COTD
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Making any kind of excuse for them is absurd i'm not making any excuse for them. if you want to have that argument, find someone else. Mike Mullikin wrote: If all they wanted was us gone and a piece of the political pie the most direct method would be to blend in peacefully for a couple years until we leave then sieze power like Saddam. they don't want "a piece". they want the whole fucking pie. and they likely know can't get the whole thing through elections; but if they can manage to chase us out and topple the interim govt, they have a chance at it all. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not making any excuse for them. :~ Seems like you're saying that they are peace-loving Iraqi patriots who want to run the country free of foreign influence. No? How does that square with the fact that they are kidnapping, murdering and bombing civilians? "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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1. Some portion (even if all the men) of a group of 300 is significantly different from your original assertion of 'all men between 15 and 50'. 2. The Times fails to state why the men were sent back (only that they did not test positive for explosives residue, what other criteria might there have been?). It would appear that the Times did not bother to inquire at the scene as to what the reasons might have been. 3. It also fails to mention that the incident occurred significantly past the announced deadlines for all civilians to leave...in fact 4 days into the fighting. Given that none of the 'insurgents' are wearing uniforms, how would you propose to distinguish them from combatants? Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1352849,00.html[^] third paragraph down "Around Falluja, camps have been erected to receive displaced women and children. Men aged 15-50 were not allowed to leave the city, so 150,000 wait in anguish for news of fathers, husbands and sons." pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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Is it your opinion that the "insurgents" are merely patriotic Iraqis fighting the US occupiers for their freedom? If so, why do they target Iraqi civilians? "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Awww whats the matter Mike isn't Chris giving you the argument you wanted? No one but you has suggested that Mike Mullikin wrote: the "insurgents" are merely patriotic Iraqis fighting the US occupiers for their freedom Apart from you. So maybe you should just start answering your own threads. You know talk to someone on your own wavelength.;P pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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What terrorist? pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
...but not a peep about the MURDER of a blindfolded femail captive. Nope, not a word. And the liberal leadership wonder why even folks of their own camp find it difficult to support their most vocal spokesmen...err...women...ummm...jellyfish. Best, Jerry
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1352849,00.html[^] third paragraph down "Around Falluja, camps have been erected to receive displaced women and children. Men aged 15-50 were not allowed to leave the city, so 150,000 wait in anguish for news of fathers, husbands and sons." pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
An 'opinion' piece in the Gaurdian is no what iI am willing to accept as a credible source. You'll have to try harder... Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,14955,1284265,00.html[^] http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2004/11/16/1100574465231.html[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
I thought I heard a grassroots rumor that the Gardian is owned by the French goverment. It is true?
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
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...but not a peep about the MURDER of a blindfolded femail captive. Nope, not a word. And the liberal leadership wonder why even folks of their own camp find it difficult to support their most vocal spokesmen...err...women...ummm...jellyfish. Best, Jerry
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
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Awww whats the matter Mike isn't Chris giving you the argument you wanted? No one but you has suggested that Mike Mullikin wrote: the "insurgents" are merely patriotic Iraqis fighting the US occupiers for their freedom Apart from you. So maybe you should just start answering your own threads. You know talk to someone on your own wavelength.;P pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: No one but you has suggested that... Bullshit! pseudonym67 wrote: Pick any city in America and tell me what the reaction would be if you told the people of that city that they should leave their homes for any reason. Christ you lot pride yourselves on the fact that if your own government tried to do that you'd stand and fight them. So tell me why the Iraqi's are going to react any differently. You made the comparison yourself! "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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I thought I heard a grassroots rumor that the Gardian is owned by the French goverment. It is true?
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/gmgplc/scott/scottintro/[^] pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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That's it! I'm moving to Canada. Maybe Australia. I haven't decided yet. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
Have a safe trip. Don't forget to write. ;P
Paul Lyons, CCPL
Certified Code Project Lurker -
The peace that they want is one where there are no "unbelievers", both arab, and non-arab, anywhere. Taliban the sequel!
Paul Lyons, CCPL
Certified Code Project Lurker -
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not making any excuse for them. :~ Seems like you're saying that they are peace-loving Iraqi patriots who want to run the country free of foreign influence. No? How does that square with the fact that they are kidnapping, murdering and bombing civilians? "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: Seems like you're saying that they are peace-loving Iraqi patriots nope. "peace-loving" is your phrase, not mine. but i don't see how you can reasonably come to any other conclusion that they do want to run the country free of foreign influence - once they've driven us off by whatever means they can muster. and they probably do think of themselves as patriots. Mike Mullikin wrote: How does that square with the fact that they are kidnapping, murdering and bombing civilians? ...civilians who cooperate (in their eyes) with the US or the US-supported government. they aren't just blowing up apartment buildings; they're going after people who they probably see as 'collaberators'. of course it's reprehensible. no question. but, there's a method to their atrocities - it's not simple random murder. but none of this means i approve of anything the insurgents are doing. Software | Cleek
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pseudonym67 wrote: No one but you has suggested that... Bullshit! pseudonym67 wrote: Pick any city in America and tell me what the reaction would be if you told the people of that city that they should leave their homes for any reason. Christ you lot pride yourselves on the fact that if your own government tried to do that you'd stand and fight them. So tell me why the Iraqi's are going to react any differently. You made the comparison yourself! "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: You made the comparison yourself! Oh right sorry I forgot in simple world everything is easy isn't it? Lets see if I can get this. "If one terrorist is in Iraq then all Iraqi's are terrorists." Right I think I'm getting it so the logic goes "If one Iraqi defends their home then all Iraqi's are terrorists" Yeah I'm there now so "If one Iraqi loves their wife and kids then all Iraqi's love terrorists" Whoo Hooo I'm rolling now so "If one Iraqi wears sandals then all Iraqi's terrorize sandals" now wait that's not right, damn. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Seems like you're saying that they are peace-loving Iraqi patriots nope. "peace-loving" is your phrase, not mine. but i don't see how you can reasonably come to any other conclusion that they do want to run the country free of foreign influence - once they've driven us off by whatever means they can muster. and they probably do think of themselves as patriots. Mike Mullikin wrote: How does that square with the fact that they are kidnapping, murdering and bombing civilians? ...civilians who cooperate (in their eyes) with the US or the US-supported government. they aren't just blowing up apartment buildings; they're going after people who they probably see as 'collaberators'. of course it's reprehensible. no question. but, there's a method to their atrocities - it's not simple random murder. but none of this means i approve of anything the insurgents are doing. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i don't see how you can reasonably come to any other conclusion that they do want to run the country free of foreign influence - once they've driven us off by whatever means they can muster. I haven't seen any attempt at government from them. All they have done is kidnap, murder and bomb. Show me one single positive action they have undertaken. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Have a safe trip. Don't forget to write. ;P
Paul Lyons, CCPL
Certified Code Project LurkerPaul Lyons wrote: Have a safe trip. Don't forget to write. :-D Maybe I'll live in Australia for a couple of years ride out my "youth" and then retire in Canada? hhmhmmmmm I'll let you know when I decide.:) Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Chris Losinger wrote: i don't see how you can reasonably come to any other conclusion that they do want to run the country free of foreign influence - once they've driven us off by whatever means they can muster. I haven't seen any attempt at government from them. All they have done is kidnap, murder and bomb. Show me one single positive action they have undertaken. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: Show me one single positive action they have undertaken. positive from who's perspective? i don't think they really care about the average Iraqi, only that they get to control them. i could be wrong - maybe the thousands of insurgents are all simply insane serial killers with rifles and RPGs. odds are against it, but i guess it's possible. Software | Cleek
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Mike Mullikin wrote: You made the comparison yourself! Oh right sorry I forgot in simple world everything is easy isn't it? Lets see if I can get this. "If one terrorist is in Iraq then all Iraqi's are terrorists." Right I think I'm getting it so the logic goes "If one Iraqi defends their home then all Iraqi's are terrorists" Yeah I'm there now so "If one Iraqi loves their wife and kids then all Iraqi's love terrorists" Whoo Hooo I'm rolling now so "If one Iraqi wears sandals then all Iraqi's terrorize sandals" now wait that's not right, damn. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
Now you're just being silly. :rolleyes: This post started with the silly cartoon that shows a US soldier shooting a dove and speaking the same words as the US soldier who shot the injured "insurgent". Since a dove represents peace, the cartoonist (and apparently you) see the "insurgents" as "peace loving" people. After bickering with Rob, you made the comparison of the "insurgents" and Americans being told to leave their homes. Now do you understand why I wrote what I wrote? "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Show me one single positive action they have undertaken. positive from who's perspective? i don't think they really care about the average Iraqi, only that they get to control them. i could be wrong - maybe the thousands of insurgents are all simply insane serial killers with rifles and RPGs. odds are against it, but i guess it's possible. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: maybe the thousands of insurgents are all simply insane serial killers with rifles and RPGs. odds are against it, but i guess it's possible. Or maybe Stan is correct and these particular whack jobs hate western democracy (particularly the US) so much that they take every opportunity to kill and disrupt it. Iraq is a tool not the ultimate goal. If these "insurgents" made any attempt at participation, diplomacy or compromise your opinion might be valid, but so far they're just fucking terrorists. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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lets see, the wounded fellow who was shot was among a number of individuals who had been firing on the Marines from that Mosque. Are you asserting that he was an 'innocent worshipper'. Or that he was not a terrorist but rather an 'insurgent'? I don't know how a group of people that have been busy kidnapping and executing civilians, killing other Iraqis with Car Bombs and the like get the label 'insurgent' when their activities are terroristic, but in any case, he was certianly not any kind of peace envoy. What I see is a tremendous double standard: where are the cartoons re: beheadings, execution of women civilians (a CARE worker for christs sake!), summary execution of their own police officers... These folks are not insurgents, thats altogteher too polite a term for them. They are, plain and simple, terrorists who don't want to see any kind of peace in that region. :mad: Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
Rob Graham wrote: where are the cartoons re: beheadings, execution of women civilians (a CARE worker for christs sake!), summary execution of their own police officers... Check out Iraqi Idol[^] or how about esp. their Execusions section[^]:cool: or how about US's Secret Weapon[^]:cool: Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Paul Lyons wrote: Have a safe trip. Don't forget to write. :-D Maybe I'll live in Australia for a couple of years ride out my "youth" and then retire in Canada? hhmhmmmmm I'll let you know when I decide.:) Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest