Should Hitler be a person?
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There is one big problem though. The debt of the children. There is no doubt that I directly benefited from Apartheid. I received education that non-whites of my age were refused. I received health care* that they did not. My home situation was far better. I had a nice house, my parents had good jobs, we ate well and I got to play in nice jungle gyms. All the while black kids my age got none of that. Thanks to all that I have grown up better situated to earn a living and live in this world. In this year 2004, 10 years after apartheid officially ended, black guys of my age are still worse off than I am. Because they are black and for no other reason. So now I have to live with this. And Gemans have to live with the fact that many aspects, good and bad, of their life are as they are because of what Hitler did. A Jew may have their job right now had the Jews' grandparents or parents not being persecuted. Your ancestors persecuted the Native North Americans hundreds of years ago. Long before apartheid. Long before Hitler. From what little I know there are still Native American problems, claims and such being made for the return of homeland and monetary debt to be paid. So when is the debt paid? Is there a debt to pay? How many generations, if any at all, must pay? I personally have to just live with it and treat it as a "well, what if?" It's harsh but I am no good to South Africa if I grind to a halt in a haze of guilt and self hatred. Should I though go further and sacrifice my life to the righting of past wrongs? Subsume all personal desire and ambition for the betterment of the wronged? I buy nice things. I lead a nice life. I want to see the world and eat good things. A few miles away guys my age are barely surviving. They are forced into crime because my parents stood idly by as their peers persecuted these guys' parents. Do I have a right to these nice things in life when it comes off the back of all that? * I had meningitis when I was 1 years old, that was 1980. In that day and age, had I been black, I probably wouldn't be here as I wouldn't have got proper medical care which saved my life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Hey Paul - You raise good points. Points that I do not have answers for. Indeed the aboriginals in Canada were treated unfairly - land was taken away and never returned and certainly money was lost. I do not think such things can ever be undone completely. The Canadian government is trying bit by bit to attempt to right things. Will the damage ever be undone? Probably not. I has been almost 60 years since the end of WWII and even now neo-nazi groups are in existence. I think what is important is to educate the young as to what circumstances brought these injustices into existence so that lessons can be learned and mistakes not repeated. If that can be considered as payoff of some of the debt, then maybe in some small way everyone is better off as a result. I really don't know. :confused: John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
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There is one big problem though. The debt of the children. There is no doubt that I directly benefited from Apartheid. I received education that non-whites of my age were refused. I received health care* that they did not. My home situation was far better. I had a nice house, my parents had good jobs, we ate well and I got to play in nice jungle gyms. All the while black kids my age got none of that. Thanks to all that I have grown up better situated to earn a living and live in this world. In this year 2004, 10 years after apartheid officially ended, black guys of my age are still worse off than I am. Because they are black and for no other reason. So now I have to live with this. And Gemans have to live with the fact that many aspects, good and bad, of their life are as they are because of what Hitler did. A Jew may have their job right now had the Jews' grandparents or parents not being persecuted. Your ancestors persecuted the Native North Americans hundreds of years ago. Long before apartheid. Long before Hitler. From what little I know there are still Native American problems, claims and such being made for the return of homeland and monetary debt to be paid. So when is the debt paid? Is there a debt to pay? How many generations, if any at all, must pay? I personally have to just live with it and treat it as a "well, what if?" It's harsh but I am no good to South Africa if I grind to a halt in a haze of guilt and self hatred. Should I though go further and sacrifice my life to the righting of past wrongs? Subsume all personal desire and ambition for the betterment of the wronged? I buy nice things. I lead a nice life. I want to see the world and eat good things. A few miles away guys my age are barely surviving. They are forced into crime because my parents stood idly by as their peers persecuted these guys' parents. Do I have a right to these nice things in life when it comes off the back of all that? * I had meningitis when I was 1 years old, that was 1980. In that day and age, had I been black, I probably wouldn't be here as I wouldn't have got proper medical care which saved my life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Very good points Paul. My 5 I can say the same about most of the issues you state. I was born 8+ week premature with underdeveloped lungs and barely 4 lbs (which I did not maintain) in 1954 not to many made it. If I had been black or native I likely would not have. Also I agree with how many generations? As stated I benefited by my race, but I can also point out that many of my ancestors held the belief that man was equal independant of race, and died for their beliefs. So does that make up for me, even though I clearly benefited? There simply is no one answer. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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pseudonym67 wrote: So should Hitler be seen as a person? I was pondering a similar thougth when i read an article about the movie. Will i watch the movie? i probably would. I have already seen programs on the history chanel about terrible leaders(stalin, hitler, czars of russ,saddam,the guys from cambodia,king john ill:) of NK). Hitler is certainly human,and many humans in the right conditions would easily rise/drop to his level. The problem is, there are many dickheads out there who would misunderstand such portrayals or misuse them to discredit the history. Today in some parts of America it's fashionable to fly the confederate flag, and people are ones again proud of their ancestors who shared those terrible beliefs and want monuments to them. Will there come a time when it will be ok to admire your nazi ancestors? Bottom line is, out of intellectual curiosity, i wouldn't mind seeing hitler or any other 'ivan the terrible',for all they are(monsters,humans,geniuses..). Don't however ask me to tell that to a concentration camp survivor. Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
Or wear Che Guevara t-shirts, carry hammer and sickle emblazoned handbags or have KKK tatoos. All fun and games, Che looks enigmatic and charming, it's cool to have him on your t-shirt. He was a freedom fighter man! uhuh. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: From what I see he was one of the most charismatic leaders of the last century. Are you suggesting that clinton is hitler incarnate?:) Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: Are you suggesting that clinton is hitler incarnate? NO I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: From what I see he was one of the most charismatic leaders of the last century. Are you suggesting that clinton is hitler incarnate?:) Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
Actually, you here a lot of people saying bush isn't too smart, but he's real "charismatic". Hmm... I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
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Hey Paul - You raise good points. Points that I do not have answers for. Indeed the aboriginals in Canada were treated unfairly - land was taken away and never returned and certainly money was lost. I do not think such things can ever be undone completely. The Canadian government is trying bit by bit to attempt to right things. Will the damage ever be undone? Probably not. I has been almost 60 years since the end of WWII and even now neo-nazi groups are in existence. I think what is important is to educate the young as to what circumstances brought these injustices into existence so that lessons can be learned and mistakes not repeated. If that can be considered as payoff of some of the debt, then maybe in some small way everyone is better off as a result. I really don't know. :confused: John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
John Theal wrote: land was taken away and never returned and certainly money was lost. I don't think anyone who didn't participate in any of those actions has anything to be guilty of. We live in a rather unique period in time, it seems people have being treating each other like crap for a long time. It just so happened that the acts that we're most concious of happened to converge with our modern time. If you're a decent humanbeing who isn't preoccupied with preying on others, you have nothing to be ashame of. Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
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I've had the a similar experience with a German girl I "dated". Like John Cleese says in Fawlty Towers; Don't mention the war! I tried a few times and all her answers were either thin lipped and terse as only a German can do or full on rants about the world labelling her, for being German, a killer. In retrospect I see her reactions are similar to mine when people ask me about apartheid in South Africa. I am white and was born in 1979 so had some part in it. People want to know how I could do what we did, or how I could have stood idly by. And it's hard to discuss it frankly and dispassionately*. Partly because I'm used to being judged before I open my mouth. Partly because I am ashamed. Partly because I simply was unaware of what the hell was going on and that's no good either. It's hard to reconcile something that people have already pigeonholed for you. * That is the hard bit. To talk about it dispassionately. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
On a lighter note - I have a question for you. I will, of course, feel a right tool after asking. However, I will understand how you feel because it's probably the same way I feel when Europeans ask me about the dangers of bears and wild animals in the Canadian forests. Anyways - Say you go hiking in the wilderness outside of the largers cities in South Africa (do people even do this??) are lions/other creatures a valid concern? Also, is South Africa warm all year round? Is it a nice place to live? Right, now that I've made an ass of myself, I'll wait for my answers. :-D John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
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Or wear Che Guevara t-shirts, carry hammer and sickle emblazoned handbags or have KKK tatoos. All fun and games, Che looks enigmatic and charming, it's cool to have him on your t-shirt. He was a freedom fighter man! uhuh. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
I know, every now and then i run across those characters. Usually i am the one who feels embarace for them. Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
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John Theal wrote: land was taken away and never returned and certainly money was lost. I don't think anyone who didn't participate in any of those actions has anything to be guilty of. We live in a rather unique period in time, it seems people have being treating each other like crap for a long time. It just so happened that the acts that we're most concious of happened to converge with our modern time. If you're a decent humanbeing who isn't preoccupied with preying on others, you have nothing to be ashame of. Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
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There is one big problem though. The debt of the children. There is no doubt that I directly benefited from Apartheid. I received education that non-whites of my age were refused. I received health care* that they did not. My home situation was far better. I had a nice house, my parents had good jobs, we ate well and I got to play in nice jungle gyms. All the while black kids my age got none of that. Thanks to all that I have grown up better situated to earn a living and live in this world. In this year 2004, 10 years after apartheid officially ended, black guys of my age are still worse off than I am. Because they are black and for no other reason. So now I have to live with this. And Gemans have to live with the fact that many aspects, good and bad, of their life are as they are because of what Hitler did. A Jew may have their job right now had the Jews' grandparents or parents not being persecuted. Your ancestors persecuted the Native North Americans hundreds of years ago. Long before apartheid. Long before Hitler. From what little I know there are still Native American problems, claims and such being made for the return of homeland and monetary debt to be paid. So when is the debt paid? Is there a debt to pay? How many generations, if any at all, must pay? I personally have to just live with it and treat it as a "well, what if?" It's harsh but I am no good to South Africa if I grind to a halt in a haze of guilt and self hatred. Should I though go further and sacrifice my life to the righting of past wrongs? Subsume all personal desire and ambition for the betterment of the wronged? I buy nice things. I lead a nice life. I want to see the world and eat good things. A few miles away guys my age are barely surviving. They are forced into crime because my parents stood idly by as their peers persecuted these guys' parents. Do I have a right to these nice things in life when it comes off the back of all that? * I had meningitis when I was 1 years old, that was 1980. In that day and age, had I been black, I probably wouldn't be here as I wouldn't have got proper medical care which saved my life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
No one has a right to the situation they were raised in, whether it is good or bad. What happened in the world to put it in the place it was when you were born can hardly be considered. Debt can really only be paid back directly from offender to victim. I'm not saying you shouldn't reach out and help people up, but it's best not to look at it as payment for someone elses past wrong, but rather just helping someone out who needs it. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
On a lighter note - I have a question for you. I will, of course, feel a right tool after asking. However, I will understand how you feel because it's probably the same way I feel when Europeans ask me about the dangers of bears and wild animals in the Canadian forests. Anyways - Say you go hiking in the wilderness outside of the largers cities in South Africa (do people even do this??) are lions/other creatures a valid concern? Also, is South Africa warm all year round? Is it a nice place to live? Right, now that I've made an ass of myself, I'll wait for my answers. :-D John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
Very dangerous, baas. Master no go into jungle alone. ;) South Africa is really tame compared to the rest of Africa. There are no wild lions or cheetahs or tigers... wait, we don't have those at all... roaming the bush. They are all locked up in game reserves. The rest of the land is farm land or industrial. More chance of getting bitten by a shark than a lion here in S.A (unless you are one of those tourists who get out of game vechiles or climb over fences and try to pet the nice yet surprisingly hungry kitty for the photop.) Far more danger from our fellow man in S.A. than wild jungle kings. And we have about a kilometer strip of jungle in the whole of S.A. Mainly grassland ("veld" in the local lingo). :) Over the border into Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique it gets a bit more dicey, but not a helluva lot. In Namibia you'll die of thirst in the dunes before you get bitten by anything or die in a car accident on their crazy roads. About the only time you need to worry is if you are on a dam or lake with hippo (crocodiles are pretty harmless if you practice common sense). Hippos are dangerous, kill more people every year than crocs, lions or snakes. I've had a few scares with hippos on Kariba in Zim. And I once got sunburnt on a dam in S.A. while my uncle got pricked by a guppie and his thumb swelled up, dangerous fish those, damned guppies. :-D I guess snakes can be a danger, though I personally have never had trouble with them on any of the hikes I have done. Chris will tell you Australia is far worse for snakes and spiders. The cities are more dangerous here. Really, practice safe se... I mean common sense and you won't get in trouble. As for the weather it's pretty grand all year round at sea level (winter just past the coldest it got here in Cape Town was 2 celcius and that was at night with a stiff breeze while going down hill.) In the interior it can get pretty cold during winter, -15 celcius being about the coldest I have ever seen and that was in some pon dokie town in the middle of nowhere (called Sutherland, hottest and coldest inhabited place in S.A). But I'd say -4 is generally the coldest it gets in populated interior regions. It snows on the tops of mountains. I wear a t-shirt and shorts all year round, though I'm a bit weird. A jersey and some jeans will get you by fine. So how are them bears like in Canada, eh? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Ga
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I know, every now and then i run across those characters. Usually i am the one who feels embarace for them. Looking for me in cyberspace? I am the electron with the red hat, occupying 3rd sit on the left of the data bus. by the way, perl stinks. "I believe god invented man, because he was disappointed in the monkey" Mark Twain
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No one has a right to the situation they were raised in, whether it is good or bad. What happened in the world to put it in the place it was when you were born can hardly be considered. Debt can really only be paid back directly from offender to victim. I'm not saying you shouldn't reach out and help people up, but it's best not to look at it as payment for someone elses past wrong, but rather just helping someone out who needs it. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
I've had the a similar experience with a German girl I "dated". Like John Cleese says in Fawlty Towers; Don't mention the war! I tried a few times and all her answers were either thin lipped and terse as only a German can do or full on rants about the world labelling her, for being German, a killer. In retrospect I see her reactions are similar to mine when people ask me about apartheid in South Africa. I am white and was born in 1979 so had some part in it. People want to know how I could do what we did, or how I could have stood idly by. And it's hard to discuss it frankly and dispassionately*. Partly because I'm used to being judged before I open my mouth. Partly because I am ashamed. Partly because I simply was unaware of what the hell was going on and that's no good either. It's hard to reconcile something that people have already pigeonholed for you. * That is the hard bit. To talk about it dispassionately. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
The other thing to remember is that history is written by the victors. While this in no way excuses the Nazis for what they did, what is the one time in history you hear very little about? Answer: the post-war time in Europe. We never hear about millions of German POW's - regular army - not the Nazi's that starved to death due to lack of food in the holding camps. The Allies were not so kind to the Germans after the war, justifyiably some might say, but still if we took our piece of flesh then, then I think Germans have paid enough and shouldn't be labeled.
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Very dangerous, baas. Master no go into jungle alone. ;) South Africa is really tame compared to the rest of Africa. There are no wild lions or cheetahs or tigers... wait, we don't have those at all... roaming the bush. They are all locked up in game reserves. The rest of the land is farm land or industrial. More chance of getting bitten by a shark than a lion here in S.A (unless you are one of those tourists who get out of game vechiles or climb over fences and try to pet the nice yet surprisingly hungry kitty for the photop.) Far more danger from our fellow man in S.A. than wild jungle kings. And we have about a kilometer strip of jungle in the whole of S.A. Mainly grassland ("veld" in the local lingo). :) Over the border into Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique it gets a bit more dicey, but not a helluva lot. In Namibia you'll die of thirst in the dunes before you get bitten by anything or die in a car accident on their crazy roads. About the only time you need to worry is if you are on a dam or lake with hippo (crocodiles are pretty harmless if you practice common sense). Hippos are dangerous, kill more people every year than crocs, lions or snakes. I've had a few scares with hippos on Kariba in Zim. And I once got sunburnt on a dam in S.A. while my uncle got pricked by a guppie and his thumb swelled up, dangerous fish those, damned guppies. :-D I guess snakes can be a danger, though I personally have never had trouble with them on any of the hikes I have done. Chris will tell you Australia is far worse for snakes and spiders. The cities are more dangerous here. Really, practice safe se... I mean common sense and you won't get in trouble. As for the weather it's pretty grand all year round at sea level (winter just past the coldest it got here in Cape Town was 2 celcius and that was at night with a stiff breeze while going down hill.) In the interior it can get pretty cold during winter, -15 celcius being about the coldest I have ever seen and that was in some pon dokie town in the middle of nowhere (called Sutherland, hottest and coldest inhabited place in S.A). But I'd say -4 is generally the coldest it gets in populated interior regions. It snows on the tops of mountains. I wear a t-shirt and shorts all year round, though I'm a bit weird. A jersey and some jeans will get you by fine. So how are them bears like in Canada, eh? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Ga
Da bears in Canada, eh? Pretty harmless, except for the grizzlies and polar bears. Although where I lived neither of those were a problem. Grizzlies can be quite frightening. Alot of people have specially trained dogs that accompany them in the woods in order to alert to the presence of the bears. Polar bears are quite menacing. They are known to track humans across the arctic for days. Where I lived, we had black bears and some brown bears. Black bears are only dangerous if they have young cubs around or are hungry or startled. Once or twice I managed to run into one or two of them while cycling mountain bike trails in the bush. I was never attacked. The university I was working at had extensive wilderness on campus filled with blueberries that would attract the bears. They can be unnerving and campus security always posted warning of sightings. Generally when a bear becomes a 'nuisance bear' and keeps venturing into the city, the Ministry of Natural Resources comes and traps and then relocates the bear. It is not uncommon for the bear to make his way back to town and become a