If you wouldn't follow Hitler, why follow God?
-
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
- Keep apart a) Belief b) God c) Religion d) Church 2) People have always been looking for a system that explains the unexplainable, gives guidance in times of change, and provides the ethical values that a society needs to function You can take away the 4 points above, but they will be replaced by something similar. Money, for example, has some attributes of religion - at least I argued that in PolSci final school exam. Got me a funny smile, but a good grade too.
we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is Vonnegut jr.
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygen -
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
Ignoring the rest of the post content (obviously trollish), then answer is: Hitler cared only about himself (and people like him, I suppose). God loves everybody enough to become a human and die for them. Hitler didn't care what certain people thought or acted like. If they were born a certain way, they were toast. God gives everyone a chance to make their own choice, explaining what the results will be, so they can make it properly. There are a multitude of other things that you are either ignoring or don't quite understand, but from the tone of your post, you probably don't want to. :( John
"You said a whole sentence with no words in it, and I understood you!" -- my wife as she cries about slowly becoming a geek. -
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
I always thougth creating autonomous beings to worship you is rather unrigtoues. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother.
-
Ignoring the rest of the post content (obviously trollish), then answer is: Hitler cared only about himself (and people like him, I suppose). God loves everybody enough to become a human and die for them. Hitler didn't care what certain people thought or acted like. If they were born a certain way, they were toast. God gives everyone a chance to make their own choice, explaining what the results will be, so they can make it properly. There are a multitude of other things that you are either ignoring or don't quite understand, but from the tone of your post, you probably don't want to. :( John
"You said a whole sentence with no words in it, and I understood you!" -- my wife as she cries about slowly becoming a geek.John Fisher wrote: (obviously trollish), Wrong. I was stating a belief I strongly hold. Opening a controversial subject to debate is not the same as trolling. John Fisher wrote: Hitler cared only about himself We never knew Hitler so that line of reasoning is stricken. John Fisher wrote: God loves everybody enough to become a human and die for them. If you would have read my post you would have known that that is one of the common firewall-dodges employed. God didn't "die for us" Hi is supposedly immortal so out of the infinity of time he supposedly existed, his brief stint on this earth which ended in his crudifixion could not have been any more than the tiniest of mosquito bites to him. And if he loved everyone so much - why threaten them with eternal torture? How much did he love people before he got bored shitless with not having a race of intelligent beings to worship him? Sounds to me like the big man got tired of not having "free willed" toys to play with. So he created us for the purpose of worshipping him and if we fail to do so we are tortured forever. Sorry, but there is no way I could ever become enough of a hypocrite to worship a god like that. John Fisher wrote: God gives everyone a chance to make their own choice, explaining what the results will be, so they can make it properly. "I am a loving kidnapper. You have free will, but if you chose to run away then I will shoot you in the lower groin and kick you in the face until you die. And then I will resurrect you and do it all over agin until I get bored. So you had better use your free will to love me more than you love your children and parents." Yeah - right. John Fisher wrote: There are a multitude of other things that you are either ignoring or don't quite understand, but from the tone of your post, you probably don't want to. I've read it all. I have been fascinated by theology since the age of around 12. I have always been interested in why so many Christians do un-Christian things and live entire lifestyles that are at odds with the documentation that shipped with Xtianity 1.0 How about you? Are you a "sinner"? Of course you are. Now for the hard question - do you actively try your hardest - with every ounce of your being, intellect and emotion to simply not do those things that you know are wrong? Or do you use cop-out number 445-A: We ar
-
I always thougth creating autonomous beings to worship you is rather unrigtoues. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother.
It is so stupid that it baffles anyone with a brain. I AM OMNIPOTENT! I HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED AND ALWAYS WILL!!!!!!!!!! (echo) (echo) Hmmmm. I am bored. What good is being omnipotent if there is noone around to worship you? *POOF* *BZZZZZZZT* *hammer, hammer, nail, nail* . . . 6 days pass . . "Whew! I'm tired. I just created the world. I think I'll rest today. I'll get started on punishing my newly created beings as soon as they start dying. This out to be fun....." . . . Old testament era passes . . . "Methinks they are on to me. I need a new spiel. So far I have 80 million souls in my eternal torture chamber but not a single person up here to worship me 'up close'.... I'll go down there and really fuck with their heads....." . . . Jesus lives . . . "Wow, that really stirred thing up *snicker*! Look at them now! Wow - it is really taking off!" . . etc.
-
Ignoring the rest of the post content (obviously trollish), then answer is: Hitler cared only about himself (and people like him, I suppose). God loves everybody enough to become a human and die for them. Hitler didn't care what certain people thought or acted like. If they were born a certain way, they were toast. God gives everyone a chance to make their own choice, explaining what the results will be, so they can make it properly. There are a multitude of other things that you are either ignoring or don't quite understand, but from the tone of your post, you probably don't want to. :( John
"You said a whole sentence with no words in it, and I understood you!" -- my wife as she cries about slowly becoming a geek.John Fisher wrote: Hitler cared only about himself (and people like him, I suppose). That's a hard assertion. I might be out on a nazi limb here, but my money is on him wanting only the best for his followers. No matter how evil and twisted you are, you don't want to be hated by everyone. John Fisher wrote: Hitler didn't care what certain people thought or acted like. Eh..? So he just persecuted and killed his opposition for the fun of it? :) -- Booohoo!
-
- Keep apart a) Belief b) God c) Religion d) Church 2) People have always been looking for a system that explains the unexplainable, gives guidance in times of change, and provides the ethical values that a society needs to function You can take away the 4 points above, but they will be replaced by something similar. Money, for example, has some attributes of religion - at least I argued that in PolSci final school exam. Got me a funny smile, but a good grade too.
we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is Vonnegut jr.
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: People have always been looking for a system that explains the unexplainable Science. peterchen wrote: gives guidance in times of change Friends and family and your own intestinal fortitude. peterchen wrote: provides the ethical values Family.
-
Who evangelized in your Corn Flakes this morning? BW The Biggest Loser
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"This was initially goint to be a response to Jorgen's "Propaganda" thread but it turned into its own rant.
-
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
To summarize your post: * Deities are brain ghost terrorists. * Believers are victims of terrorism, suffering the Stockholm syndrome. Am I close? -- Booohoo!
-
Terry O`Nolley wrote: ...preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths... My '5' for this line alone! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: "Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it. It's too risky. You get a sense of it and then you look away." Jerry Seinfeld
Thank you sir! What I find odd is the same people who deny religion isn't just the "opiate of the masses" taken to prevent death anxiety also say that religion does exist to help "explain life". :confused: To me, that is the same thing - if you assume that a lack of explanation would cause anxiety.
-
Terry O`Nolley wrote: whining about their looming deaths I may be spiritual but I'm not too sure this fits into my life. Terry O`Nolley wrote: innate human morality :wtf: So you are claiming that we are born with a human morality now. How about my dog, was he born with an animal morality? Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] I think people should be required to have an operator's permit to use the internet. John Simmons
Chris Meech wrote: So you are claiming that we are born with a human morality now. I meant a morality that can exist outside of religion. Any culture on earth will understand property rights and all morality is based on property rights - the instinctive knowledge of what is yours and what isn't. Most mammals understand this also - just witness animals dragging a piece of the kill off to the side so that they can enjoy it alone. The 10 commandments are almost entirely about property rights: 1)Thou shalt have no other gods before me God claiming ownership over the beliefs of humanity 2)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image Ditto 3)Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain God wants to retain ownership of his copyright and not allow it fall into the public domain 4) & 5) Are more about Godly vanity then theft 6)Thou shalt not do murder a) God owns the people so he doesn't want his sycophants being offed b) Killing a member of your tribe diminishes that tribe's capabilities so you are, in effect, stealing from every member of that tribe 7)Thou shalt not commit adultery Because you would be stealing from the woman's husband. 8)Thou shalt not steal self explanatory 9)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour doing so could deprive him of property, livlihood or life and would be the same as stealing those things directly 10)Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house Because covetting could lead to stealing Innate human morality is as simple as keep your hands off of what is mine. And it does exist. Chris Meech wrote: How about my dog, was he born with an animal morality? Yes. A dog knows when he is encroaching on another's territory. It is instinctive. "Morality" itself is a human word so you can twist all sorts of selective literalisms from what I have written. Feel free. But we don't need a religion to teach us morals and we shouldn't need some fantasy promise of eternal life after your heart seizes up like the engine of a 1969 Chevy Impala with a missing oil pan to keep you focused and productive.
-
This was initially goint to be a response to Jorgen's "Propaganda" thread but it turned into its own rant.
Ahh. I don't think you can apply logic, at least not exclusively, when trying to figure out people's motivations regarding religion. Also, I don't think you can pinpoint a static system of belief as most people are constantly updating their beliefs based on experience. What I believe to be the truth, some might think is totally whacked out, and others may completely agree with me. Either way, it really doesn't matter, because my religion is my own personal compass and is only useful relative to my life, because nobody else has my point of view. BW The Biggest Loser
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun" -
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
Wow, a straight jump through the clutter to the core of Godwin's Law. Impressive, Terry! :) fwiw, I agree wholeheartedly with the subject of your post, if not the tone. You got my 5.
Jeremy Kimball Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. (I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head)
-
To summarize your post: * Deities are brain ghost terrorists. * Believers are victims of terrorism, suffering the Stockholm syndrome. Am I close? -- Booohoo!
Interesting summary...will have to jot that down :)
Jeremy Kimball Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. (I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head)
-
Ahh. I don't think you can apply logic, at least not exclusively, when trying to figure out people's motivations regarding religion. Also, I don't think you can pinpoint a static system of belief as most people are constantly updating their beliefs based on experience. What I believe to be the truth, some might think is totally whacked out, and others may completely agree with me. Either way, it really doesn't matter, because my religion is my own personal compass and is only useful relative to my life, because nobody else has my point of view. BW The Biggest Loser
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"Well put. Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
-
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
How the hell do you know there really isn't a being of infinite power who punishes you for all eternity for not abiding by "his" will? (BTW, the bible dosn't actually say you "go to hell" just that you don't get to go to heaven. The concept of hell worked its way into chrisianity from the Greeks not from Jesus.) "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
-
John Fisher wrote: Hitler cared only about himself (and people like him, I suppose). That's a hard assertion. I might be out on a nazi limb here, but my money is on him wanting only the best for his followers. No matter how evil and twisted you are, you don't want to be hated by everyone. John Fisher wrote: Hitler didn't care what certain people thought or acted like. Eh..? So he just persecuted and killed his opposition for the fun of it? :) -- Booohoo!
Both of those statements were in direct reference to his treatment of Jews (and others he dealt with similarly). John
"You said a whole sentence with no words in it, and I understood you!" -- my wife as she cries about slowly becoming a geek. -
John Fisher wrote: (obviously trollish), Wrong. I was stating a belief I strongly hold. Opening a controversial subject to debate is not the same as trolling. John Fisher wrote: Hitler cared only about himself We never knew Hitler so that line of reasoning is stricken. John Fisher wrote: God loves everybody enough to become a human and die for them. If you would have read my post you would have known that that is one of the common firewall-dodges employed. God didn't "die for us" Hi is supposedly immortal so out of the infinity of time he supposedly existed, his brief stint on this earth which ended in his crudifixion could not have been any more than the tiniest of mosquito bites to him. And if he loved everyone so much - why threaten them with eternal torture? How much did he love people before he got bored shitless with not having a race of intelligent beings to worship him? Sounds to me like the big man got tired of not having "free willed" toys to play with. So he created us for the purpose of worshipping him and if we fail to do so we are tortured forever. Sorry, but there is no way I could ever become enough of a hypocrite to worship a god like that. John Fisher wrote: God gives everyone a chance to make their own choice, explaining what the results will be, so they can make it properly. "I am a loving kidnapper. You have free will, but if you chose to run away then I will shoot you in the lower groin and kick you in the face until you die. And then I will resurrect you and do it all over agin until I get bored. So you had better use your free will to love me more than you love your children and parents." Yeah - right. John Fisher wrote: There are a multitude of other things that you are either ignoring or don't quite understand, but from the tone of your post, you probably don't want to. I've read it all. I have been fascinated by theology since the age of around 12. I have always been interested in why so many Christians do un-Christian things and live entire lifestyles that are at odds with the documentation that shipped with Xtianity 1.0 How about you? Are you a "sinner"? Of course you are. Now for the hard question - do you actively try your hardest - with every ounce of your being, intellect and emotion to simply not do those things that you know are wrong? Or do you use cop-out number 445-A: We ar
Terry O`Nolley wrote: Wrong. I was stating a belief I strongly hold. Opening a controversial subject to debate is not the same as trolling. I guess that depends upon your viewpoint. Now that you've stated that it isn't, then I'll believe it wasn't. :) Terry O`Nolley wrote: We never knew Hitler so that line of reasoning is stricken. You didn't quote my whole sentence. Also, this line of reasoning is not stricken -- you can easily see much of his thinking by the way he treated those he deemed "inferior". Terry O`Nolley wrote: If you would have read my post you would have known that that is one of the common firewall-dodges employed. I read about halfway, and did see that. Believing the truth is not a "firewall-dodge" any more than your own statement is a dodge to avoid dealing with my assertion. Terry O`Nolley wrote: God didn't "die for us" Yes "God" continued to exist, but the human that he became did die. This was no light matter. Whether you care about a "never to live again" idea or not, He went through incredible spiritual and physical torture for us -- with the direct goal of keeping us OUT of the torture you refer to. Terry O`Nolley wrote: I am a loving kidnapper.... It's rather obvious that you have animosity toward the idea of a loving God. I'm not sure why, but you can't focus only on one side of God's character and get an accurate understanding, no matter how well you think you've studied theology. God gives you a choice: A. Life on earth with a little extra struggle living as He asks results in more awesome rewards than any human can imagine. B. Life on earth lived however you want, without caring about God's will results in you getting exactly what you wanted -- being separate from God. (Right now, you are experiencing the benefits of God's mercy. When you die without choosing to be with Him forever, that's what get -- complete separation from God and the benefits He wants to give.) Terry O`Nolley wrote: I've read it all That's nearly impossible, so I doubt it. Terry O`Nolley wrote: Now for the hard question - do you actively try your hardest ... Most of the time, yes. Other times I fail. Sinning again and asking for God's forgiveness is no "cop-out". If you had read as much as you say, you'd understand that. (Some people do use it as a
-
How the hell do you know there really isn't a being of infinite power who punishes you for all eternity for not abiding by "his" will? (BTW, the bible dosn't actually say you "go to hell" just that you don't get to go to heaven. The concept of hell worked its way into chrisianity from the Greeks not from Jesus.) "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: BTW, the bible dosn't actually say you "go to hell" just that you don't get to go to heaven. The concept of hell worked its way into chrisianity from the Greeks not from Jesus If you sin, your name will not be in the book of life. If your name is not in the book of life, you will be cast into hell. Revelation 20.12-15:
20.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God,
and the books were opened. And another book was opened which
is of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things that
were written in the books according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and
hell delivered up the dead which were in them, and they were
judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and
hell were cast in the lake of fire. This is the second death,
15 and whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was
cast into the lake of fire.Wohoo! Cheerful stuff isn't it? And you don't see any problems with having religion and power intermixed. If this isn't a tool to push a moral agenda, then I don't know what is. But I guess it's ok if the moral is your own. -- Booohoo!
-
What sort of mewling drone would ever agree to follow a god who was so cruel, so vain as to demand abject worship from a bunch of human beings and send them to an eternal torture chamber if they don't kiss his ass hard enough?!?!?!? It is pathetic and every time I see a supposedly intelligent human being subscribe to those tenents I get the same sick feeling I do when I realize I have been inadvertantly conversing with a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. My skin crawls and I just want to leave the scene. The mindset used to willingly follow a god who will torture you forever if you don't kiss his ass is exactly the same mindset as the nazis. They feel that "well, since God (or Hitler) is in charge and He (or he) makes the rules then I need to follow them. And since God (or Hitler) is all powerful, anything I do to follow Him (him) is self-defined as being the right thing to do. Therefore, I can slough off my innate human morality and follow this new set of rules without guilt or shame. You can see the firewalls installed throughout the religion designed to prevent members from realizing there adherrance to the religion is fundamentally immoral: 1) Our god is a loving god (ignores the fact that you will be tortured forever for not kissing his ass) 2) He works in mysterious ways (deftly dodging the obvious "If god is so loving, why allow war?) 3) He sent his own son to suffer for our sins (utter BS - how can an immortal god actually suffer? For an immortal being, a few hours on a cross would be like me sticking my finger with a pin to see what it felt like) If they would at least admit that they were brain-washed by equally cowed lemming parents then I could give them a little respect. Why can't they realize that spirituality can be non-denominational? Why can't they understand that a common morality exists outside of religion? What flaw exists in the human psyche that allows them to believe in fairy tales? Are people really so weak that they can't accept their approaching deaths as simply the end of their brief fling on this wacky world? Wouldn't their energies be better spent living, loving, laughing and doing all of the "immoral" things that bring enjoyment and cause no harm? Religion is just a lifelong hypno-therapy session designed to ease the anxiety of death. I guess having dullard cow-eyed sheep dutifully filling the coffers of the churches is preferable to mobs of screaming weaklings whining about their looming deaths but I like to think that humanity, as whole, is r
Trolling again, Terry ? I'm confused. Nothing you have to say relates to any religion I know of, although some comments seem to refer to a religion that is very loosely based on Christianity. What religion is it that's annoyed you so ? Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder