COTD
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
That's it! I'm moving to Canada. Maybe Australia. I haven't decided yet. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
Frankly, they are both offensive examples of European anti-americanism. To even suggest a comparison between a terrorist and a dove of peace is ludicrous. 1. Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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Frankly, they are both offensive examples of European anti-americanism. To even suggest a comparison between a terrorist and a dove of peace is ludicrous. 1. Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
What terrorist? pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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What terrorist? pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
lets see, the wounded fellow who was shot was among a number of individuals who had been firing on the Marines from that Mosque. Are you asserting that he was an 'innocent worshipper'. Or that he was not a terrorist but rather an 'insurgent'? I don't know how a group of people that have been busy kidnapping and executing civilians, killing other Iraqis with Car Bombs and the like get the label 'insurgent' when their activities are terroristic, but in any case, he was certianly not any kind of peace envoy. What I see is a tremendous double standard: where are the cartoons re: beheadings, execution of women civilians (a CARE worker for christs sake!), summary execution of their own police officers... These folks are not insurgents, thats altogteher too polite a term for them. They are, plain and simple, terrorists who don't want to see any kind of peace in that region. :mad: Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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lets see, the wounded fellow who was shot was among a number of individuals who had been firing on the Marines from that Mosque. Are you asserting that he was an 'innocent worshipper'. Or that he was not a terrorist but rather an 'insurgent'? I don't know how a group of people that have been busy kidnapping and executing civilians, killing other Iraqis with Car Bombs and the like get the label 'insurgent' when their activities are terroristic, but in any case, he was certianly not any kind of peace envoy. What I see is a tremendous double standard: where are the cartoons re: beheadings, execution of women civilians (a CARE worker for christs sake!), summary execution of their own police officers... These folks are not insurgents, thats altogteher too polite a term for them. They are, plain and simple, terrorists who don't want to see any kind of peace in that region. :mad: Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
I agree with Rob. Both stories are completely biased bullshit.
This demographic will quite happily click on shiny things however:laugh:
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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lets see, the wounded fellow who was shot was among a number of individuals who had been firing on the Marines from that Mosque. Are you asserting that he was an 'innocent worshipper'. Or that he was not a terrorist but rather an 'insurgent'? I don't know how a group of people that have been busy kidnapping and executing civilians, killing other Iraqis with Car Bombs and the like get the label 'insurgent' when their activities are terroristic, but in any case, he was certianly not any kind of peace envoy. What I see is a tremendous double standard: where are the cartoons re: beheadings, execution of women civilians (a CARE worker for christs sake!), summary execution of their own police officers... These folks are not insurgents, thats altogteher too polite a term for them. They are, plain and simple, terrorists who don't want to see any kind of peace in that region. :mad: Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
So basically what you are saying is that in a city where no male between the ages of 15-50 was allowed to leave before the attack which many consider to be a war crime in it's own right or at best can be seen as collective punishment. Anyone in that city is a terrorist by your definition. Yet in the thread below you were basically saying that the soldier who shot him shouldn't be condemned without a fair hearing. Odd that. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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So basically what you are saying is that in a city where no male between the ages of 15-50 was allowed to leave before the attack which many consider to be a war crime in it's own right or at best can be seen as collective punishment. Anyone in that city is a terrorist by your definition. Yet in the thread below you were basically saying that the soldier who shot him shouldn't be condemned without a fair hearing. Odd that. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: no male between the ages of 15-50 was allowed to leave before the attack As I recall all citizens were encouraged to leave, men in that age group were screened more carefully, and some detained, but not prohibited from leaving. Considering Fallujas history for the past six months, I would say all remaining were terrorists. pseudonym67 wrote: Yet in the thread below you were basically saying that the soldier who shot him shouldn't be condemned without a fair hearing. Indeed, and I see that cartoon as condeming him without a fair hearing. Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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So we should just pack up and leave it to them? Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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pseudonym67 wrote: no male between the ages of 15-50 was allowed to leave before the attack As I recall all citizens were encouraged to leave, men in that age group were screened more carefully, and some detained, but not prohibited from leaving. Considering Fallujas history for the past six months, I would say all remaining were terrorists. pseudonym67 wrote: Yet in the thread below you were basically saying that the soldier who shot him shouldn't be condemned without a fair hearing. Indeed, and I see that cartoon as condeming him without a fair hearing. Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
11/13/04 "New York Times" -- WASHINGTON, Nov. 12 - Human rights experts said Friday that American soldiers might have committed a war crime on Thursday when they sent fleeing Iraqi civilians back into Falluja. Citing several articles of the Geneva Conventions, the experts said recognized laws of war require military forces to protect civilians as refugees and forbid returning them to a combat zone. "This is highly problematical conduct in terms of exposing people to grave danger by returning them to an area where fighting is going on," said Jordan Paust, a law professor at the University of Houston and a former Army prosecutor. James Ross, senior legal adviser to Human Rights Watch, said, "If that's what happened, it would be a war crime." A stream of refugees, about 300 men, women and children, were detained by American soldiers as they left southern Falluja by car and on foot. The women and children were allowed to proceed. The men were tested for any residues left by the handling of explosives. All tested negative, but they were sent back. A Defense Department spokesman, Lt. Cmdr. Joe Carpenter, defended the actions of American troops in Iraq, saying: "Our forces over there are not haphazardly operating indiscriminately, targeting individuals or civilians. The rules of engagement are researched and vetted, and our forces closely follow them." Because the United States has refused to take part in the International Criminal Court, it is unclear whether American troops could be held accountable. Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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11/13/04 "New York Times" -- WASHINGTON, Nov. 12 - Human rights experts said Friday that American soldiers might have committed a war crime on Thursday when they sent fleeing Iraqi civilians back into Falluja. Citing several articles of the Geneva Conventions, the experts said recognized laws of war require military forces to protect civilians as refugees and forbid returning them to a combat zone. "This is highly problematical conduct in terms of exposing people to grave danger by returning them to an area where fighting is going on," said Jordan Paust, a law professor at the University of Houston and a former Army prosecutor. James Ross, senior legal adviser to Human Rights Watch, said, "If that's what happened, it would be a war crime." A stream of refugees, about 300 men, women and children, were detained by American soldiers as they left southern Falluja by car and on foot. The women and children were allowed to proceed. The men were tested for any residues left by the handling of explosives. All tested negative, but they were sent back. A Defense Department spokesman, Lt. Cmdr. Joe Carpenter, defended the actions of American troops in Iraq, saying: "Our forces over there are not haphazardly operating indiscriminately, targeting individuals or civilians. The rules of engagement are researched and vetted, and our forces closely follow them." Because the United States has refused to take part in the International Criminal Court, it is unclear whether American troops could be held accountable. Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
1. Some portion (even if all the men) of a group of 300 is significantly different from your original assertion of 'all men between 15 and 50'. 2. The Times fails to state why the men were sent back (only that they did not test positive for explosives residue, what other criteria might there have been?). It would appear that the Times did not bother to inquire at the scene as to what the reasons might have been. 3. It also fails to mention that the incident occurred significantly past the announced deadlines for all civilians to leave...in fact 4 days into the fighting. Given that none of the 'insurgents' are wearing uniforms, how would you propose to distinguish them from combatants? Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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So we should just pack up and leave it to them? Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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You're nuts! "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
why? do you think the people trying to kill our soldiers simply want to fight forever and ever like Itchy and Scratchy ? you don't think they just want us out of there so they can take charge of the country themselves? and note that i'm talking about the "insurgents" - people who probably want us out so that they can create some fucked-up Islamic theocratic tyranny like the Taliban. i'm not saying they're the good guys. sheesh Software | Cleek
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No, you didn't. I was being needlessly sarcastic, as your response was really both accurate and reasonable.:rose: Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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why? do you think the people trying to kill our soldiers simply want to fight forever and ever like Itchy and Scratchy ? you don't think they just want us out of there so they can take charge of the country themselves? and note that i'm talking about the "insurgents" - people who probably want us out so that they can create some fucked-up Islamic theocratic tyranny like the Taliban. i'm not saying they're the good guys. sheesh Software | Cleek
They target civilians to instill fear and to intimidate. They do not wear uniforms. They do not have a publicly defined chain of command. They're fucking terrorists by any rational definition. Making any kind of excuse for them is absurd. If all they wanted was us gone and a piece of the political pie the most direct method would be to blend in peacefully for a couple years until we leave then sieze power like Saddam. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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1. Some portion (even if all the men) of a group of 300 is significantly different from your original assertion of 'all men between 15 and 50'. 2. The Times fails to state why the men were sent back (only that they did not test positive for explosives residue, what other criteria might there have been?). It would appear that the Times did not bother to inquire at the scene as to what the reasons might have been. 3. It also fails to mention that the incident occurred significantly past the announced deadlines for all civilians to leave...in fact 4 days into the fighting. Given that none of the 'insurgents' are wearing uniforms, how would you propose to distinguish them from combatants? Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
Right your whole argument coming from the land of guns and self protection is rubbish. Pick any city in America and tell me what the reaction would be if you told the people of that city that they should leave their homes for any reason. Christ you lot pride yourselves on the fact that if your own government tried to do that you'd stand and fight them. So tell me why the Iraqi's are going to react any differently. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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They target civilians to instill fear and to intimidate. They do not wear uniforms. They do not have a publicly defined chain of command. They're fucking terrorists by any rational definition. Making any kind of excuse for them is absurd. If all they wanted was us gone and a piece of the political pie the most direct method would be to blend in peacefully for a couple years until we leave then sieze power like Saddam. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: Making any kind of excuse for them is absurd i'm not making any excuse for them. if you want to have that argument, find someone else. Mike Mullikin wrote: If all they wanted was us gone and a piece of the political pie the most direct method would be to blend in peacefully for a couple years until we leave then sieze power like Saddam. they don't want "a piece". they want the whole fucking pie. and they likely know can't get the whole thing through elections; but if they can manage to chase us out and topple the interim govt, they have a chance at it all. Software | Cleek