re-offender. They come for the McDonald's grease bins. One of the more frightening things are cougars. There have been several sightings and these are large cats than can be quite dangerous and are known to attack humans. I used to have to walk a wilderness trail to get home from the university - which was generally at night. During one period of frequent cougar sightings I used to have to walk (translation:run really fast) this damned trail late at night all the time. I was always a bit uneasy about that. We also have a poisonous species of snake. I had encountered wolves before but at the time I had a Black Labrador retriever and a German Shepard and (fortunately) wasn't bothered by them. They can be intimidating. Curious uh, I mean randy moose can also pose a problem to cyclists. :suss: Aside from that it's pretty tame! Temperatures are not worth noting or experiencing. Probably more dangerous than animals. I have experienced -40C (no wind-chill) and that is not fun - it's quite life-threatening. Ah home.... John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
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I've had the a similar experience with a German girl I "dated". Like John Cleese says in Fawlty Towers; Don't mention the war! I tried a few times and all her answers were either thin lipped and terse as only a German can do or full on rants about the world labelling her, for being German, a killer. In retrospect I see her reactions are similar to mine when people ask me about apartheid in South Africa. I am white and was born in 1979 so had some part in it. People want to know how I could do what we did, or how I could have stood idly by. And it's hard to discuss it frankly and dispassionately*. Partly because I'm used to being judged before I open my mouth. Partly because I am ashamed. Partly because I simply was unaware of what the hell was going on and that's no good either. It's hard to reconcile something that people have already pigeonholed for you. * That is the hard bit. To talk about it dispassionately. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Gassho rei, Watson-san!" Crikey! ain't life grand?
I'm half German, and apart from enduring speechs from my grandmother about how Hitler may have been mean to Jews, but he did wonders for the road system, I don't have any hangups about discussing it. I guess because I did not grow up there, I don't consider myself German, as such. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Da bears in Canada, eh? Pretty harmless, except for the grizzlies and polar bears. Although where I lived neither of those were a problem. Grizzlies can be quite frightening. Alot of people have specially trained dogs that accompany them in the woods in order to alert to the presence of the bears. Polar bears are quite menacing. They are known to track humans across the arctic for days. Where I lived, we had black bears and some brown bears. Black bears are only dangerous if they have young cubs around or are hungry or startled. Once or twice I managed to run into one or two of them while cycling mountain bike trails in the bush. I was never attacked. The university I was working at had extensive wilderness on campus filled with blueberries that would attract the bears. They can be unnerving and campus security always posted warning of sightings. Generally when a bear becomes a 'nuisance bear' and keeps venturing into the city, the Ministry of Natural Resources comes and traps and then relocates the bear. It is not uncommon for the bear to make his way back to town and become a re-offender. They come for the McDonald's grease bins. One of the more frightening things are cougars. There have been several sightings and these are large cats than can be quite dangerous and are known to attack humans. I used to have to walk a wilderness trail to get home from the university - which was generally at night. During one period of frequent cougar sightings I used to have to walk (translation:run really fast) this damned trail late at night all the time. I was always a bit uneasy about that. We also have a poisonous species of snake. I had encountered wolves before but at the time I had a Black Labrador retriever and a German Shepard and (fortunately) wasn't bothered by them. They can be intimidating. Curious uh, I mean randy moose can also pose a problem to cyclists. :suss: Aside from that it's pretty tame! Temperatures are not worth noting or experiencing. Probably more dangerous than animals. I have experienced -40C (no wind-chill) and that is not fun - it's quite life-threatening. Ah home.... John Theal Physicist at Large Got CAD? http://www.presenter3d.com[^]
I've been in cougar country at night lots of times, and I've seen mountain lion tracks in my own yard. Can be scary to think about, but I'm used to it. Interestingly, although I've seen plenty of tracks, I've never actually seen a wild cougar. It's rare to see them unless they want you to. I used to have to walk (translation:run really fast) this damned trail late at night all the time. Not smart to run - cats have an instinct that tells them that if something is running and it's not substantially bigger than them, that it's potential food and they should chase it. IMO better to walk and be on the trail longer than to run and risk triggering this instinct.
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower -
I'll put this in here as there could be strong opinions. Basically there's a new film about the last days of the third reich which shows a personal side to Adolf Hitler. See here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3663044.stm[^] So should Hitler be seen as a person? pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
He was a person, screwed up as he was. There's no good reason to oppose a film that shows his personal side, as long as it sticks to the facts. Maybe it will help us better understand the history of the situation, and give us insights that could help us prevent such a situation from occurring again.
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower -
Very dangerous, baas. Master no go into jungle alone. ;) South Africa is really tame compared to the rest of Africa. There are no wild lions or cheetahs or tigers... wait, we don't have those at all... roaming the bush. They are all locked up in game reserves. The rest of the land is farm land or industrial. More chance of getting bitten by a shark than a lion here in S.A (unless you are one of those tourists who get out of game vechiles or climb over fences and try to pet the nice yet surprisingly hungry kitty for the photop.) Far more danger from our fellow man in S.A. than wild jungle kings. And we have about a kilometer strip of jungle in the whole of S.A. Mainly grassland ("veld" in the local lingo). :) Over the border into Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique it gets a bit more dicey, but not a helluva lot. In Namibia you'll die of thirst in the dunes before you get bitten by anything or die in a car accident on their crazy roads. About the only time you need to worry is if you are on a dam or lake with hippo (crocodiles are pretty harmless if you practice common sense). Hippos are dangerous, kill more people every year than crocs, lions or snakes. I've had a few scares with hippos on Kariba in Zim. And I once got sunburnt on a dam in S.A. while my uncle got pricked by a guppie and his thumb swelled up, dangerous fish those, damned guppies. :-D I guess snakes can be a danger, though I personally have never had trouble with them on any of the hikes I have done. Chris will tell you Australia is far worse for snakes and spiders. The cities are more dangerous here. Really, practice safe se... I mean common sense and you won't get in trouble. As for the weather it's pretty grand all year round at sea level (winter just past the coldest it got here in Cape Town was 2 celcius and that was at night with a stiff breeze while going down hill.) In the interior it can get pretty cold during winter, -15 celcius being about the coldest I have ever seen and that was in some pon dokie town in the middle of nowhere (called Sutherland, hottest and coldest inhabited place in S.A). But I'd say -4 is generally the coldest it gets in populated interior regions. It snows on the tops of mountains. I wear a t-shirt and shorts all year round, though I'm a bit weird. A jersey and some jeans will get you by fine. So how are them bears like in Canada, eh? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: "Ga
John, you can tell Paul grew up in a city ;) I grew up on a normal farm, not a game reserve or any such thing. We had a large population of leopard in the area. I once was camping alone with my dogs, when a leopard came up to the tent. The dogs refused to go outside, and were quivering. I only had a little .22 rifle with me. I sang in a loud voice and generally made a lot of noise. The next morning my suspicions were confirmed when I saw a fresh leopard stool outside the tent. I have many such stories. While lion were not permanent residents on the farm, they did pass through. When they did we didn't ride horses or motorbikes until we were sure they had passed. Hippo's passed through more often, sometimes wreaking havoc with crops. We had leopard take goats and young calves on occasion, but never went after them. After all - the wildlife was the reason we loved that farm in the mountains so much. Changing from farming to ecotourism was easy in fact, with our main market being other Saffa's from the cities. Even though SA is their home country area's such as the one I was fortunate to grow up in were unusual to them, and just like foreign tourists they'd try to bring their expensive BMW's down our dusty roads :-D Whether talking about people or the country itself, it's almost impossible to describe every aspect. Makes it all the more worthwhile to visit :)
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography -
John, you can tell Paul grew up in a city ;) I grew up on a normal farm, not a game reserve or any such thing. We had a large population of leopard in the area. I once was camping alone with my dogs, when a leopard came up to the tent. The dogs refused to go outside, and were quivering. I only had a little .22 rifle with me. I sang in a loud voice and generally made a lot of noise. The next morning my suspicions were confirmed when I saw a fresh leopard stool outside the tent. I have many such stories. While lion were not permanent residents on the farm, they did pass through. When they did we didn't ride horses or motorbikes until we were sure they had passed. Hippo's passed through more often, sometimes wreaking havoc with crops. We had leopard take goats and young calves on occasion, but never went after them. After all - the wildlife was the reason we loved that farm in the mountains so much. Changing from farming to ecotourism was easy in fact, with our main market being other Saffa's from the cities. Even though SA is their home country area's such as the one I was fortunate to grow up in were unusual to them, and just like foreign tourists they'd try to bring their expensive BMW's down our dusty roads :-D Whether talking about people or the country itself, it's almost impossible to describe every aspect. Makes it all the more worthwhile to visit :)
Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography