Keyes
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Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational, or has his run for Illinois senator made him even moreso? Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for a vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, said Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary is a "selfish hedonist" because she is a lesbian. His comments came during an interview with SIRIUS satellite radio. Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism." Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is." Link[^] ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? ) "[Obama] has taken the slaveholder's position." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190195/posts[^] (For those who don't know, both Keyes and Obama are black.) ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
Brit wrote: Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying Or even using birth control! Unless you're "doing it" to instantiate a new child object, it's hedonism!!! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational, or has his run for Illinois senator made him even moreso? Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for a vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, said Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary is a "selfish hedonist" because she is a lesbian. His comments came during an interview with SIRIUS satellite radio. Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism." Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is." Link[^] ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? ) "[Obama] has taken the slaveholder's position." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190195/posts[^] (For those who don't know, both Keyes and Obama are black.) ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-sen17.html[^]
"Now, you think it's a coincidence that on September 11th, 2001, we were struck by terrorists an evil that has at its heart the disregard of innocent human life?" Keyes said in a May 7 speech in Provo, Utah. "We who have for several decades killed not thousands but scores of millions of our own children, in disregard of the principle of innocent human life -- I don't think that's a coincidence, I think that's a warning. "I don't think that's a coincidence, I think that's a shot across the bow. I think that's a way of Providence telling us, 'I love you all; I'd like to give you a chance. Wake up! Would you please wake up?' "
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Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational, or has his run for Illinois senator made him even moreso? Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for a vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, said Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary is a "selfish hedonist" because she is a lesbian. His comments came during an interview with SIRIUS satellite radio. Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism." Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is." Link[^] ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? ) "[Obama] has taken the slaveholder's position." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190195/posts[^] (For those who don't know, both Keyes and Obama are black.) ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
While i happen to agree with him, since when has this country been against selfish hedonism? We have enough entertainment industries available to keep us from ever needing to stop and think, drugs and porn rarely more than a few minutes drive away, and enough opportunities to be a glutton that our own restaurant chains call us fat. We are the fucking nation of selfish hedonism. As for Keyes being saved from a life of picking cotton by the Declaration of Independence... for all its idealistic language, that document kept a lot of people picking cotton against their will here in the US, long after the Brits had abolished slavery across their empire. Keyes, it seems, would do well to keep his mouth shut.
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan... -
Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational, or has his run for Illinois senator made him even moreso? Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for a vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, said Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary is a "selfish hedonist" because she is a lesbian. His comments came during an interview with SIRIUS satellite radio. Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism." Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is." Link[^] ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? ) "[Obama] has taken the slaveholder's position." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190195/posts[^] (For those who don't know, both Keyes and Obama are black.) ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
What's up with Matt and bold Courier? If he just looked at his own site for 10 seconds, he too would know that it's almost unreadable. X| -- ...Coca Cola, sometimes war...
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Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational, or has his run for Illinois senator made him even moreso? Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for a vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, said Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary is a "selfish hedonist" because she is a lesbian. His comments came during an interview with SIRIUS satellite radio. Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism." Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is." Link[^] ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? ) "[Obama] has taken the slaveholder's position." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190195/posts[^] (For those who don't know, both Keyes and Obama are black.) ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
Brit wrote: Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational I don't think it can be considered irrational, but yes he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda. That is why he has never won public office - he has something to piss everyone off. Brit wrote: ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed. We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
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Brit wrote: Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational I don't think it can be considered irrational, but yes he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda. That is why he has never won public office - he has something to piss everyone off. Brit wrote: ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed. We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
Stan Shannon wrote: If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. So why can homosexual couples adopt children and get away from the alledged "selfish hedonism".
