder
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: Peter Chen says "and it's way overrated" Fuck You! I love freedom of speech.;P Later, JoeSox "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- Diogenes Laërtius joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Anonymous wrote: Sooner or later you'll all realise that the only way you can keep any vestige of the freedoms you take for granted is to fight for them. I have heard soldiers that have fought in Iraq and have come back to the states say the Iraqi's need to fight for their own freedom. And I agree. Later, JoeSox "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- Diogenes Laërtius joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
The problem is they won't. If they were going to they already would have regardless of the situation, ie Saddam Hussein. People who are oppressed enough will eventually rise up if freedom is really what they want. If they don't then they have the dictator they deserve. In any case show me a true democracy in the middle east (other than Israel). Most Moslem or Arab nations appear to enjoy (if that is the right word) living under these conditions. The problem is they want the rest of us to live like that as well. Buggered if I'm going without a fight - I like living in a free society where I can enjoy the privilige of spouting these opinions without fear. Mark, London.
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The problem is they won't. If they were going to they already would have regardless of the situation, ie Saddam Hussein. People who are oppressed enough will eventually rise up if freedom is really what they want. If they don't then they have the dictator they deserve. In any case show me a true democracy in the middle east (other than Israel). Most Moslem or Arab nations appear to enjoy (if that is the right word) living under these conditions. The problem is they want the rest of us to live like that as well. Buggered if I'm going without a fight - I like living in a free society where I can enjoy the privilige of spouting these opinions without fear. Mark, London.
Anonymous wrote: The problem is they won't. So use force and aggression to control them. Yeah makes sense too me. X| :mad: X| Later, JoeSox "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- Diogenes Laërtius joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Remember that this is an election year. Rangel is trying to use the draft as a scare tactic. I support the war, but I don't want to go fight if I'm not needed. That's why we have a standing army. If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly. What your argument need is Logic, Logic, and more Logic: If you are drafted to go, then you are not doing so willingly.
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Anonymous wrote: The problem is they won't. So use force and aggression to control them. Yeah makes sense too me. X| :mad: X| Later, JoeSox "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- Diogenes Laërtius joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
No, I think you may have side swiped the point. It seems there was just no real point in trying to 'save' the Iraqis when they'll simply revert to type once we leave. Of course, we could just dump a large cache of weapons in the desert, pull out and see what happens. I see no point in our boys getting killed and maimed when the end result will be that it'll collapse back to its previous state. Bit like trying to hold back entropy - can't be done. On the other hand if we went after the real enemies more vigorously... maybe with a nuke or 3...
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Jason Henderson wrote: If the need were great and I was drafted, I would go willingly. What your argument need is Logic, Logic, and more Logic: If you are drafted to go, then you are not doing so willingly.
You are trying to impose a logical response on an emotional issue. That is not how it works. Besides, there are ways around the draft so what he says is not quite as contradictory as it reads. He may have meant 'If I know I'm about to be drafted I'll go volunteer'. Many men did this in WWII and Veitnam. If you volunteer you are more likely to get your choice of posting or trade within the forces.
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I'm ready to volunteer and I'm not even American. Sooner or later you'll all realise that the only way you can keep any vestige of the freedoms you take for granted is to fight for them. And whether or not you agree with the way Bush/Blair have handled things eventually we'll have to acknowledge that the war needs to be fought and won, decisively. Remember, the price of freedom is, most often, war. Mark, London.
You can't get the spastic knee-jerk whiners to understand things no matter how hard you try. Just rest easy in the knowledge that if Kerry had done the exact same thing then those now rending their clothes and whining like little bitches would be the ones supporting it. It is funny and sad at the same time.
Glano perictu com sahni delorin!