more about anti republican propaganda in the EU
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Just for the taste - to understand why Europeans behave the way they do. Yesterday, major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television. In Austria, local officials are thinking about renaming the footbal stadion that's named after Arnold Schwarzenegger because he supported Bush. In Vienna Arnold's monument was planned. But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. That's the extent of antiami propaganda in everyday life. I do hope they at least stop after wednesday. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: Yesterday, major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television. So what? The movie is not forbidden. Do you want censorship?! :doh:
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Tomaž Štih wrote: Yesterday, major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television. So what? The movie is not forbidden. Do you want censorship?! :doh:
Forbidden? What fantasies are you talking about? We're talking about one sided reporting in Europe - about attacking some political option and not letting it defend itself. About airing pure propaganda movie for one side last evening before election silence on major European goverment networks. Tomaz
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Forbidden? What fantasies are you talking about? We're talking about one sided reporting in Europe - about attacking some political option and not letting it defend itself. About airing pure propaganda movie for one side last evening before election silence on major European goverment networks. Tomaz
The election takes place in the USA, not in Austria. The US-citizens living in Austria have already voted. So, what's the problem?
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Just for the taste - to understand why Europeans behave the way they do. Yesterday, major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television. In Austria, local officials are thinking about renaming the footbal stadion that's named after Arnold Schwarzenegger because he supported Bush. In Vienna Arnold's monument was planned. But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. That's the extent of antiami propaganda in everyday life. I do hope they at least stop after wednesday. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: In Austria, local officials are thinking about renaming the footbal stadion that's named after Arnold Schwarzenegger because he supported Bush. Tomaž Štih wrote: In Vienna Arnold's monument was planned. But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. Tomaz, even if those conclusions weren't constructions of your paranoid mind, it is still not anti American to be anti Bush. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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The election takes place in the USA, not in Austria. The US-citizens living in Austria have already voted. So, what's the problem?
European citizens deserve better and more objective reporting. Surely you don't think that the acceptable way to fight G.W.Bush is for the goverments of Europe to lie and spread propaganda to their citizens as they do? It is not about Americans - it is about us deserving better then that. Tomaz
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Tomaž Štih wrote: In Austria, local officials are thinking about renaming the footbal stadion that's named after Arnold Schwarzenegger because he supported Bush. Tomaž Štih wrote: In Vienna Arnold's monument was planned. But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. Tomaz, even if those conclusions weren't constructions of your paranoid mind, it is still not anti American to be anti Bush. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
Of course. This archive[^] showing propaganda month after month after month for several years is just a result of imagination. It did not happen. The front covers are fake, the articles badly translated from German. Libertarians lie - Europeans have the best, most objective media of them all, it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election. It is not propaganda to air election debates on German TV channels for two weeks before US elections every evening showing leftist point of view and telling US citizens in Germany how to vote. In fact, FH911 itself is not propaganda. It is ... err ... a work of art. After all it got a reward and that was not propaganda, was it? The fact that we're letting just one side talk is ...err... protection of highly cultural European people against extremism. Tomaz
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Of course. This archive[^] showing propaganda month after month after month for several years is just a result of imagination. It did not happen. The front covers are fake, the articles badly translated from German. Libertarians lie - Europeans have the best, most objective media of them all, it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election. It is not propaganda to air election debates on German TV channels for two weeks before US elections every evening showing leftist point of view and telling US citizens in Germany how to vote. In fact, FH911 itself is not propaganda. It is ... err ... a work of art. After all it got a reward and that was not propaganda, was it? The fact that we're letting just one side talk is ...err... protection of highly cultural European people against extremism. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: Of course. This archive[^] showing propaganda month after month after month for several years is just a result of imagination. It did not happen. The front covers are fake, the articles badly translated from German. Tomaz, it's a Blog, it's just another piece of the available media in Europe, how do you fail to see, that the fact that you can link to such a site, undermines your conspiracy theory on Leftist Propaganda? Tomaž Štih wrote: it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election. Erh..., it's not actually the Germans that are going to vote is it? "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Of course. This archive[^] showing propaganda month after month after month for several years is just a result of imagination. It did not happen. The front covers are fake, the articles badly translated from German. Libertarians lie - Europeans have the best, most objective media of them all, it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election. It is not propaganda to air election debates on German TV channels for two weeks before US elections every evening showing leftist point of view and telling US citizens in Germany how to vote. In fact, FH911 itself is not propaganda. It is ... err ... a work of art. After all it got a reward and that was not propaganda, was it? The fact that we're letting just one side talk is ...err... protection of highly cultural European people against extremism. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election It might be propoganda to air Fahrenheit 9/11 one night before the election in The United States - but it surely can't be if it's aired outside that country. Do you imagine that your heroes actually give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks? Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My (occasional) blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^]
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Tomaž Štih wrote: Of course. This archive[^] showing propaganda month after month after month for several years is just a result of imagination. It did not happen. The front covers are fake, the articles badly translated from German. Tomaz, it's a Blog, it's just another piece of the available media in Europe, how do you fail to see, that the fact that you can link to such a site, undermines your conspiracy theory on Leftist Propaganda? Tomaž Štih wrote: it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election. Erh..., it's not actually the Germans that are going to vote is it? "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
Existence of one web site is as much of a proof that reporting in Europe concerning US is objective as anti-nazi leaflets were proof that there was no propaganda in nazi Germany. This site with its 100k readers is not a proof for your point, but what's on this site is very strong evidence for mine. Quotes, graphics and articles from mainstream German media that can't be denied. Tomaz
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Tomaž Štih wrote: it is not propaganda to air FH911 one night before the election It might be propoganda to air Fahrenheit 9/11 one night before the election in The United States - but it surely can't be if it's aired outside that country. Do you imagine that your heroes actually give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks? Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My (occasional) blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^]
Do you imagine that your heroes actually give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks? There are 100.000 US voters living in Germany alone. Tomaz
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Just for the taste - to understand why Europeans behave the way they do. Yesterday, major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television. In Austria, local officials are thinking about renaming the footbal stadion that's named after Arnold Schwarzenegger because he supported Bush. In Vienna Arnold's monument was planned. But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. That's the extent of antiami propaganda in everyday life. I do hope they at least stop after wednesday. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television How do their dare to air a movie criticizing your hero? How do they dare to act like free countries? They should be punished for that! Bomb them, invade them! They should only have the right to retransmit Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Fox news should be mandatory for everybody, right? Tomaž Štih wrote: But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. That's the extent of antiami propaganda in everyday life In 2000, Bush wasn't even representative of the majority of American voters. He isn't America. Thanks God!
Fold With Us! "A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances - Georges S. Patton, 1885–1945"
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Tomaž Štih wrote: major goverment media ORF (Austria) and Switzerland was airing Fahrenheit 911 on the television How do their dare to air a movie criticizing your hero? How do they dare to act like free countries? They should be punished for that! Bomb them, invade them! They should only have the right to retransmit Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Fox news should be mandatory for everybody, right? Tomaž Štih wrote: But will likely not be erected because he supported Bush. That's the extent of antiami propaganda in everyday life In 2000, Bush wasn't even representative of the majority of American voters. He isn't America. Thanks God!
Fold With Us! "A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances - Georges S. Patton, 1885–1945"
K(arl) wrote: How do their dare to air a movie criticizing your hero? How do they dare to act like free countries? They should be punished for that! Bomb them, invade them! They should only have the right to retransmit Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Fox news should be mandatory for everybody, right? No. That's you trying to create a fog so that we would start talking about my non-existing censorship fantasies instead of very real and existing single-sided reporting. Tomaz
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European citizens deserve better and more objective reporting. Surely you don't think that the acceptable way to fight G.W.Bush is for the goverments of Europe to lie and spread propaganda to their citizens as they do? It is not about Americans - it is about us deserving better then that. Tomaz
Well I'm sure Fox News would gain a huge following for it's objective reporting if it was aired in the UK. X| Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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European citizens deserve better and more objective reporting. Surely you don't think that the acceptable way to fight G.W.Bush is for the goverments of Europe to lie and spread propaganda to their citizens as they do? It is not about Americans - it is about us deserving better then that. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: Surely you don't think that the acceptable way to fight G.W.Bush is for the goverments of Europe to lie and spread propaganda to their citizens as they do? What lies are you talking about? And for your information: The Danish government has it's tongue firmly placed in the butt of the Bush, and we're actually part of Europe. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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K(arl) wrote: How do their dare to air a movie criticizing your hero? How do they dare to act like free countries? They should be punished for that! Bomb them, invade them! They should only have the right to retransmit Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Fox news should be mandatory for everybody, right? No. That's you trying to create a fog so that we would start talking about my non-existing censorship fantasies instead of very real and existing single-sided reporting. Tomaz
I hate to tell you but all commercial news is one sided, it's side being that of it's owners and shareholders. News companies are there to make money not disseminate information you pillock, and they will aim their news at what they believe to be their target audience to make their advertising space etc more valuable by having a wider audience/readership. European news is not there to provide American's overseas a constructive method of judging and making their vote for the candidate of their choice. You appear in fact completely mental and unrepresentative of the opinion of any other european I know, did you leave the tin-foil hat at home again this morning again Tomaz? You really should know better by now Rhys A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk I have a workstation... Vampireware /n/, a project, capable of sucking the lifeblood out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it, which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless refuses to die.
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K(arl) wrote: How do their dare to air a movie criticizing your hero? How do they dare to act like free countries? They should be punished for that! Bomb them, invade them! They should only have the right to retransmit Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Fox news should be mandatory for everybody, right? No. That's you trying to create a fog so that we would start talking about my non-existing censorship fantasies instead of very real and existing single-sided reporting. Tomaz
And you don't create fog when you assimilate anti-bush to anti-America? Or as you take some examples and generalize to all European media? Or when talking about censorhip, as if there were an european censor who was cutting into TV programs? You are claiming because media are biased then people are anti-bush. I rather believe that because people are anti-bush media are biased. Are some media obviously subjective? Yes, of course. In France, TF1, the commercial, right wing supportive, channel is clearly anti-bush. You speak about Austrian governmental TV: who leads current Austrian government, a right wing or a left wing party? Is Schüssel a socialist? In Switzerland, is Joseph Deiss a left winger? So it seems anti-bush campaigns are rather the fact of the right wing than the left wing. How do you put that together with you anti-left hatred?
Fold With Us! "A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances - Georges S. Patton, 1885–1945"
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I hate to tell you but all commercial news is one sided, it's side being that of it's owners and shareholders. News companies are there to make money not disseminate information you pillock, and they will aim their news at what they believe to be their target audience to make their advertising space etc more valuable by having a wider audience/readership. European news is not there to provide American's overseas a constructive method of judging and making their vote for the candidate of their choice. You appear in fact completely mental and unrepresentative of the opinion of any other european I know, did you leave the tin-foil hat at home again this morning again Tomaz? You really should know better by now Rhys A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk I have a workstation... Vampireware /n/, a project, capable of sucking the lifeblood out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it, which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless refuses to die.
In most European countries we have so called "national media". This is commonly a television and a radio controlled by the goverment. Im not saying this works but these should report objectively. As for the free market newspapers I completely agree with you about the mechanisms in place. I'd just like to emphasize that it is the chicken and egg problem. Do you first have an opinion and you then want to listen to certain news or does the media convince you and then you shape your own opinion (...and want to listen to certain news). Market sentiment might change is attacked with the correct marketing tool. Look at these debates here. I opened three different threads and they are all full of people discussing issues I set forward. Don't tell me that people would not watch shows in which they would actually have a dialog with someone who disagrees. That's more motivating then monologues of always the same so called "experts" (typically leftist professors boasting phrases no different from those that Soviet propaganda emitted 30 years ago). I'm doing my part. I'm indeed writing to newspapers about this problem. It's not easy though. Tomaz
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And you don't create fog when you assimilate anti-bush to anti-America? Or as you take some examples and generalize to all European media? Or when talking about censorhip, as if there were an european censor who was cutting into TV programs? You are claiming because media are biased then people are anti-bush. I rather believe that because people are anti-bush media are biased. Are some media obviously subjective? Yes, of course. In France, TF1, the commercial, right wing supportive, channel is clearly anti-bush. You speak about Austrian governmental TV: who leads current Austrian government, a right wing or a left wing party? Is Schüssel a socialist? In Switzerland, is Joseph Deiss a left winger? So it seems anti-bush campaigns are rather the fact of the right wing than the left wing. How do you put that together with you anti-left hatred?
Fold With Us! "A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances - Georges S. Patton, 1885–1945"
K(arl) wrote: How do you put that together with you anti-left hatred? Exactly, Europe has turned to the right side the last couple of years, so it's quite hard to take the boy crying 'Communist' even slightly serious. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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K(arl) wrote: How do you put that together with you anti-left hatred? Exactly, Europe has turned to the right side the last couple of years, so it's quite hard to take the boy crying 'Communist' even slightly serious. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
Nonsense. Europe is as etatist and statist as it ever was; most countries have high taxes, big goverments, they subvention farmers, they support "special national" industries, and they have overprotected labour markets. Not all of them though. For example, Ireland is one of the world's most competitive environment and has top EFW (Economic Freedom of the World) rating, while Germany is rotten, non competitive, high taxes, big goverment social tyranny lead by the red-green coalition. Europe is diverse. But overall socialists are the second largest group in Euro Parliament, together with liberals (which are quite left in ami terms) they hold the majority. I attribute your opinion on this matter to you lefties anyway always try to victimize yourself; now you're opressed gays, now you're opressed socialists, now you're opressed poor...it's modus operandi of left propaganda. Tomaz
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Nonsense. Europe is as etatist and statist as it ever was; most countries have high taxes, big goverments, they subvention farmers, they support "special national" industries, and they have overprotected labour markets. Not all of them though. For example, Ireland is one of the world's most competitive environment and has top EFW (Economic Freedom of the World) rating, while Germany is rotten, non competitive, high taxes, big goverment social tyranny lead by the red-green coalition. Europe is diverse. But overall socialists are the second largest group in Euro Parliament, together with liberals (which are quite left in ami terms) they hold the majority. I attribute your opinion on this matter to you lefties anyway always try to victimize yourself; now you're opressed gays, now you're opressed socialists, now you're opressed poor...it's modus operandi of left propaganda. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: Europe is as etatist and statist as it ever was; most countries have high taxes, big goverments, they subvention farmers, they support "special national" industries, and they have overprotected labour markets You make the confusion between "libertarian" and "right wing". Farmers subventions are defended here by the conservatives, not the left wing. For the last 20 years, taxes were raised by right wing governments, and decreased by left wing ones (except the last 3 years where some taxes were reduced by Chirac's prime minister, but for the wealthiest ones and without any good consequence on the economy). Tomaž Štih wrote: For example, Ireland is one of the world's most competitive environment and has top EFW (Economic Freedom of the World) rating How many billions € is EU giving to Ireland each year? What part of the Irish GDP is made of European subsidies through structural and cohesion funds? What part of EU budget is financed by Germany? Tomaž Štih wrote: you lefties anyway always try to victimize yourself You believe right wing mean freedom? Definitively not! The most "securitarian" laws are always voted by conservative governments. Protection of the individual freedom is not a right wing objective.
Fold With Us! "A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances - Georges S. Patton, 1885–1945"