"Where do we go to get our good name back?...we go where we always go when a dramatic change is needed. We go to the ballot box" - Al Gore 5/26/04
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http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-sen17.html[^]
"Now, you think it's a coincidence that on September 11th, 2001, we were struck by terrorists an evil that has at its heart the disregard of innocent human life?" Keyes said in a May 7 speech in Provo, Utah. "We who have for several decades killed not thousands but scores of millions of our own children, in disregard of the principle of innocent human life -- I don't think that's a coincidence, I think that's a warning. "I don't think that's a coincidence, I think that's a shot across the bow. I think that's a way of Providence telling us, 'I love you all; I'd like to give you a chance. Wake up! Would you please wake up?' "
I am curious, what part do you agree/disagree with: 1) 9/11 terrorists == evil 2) 9/11 terrorists took innocent human life 3) millions of abortions have taken place in USA 4) unborn babies == innocent human life 5) There is no coincidence between the 9/11 attacks and abortions. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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While i happen to agree with him, since when has this country been against selfish hedonism? We have enough entertainment industries available to keep us from ever needing to stop and think, drugs and porn rarely more than a few minutes drive away, and enough opportunities to be a glutton that our own restaurant chains call us fat. We are the fucking nation of selfish hedonism. As for Keyes being saved from a life of picking cotton by the Declaration of Independence... for all its idealistic language, that document kept a lot of people picking cotton against their will here in the US, long after the Brits had abolished slavery across their empire. Keyes, it seems, would do well to keep his mouth shut.
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan...Shog9 wrote: As for Keyes being saved from a life of picking cotton by the Declaration of Independence... for all its idealistic language, that document kept a lot of people picking cotton against their will here in the US, long after the Brits had abolished slavery across their empire. Keyes, it seems, would do well to keep his mouth shut. Oh, come one, that's rediculous. Without the reasoning embodied within the Declaration of Independence the abolitionists movement would have been intellectually sterile. The primitive economic conditions of the late colonial and early federal eras were what kept slavery a viable institution for so long, for pete's sake. Just as soon as the North had developed a robust capitalistic system, the meaning inherent in the founding documents could be applied without fear of bringing on a distructive economic recession (except in the South, of course, which was lagging behind economically). This brought on the "second" American revolution which resulted in the American Civil War. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
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Brit wrote: Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational I don't think it can be considered irrational, but yes he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda. That is why he has never won public office - he has something to piss everyone off. Brit wrote: ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed. We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children Well what if they didn't? My wife and I don't have kids, and currently have no plans to have any. Are we selfish hedonists as well? I don't personally agree with a homosexual lifestyle or marriage. But I most certainly do NOT think that the Federal (or even State) government has any business getting involved with this at all. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed Who said it was? We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. I guess. Frankly I think the whole damn thing is completely blown all out of proportion to it's actual importance in the scheme of things. Given all the problems that need solving in the world today I'd have to rate this at or near the bottom of the barrel. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
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Stan Shannon wrote: If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. So why can homosexual couples adopt children and get away from the alledged "selfish hedonism".
"Where do we go to get our good name back?...we go where we always go when a dramatic change is needed. We go to the ballot box" - Al Gore 5/26/04
Wjousts wrote: So why can homosexual couples adopt children and get away from the alledged "selfish hedonism". Apparently because they are homosexual. I will not pretend to defend that reasoning, except to say that, IMO, children deserve a mom and a dad, male and female. I think that arrangement provides a child with a balanced world view that a homosexual couple cannot provide. Might some homosexuals make better parents, than some heterosexuals? I don't doubt it. But I think that 'normalizing' that sort of a family environment will ultimately do more harm than good. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
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If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children Well what if they didn't? My wife and I don't have kids, and currently have no plans to have any. Are we selfish hedonists as well? I don't personally agree with a homosexual lifestyle or marriage. But I most certainly do NOT think that the Federal (or even State) government has any business getting involved with this at all. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed Who said it was? We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. I guess. Frankly I think the whole damn thing is completely blown all out of proportion to it's actual importance in the scheme of things. Given all the problems that need solving in the world today I'd have to rate this at or near the bottom of the barrel. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
I agree absolutely with all of that. However, some things, such as marriage, have been 'state business' for a long time and for reasons that were critical to the maintenance of a civil society, so it is kind of late to say that the state has no role to play in the definition. (I agree completely though that the federal government has no business involving itself and I oppose Bush's amendemtn proposal) However, to a large extent this has all been brought on by the 'gay rights movement' itself, taking an ever more vociferous opposition to virtually anything that one might define as 'traditional culture'. When they do that, they have to expect a fight - opposition of some kind. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
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Brit wrote: Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying Or even using birth control! Unless you're "doing it" to instantiate a new child object, it's hedonism!!! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Marc Clifton wrote: to instantiate a new child object That's a new one on me :-D "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."
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I am curious, what part do you agree/disagree with: 1) 9/11 terrorists == evil 2) 9/11 terrorists took innocent human life 3) millions of abortions have taken place in USA 4) unborn babies == innocent human life 5) There is no coincidence between the 9/11 attacks and abortions. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote: what part do you agree/disagree with how about 5: "There is no coincidence between the 9/11 attacks and abortions". though i agree with what you actually wrote, Keyes said it wasn't a coincidence (ie. he said one follows from the other) and i'm assuming you mean to agree with him. if he sees 9/11 as a reasonable punishment* for our own moral and religious shortcomings... well, he'll find he has some allies in al-Q. --- * - or as something the US even deserves Software | Cleek
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Brit wrote: Has Alan Keyes always been this irrational I don't think it can be considered irrational, but yes he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda. That is why he has never won public office - he has something to piss everyone off. Brit wrote: ( Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying - because those would be marriages "based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism"? If an elderly couple or an infertile couple (heterosexuals all) were to adopt children than it would be a marriage with children as traditionally defined by our civilization. That institution is not broken and does not need to be fixed. We need some new definition of 'civil union' to give a legal status to those who do not fit in traditional definitions of marriage. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
Stan Shannon wrote: I don't think it can be considered irrational, but yes he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda. That is why he has never won public office - he has something to piss everyone off. His method of arguing against gay marriage is irrational because his argument also includes a whole lot of people that he (and most everyone else) wouldn't call "selfish hedonists". If he wants to argue against gay marriage, fine. But the way he does it makes me step back and say, "Good God! This is his how his decision making process works -- and he wants to be a leader?" The fact that his decision making process seems to be so poor and his opinions don't seem fully thought-through is the first reason I wouldn't vote for him -- nevermind the "he has never been afraid to take on the new-age-secular-moral-agenda" and "piss people off" stuff. [Edit] In addition to Wjousts comment - (why doesn't adoption legitimize gay marriage in the same way that it legitimizes elderly and infertile couples?) - I would be curious to know how Keyes argument stands up when medical technology makes it possible for gay couples to have their own children. If that sounds far-fetched, take a look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3643847.stm[^]. Even if this technology were widely available to people, we both know that it wouldn't change anyone's view of gay marriage because people's views on gay marriage have nothing to do with "marriage as a union exclusively for procreation". Everyone already knows that his argument falls flat. The only people who will attempt to defend him are people who are attempting to defend the implications of his argument (stopping gay marriage). His argument itself is obviously flawed. [\Edit] ----------------------------------------------------- Bush To Iraqi Militants: 'Please Stop Bringing It On' - The Onion "Moore's prominent presence in the news brings to light some serious questions, such as 'Can't he at least try to look presentable?'" - The Onion
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Brit wrote: Does that mean we should prevent old people and infertile couples from marrying Or even using birth control! Unless you're "doing it" to instantiate a new child object, it's hedonism!!! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Is it "child object" or "child process"? After all, the best way to produce a child process is to
fork. cheers, Chris Maunder -
Gary Kirkham wrote: what part do you agree/disagree with how about 5: "There is no coincidence between the 9/11 attacks and abortions". though i agree with what you actually wrote, Keyes said it wasn't a coincidence (ie. he said one follows from the other) and i'm assuming you mean to agree with him. if he sees 9/11 as a reasonable punishment* for our own moral and religious shortcomings... well, he'll find he has some allies in al-Q. --- * - or as something the US even deserves Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: and i'm assuming you mean to agree with him No, I didn't say that. However, I assume that you think that it is kooky (my word) to think that it wasn't a coincidence and that your reasoning is based on the fact that that you are an atheist (again just assuming). To someone who believes in God, the notion that God would allow judgment to come upon a nation is not kooky at all. The Bible is chock full of instances where God has allowed ungodly nations to have victory over Israel as a judgment upon Israel. Whether or not the 9/11 attacks was God's judgment on the USA for abortion, or anything else, remains for God to know and say. I don't agree or disagree with him; I just don't think that his believing it is, in any way, kooky. Can I assume that you agree with the other four statements? :) Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Is it "child object" or "child process"? After all, the best way to produce a child process is to
fork. cheers, Chris MaunderChris Maunder wrote: After all, the best way to produce a child process is to fork. ROTF!!! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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I agree absolutely with all of that. However, some things, such as marriage, have been 'state business' for a long time and for reasons that were critical to the maintenance of a civil society, so it is kind of late to say that the state has no role to play in the definition. (I agree completely though that the federal government has no business involving itself and I oppose Bush's amendemtn proposal) However, to a large extent this has all been brought on by the 'gay rights movement' itself, taking an ever more vociferous opposition to virtually anything that one might define as 'traditional culture'. When they do that, they have to expect a fight - opposition of some kind. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
to a large extent this has all been brought on by the 'gay rights movement' itself, taking an ever more vociferous opposition to virtually anything that one might define as 'traditional culture' Definitely with you there. While I personally may not approve or choose the lifestyle for myself, I'm not going to get overly bent out of shape with other's decision either. It's a free country, what you do with other consenting adults is your business. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
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While i happen to agree with him, since when has this country been against selfish hedonism? We have enough entertainment industries available to keep us from ever needing to stop and think, drugs and porn rarely more than a few minutes drive away, and enough opportunities to be a glutton that our own restaurant chains call us fat. We are the fucking nation of selfish hedonism. As for Keyes being saved from a life of picking cotton by the Declaration of Independence... for all its idealistic language, that document kept a lot of people picking cotton against their will here in the US, long after the Brits had abolished slavery across their empire. Keyes, it seems, would do well to keep his mouth shut.
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan...Shog9 wrote: We are the fucking nation of selfish hedonism. Apparently it is also a nation of juvenile vulgarities. Just curious, why do you feel the need to use them? Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Shog9 wrote: As for Keyes being saved from a life of picking cotton by the Declaration of Independence... for all its idealistic language, that document kept a lot of people picking cotton against their will here in the US, long after the Brits had abolished slavery across their empire. Keyes, it seems, would do well to keep his mouth shut. Oh, come one, that's rediculous. Without the reasoning embodied within the Declaration of Independence the abolitionists movement would have been intellectually sterile. The primitive economic conditions of the late colonial and early federal eras were what kept slavery a viable institution for so long, for pete's sake. Just as soon as the North had developed a robust capitalistic system, the meaning inherent in the founding documents could be applied without fear of bringing on a distructive economic recession (except in the South, of course, which was lagging behind economically). This brought on the "second" American revolution which resulted in the American Civil War. "Benedict Arnold was a war hero too."
Don't get me wrong - i'm all for the reasoning in the declaration. I firmly believe that all mankind is created equal, and furthermore consider creation something that happens a fair bit prior to birth. But social change comes not from ideals or declarations - it comes from people who take them to heart, who follow and promote them. It is possible there were many slaveowners at the time of the declaration and after who believed themselves to be no more human than those laboring for them... but it is certain that this country followed its liberating declaration with many years denying those who were in greatest need of it. As for the North... brutal working conditions for immigrants took many more years of strife and strikes to overcome. Greed trumps idealism everywhere.
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan...