US 'alienating' world's Muslims
-
And what is wrong with the American Way??? In a retrospect, there is nothing wrong. Things have gone seriously wrong because of US playing "wars" with countries thousands of times weaker and cannot defend. You talk of solutions. Here is solution, take your forces out Arab countries, STOP supporting corrupt regimes in Muslim countries (you supported and armed Saddam), leave Afghanistan, take your puppet regimes out, stop unconditional (criminal) support of israel. There. Thats the solution. Muslims dont hate you, just your deeds that are hurting Muslims day and night.
Anonymous Friend wrote: Things have gone seriously wrong because of US playing "wars" with countries thousands of times weaker and cannot defend. You talk of solutions. Here is solution, take your forces out Arab countries, STOP supporting corrupt regimes in Muslim countries (you supported and armed Saddam), leave Afghanistan, take your puppet regimes out, stop unconditional (criminal) support of israel. There. Thats the solution. Muslims dont hate you, just your deeds that are hurting Muslims day and night. Unfortunantly, none of that is true. Your silly medieval "civilization" is finally imploding upon itself and you are looking for people to blame - and the US is simply the biggest target. The dark age mentality of Islam has no place in the modern world and it is lashing out in its death throes. Anything the US does, or could do, will be interpreted by one looney Muslim faction or another as an attempt to "hurt Muslims". Even if we did every thing you just suggested. The truth is there is nothing we can do to stop what is coming out of the Islamic world. All we can really do is attempt to manage the inevitable collapse as it occurs.
-
Fair enough but don't go and say that it was a BBC report and so the British government is involved and trying to tell the public something. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Let's just say that it is my personal belief is that behind the scenes, civil servents not affiliated with the BBC can suggest certain stories be floated. This story sounds somewhat correct - but I just do not trust the Pentagon and what the mainstream media parrots say anymore. They may be trying to build up credibility for some new set of lies, this may be a set up for some other spin that that want to play, possibly in Iran. Whatever it is it is not designed to inform the public.
Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. - Schopenhauer
-
Stan you are a perfect example of whats written in first paragraph on this article. The United States is losing the war of ideas in the Islamic world, failing to elucidate its policies to Muslims wary of American intentions and "self-serving hypocrisy," a Pentagon advisory panel has found.
Anonymous Friend wrote: Stan you are a perfect example of whats written in first paragraph on this article. Hey, you're the one that wanted to have a conversation with a neocon. I know that you are accustomed to the typical western apologist crowd kow towing to every little complaint some Muslim throws at them. Well, I ain't one of them. I don't care how alienated the Muslims are. I will not compromise one single principle or value that I believe in to accomodate them. My values are as sacred to me as theirs are to them. We are not, and never have, invaded a single Muslim country out of some imperialistic urge to control Muslims or to acquire their wealth. We have done it because the Islamic world has proven itself incapable of managing its own affairs in a civilized way. If they want it to stop than they need to clean up their own mess the same way we westerners cleaned up Hitler. Show some balls, quite hiding behind your religion, and fight the bad guys (hint - it ain't us).
-
Let's just say that it is my personal belief is that behind the scenes, civil servents not affiliated with the BBC can suggest certain stories be floated. This story sounds somewhat correct - but I just do not trust the Pentagon and what the mainstream media parrots say anymore. They may be trying to build up credibility for some new set of lies, this may be a set up for some other spin that that want to play, possibly in Iran. Whatever it is it is not designed to inform the public.
Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. - Schopenhauer
You are paranoid. Your tin-foil hat is in the post. Despite their occasional anti-government bias, the BBC, being PUBLICLY FUNDED are still more impartial than any other media in the UK and I will not accept that Whitehall mandarins are skulking in the background pulling levers for political advantage. What proof do you have of government interference with BBC news storied? A "gut feeling"? "Personal belief"? Bollocks more like. You'll have to do MUCH better than that for fucks sake!
-
It's the BBC - so most likely the British Government is trying to tell you something.
Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. - Schopenhauer
Bullshit. Try backup up your claims with some facts instead of spouting this unfounded drivel.
-
You are paranoid. Your tin-foil hat is in the post. Despite their occasional anti-government bias, the BBC, being PUBLICLY FUNDED are still more impartial than any other media in the UK and I will not accept that Whitehall mandarins are skulking in the background pulling levers for political advantage. What proof do you have of government interference with BBC news storied? A "gut feeling"? "Personal belief"? Bollocks more like. You'll have to do MUCH better than that for fucks sake!
While (in this case) I'm pretty sure the BBC has done nothing wrong, I find the British love affair with this particular media conduit down right scary. Even a hint at inpropriety and you folks come running to their defense. You're as bad as us right-wing Americans. :rolleyes: "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
-
Nice points, but why oh why are you worried about posting a message on a message board so much that you have to be anonymous? It's just a post. It's not like anyone is going to visit your home and beat the shit out of you. Jeremy Falcon
-
For the ignorant and people with IQ less than 10. US Fails to Explain Policies to Muslim World, Panel Says Panel condemns image US gives to Muslims Terror war seen hurting US in Muslim world
Anonymous Friend wrote: For the ignorant and people with IQ less than 10. You mean the Arab street? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
-
Anonymous Friend wrote: The US is losing "the war of ideas" in the Islamic world, a Pentagon advisory panel has warned. A report by the Defence Science Board says official US talk of bringing democracy to Muslim nations is seen as "self-serving hypocrisy". It says if the US wants Muslims to move towards its understanding of tolerance, it must reassure them this does not mean submitting to "the American way". The report urges Washington to change its approach urgently. I just checked my facts--something the BBC seems to have failed to do again--and there is no such report by the DCB. Please verify here [^] Sorry to say, I've always thought of the BBC as a step above CBS and Dan Rather. Guess I was mistaken. :( Best, Jerry
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
Toasty0 wrote: I just checked my facts--something the BBC seems to have failed to do again--and there is no such report by the DCB. Please verify here [^] Third from the top "Strategic Communication". Before you are so quick to judge you should "research" first. Took me 5 seconds to search the pdfs with key words take from quotes in the article. Maybe when you check your facts, you should do it competently. Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
-
Just out of curiosity, what should our reaction to their arrogance be? Humility? Introspection? If we have any faith in our own values at all, why wouldn't a little arrogance own our part be in order.
Humility and the will to enlighten. May sound corny as hell, but when people hate you, you should try to clarify their reasons of hatred. How ya gonna learn, if no one teaches you. Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
-
US 'alienating' world's Muslims The US is losing "the war of ideas" in the Islamic world, a Pentagon advisory panel has warned. A report by the Defence Science Board says official US talk of bringing democracy to Muslim nations is seen as "self-serving hypocrisy". It says if the US wants Muslims to move towards its understanding of tolerance, it must reassure them this does not mean submitting to "the American way". The report urges Washington to change its approach urgently. I wonder what Bush and neocons will derive off of this. Please post your thoughts
-
Anonymous Friend wrote: So do you think that the report and its finding are incorrect? Heck-ah-roony, the report is not only incorrect, it is a phantom. The mechnanization of some reporter's scotch-soaked mind. A flight of fancy. It is a sick attempt to incite misguided Muslim youth into stupid acts of violence that will only lead to the slow bleed off of the Muslim youth from the body Muslim politic. And look at you. You took the bait, didn't you? Didn't even check your facts because you don't truly understand who or what the heck is really going on. Best, Jerry
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
Toasty0 wrote: Heck-ah-roony, the report is not only incorrect, it is a phantom. The mechnanization of some reporter's scotch-soaked mind. A flight of fancy. Amazing this phantom has a web site[^] Toasty0 wrote: And look at you. You took the bait, didn't you? Didn't even check your facts because you don't truly understand who or what the heck is really going on. :rolleyes::laugh: Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
-
This is the report that the BBC used.[^] Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
And the BBC article is an excellent example of how the Beeb uses selective quoting to make something seem entirely different than it is. Read the report, and see for yourself. BBC is seriously misreprensenting the report by means of a very selective quotes taken out of context.... Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
-
And as if you've never displayed any arrogance. Oh wait, that's right let's not point the figure at ourselves. Jeremy Falcon
I've never understood that argument. On the one hand you run round loudly protesting that you are doing everything you can to help make the world a better place and yet on the other you jump at every opportunity to avoid it by playing the "but mummy he did it" card? That is the worst form of hypocrisy IMO, and it is shown here on CodeProject time and time again. FWIW - not that it will matter - he didn't exclude himself from his comment, you did.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
-
And the BBC article is an excellent example of how the Beeb uses selective quoting to make something seem entirely different than it is. Read the report, and see for yourself. BBC is seriously misreprensenting the report by means of a very selective quotes taken out of context.... Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
not necesarily true, i am still reading the report, i just found it, yesterday was just me and the turkey ;P . From what I have read, the report is not based on arab relations like bbc claims, but does go to speak alot about it. The honest truth is that to think these peopl hate us for "freedom" is an insult to them as it is to us. After so many generations of violence over things as trivial as culture, you'd think we could find more peaceful resolutions. All the war rhetoric and Bush's crap divides people. You are with us or you are not, not a single hint of compromise. Talk like that should be used for those like Osama, but not for every member of his race. [edit] The title of the report is strategic communication. The point of using current events is the fact that many muslims do not think like we do. Therefore what may seem fine to you and me, may not to them. On top of that, many of our polocies make us look like hypocrytes. If we do not understand our enemy, and we do not care for their opinion, and we think everyone who does not agree with us is an enemy, then its not really "delivering democracy" is it. [/edit] Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
-
Too lazy to include a quick sig? I doubt it. Jeremy Falcon
-
Humility and the will to enlighten. May sound corny as hell, but when people hate you, you should try to clarify their reasons of hatred. How ya gonna learn, if no one teaches you. Discovery consist of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought -- Albert Szent-Györgyi Name the greatest of all the inventors: accident --Mark Twain
There are many situations where I might agree with that (in dealing with sane religions such as Christianity, for example). However, I do not feel that this is such a situation. Firstly, I have no tolerance of Muslim types who call our leadership criminal and have absolutely no criticism of their own culture. I have no intention of trying to "enlighten" anyone who is that out of touch with reality. All I hear them saying is that it is all our fault - that somehow we deserve what the terrorists give us. If any one thinks I am going to be humble confronted with that bullshit they are insane. If I could just hear one of these guys say "yeah, we have some problems at home that we really need to deal with" I would be very happy to meet them half way and admit that, yes, the US has some messes it needs to clean up also. But whatever the problem is, it is certainly not all our fault. We have done far more good than we have done harm. Secondly, these terrorists are very savy of Western civilization, they well understand the propensity of left wing elements in our society to back down from confrontations with foreign cultures in the name of "multi-culturalism". They know full well that the left suffers from a guilt ridden angst towards their own culture and they intend to take full advantage of it. I fully believe that a staunch defense of our own values, an in your face, confrontational approach to these guys is the best approach - to make sure there is no doubt in their minds that we have any intention of backing down from a single value or principle we believe in. Anything less will be a sign of weakness on our part that will merely bring on more violence. The solution to all this will ultimately be all of us working together to find one, but that is never going to happen until they understand that they will lose any direct confrontation with us. They have to rid themselves of terrorism or face complete distruction. So, in short, to hell with humility.
-
And the BBC article is an excellent example of how the Beeb uses selective quoting to make something seem entirely different than it is. Read the report, and see for yourself. BBC is seriously misreprensenting the report by means of a very selective quotes taken out of context.... Why would anyone waste time arguing with an accountant about anything? Their sole function is to record what happenned, and any higher aspirations are mere delusions of grandeur. On the ladder of productive contributions they are the little rubber pads at the bottom that keep the thing from sliding out from under you. - Roger Wright
Rob Graham wrote: And the BBC article is an excellent example of how the Beeb uses selective quoting to make something seem entirely different than it is. MSNBC also had the same take... "Terror war seen hurting U.S. in Muslim world Radicals gain new stature, Pentagon advisory panel says" http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6577524[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: pastiche http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
-
US 'alienating' world's Muslims The US is losing "the war of ideas" in the Islamic world, a Pentagon advisory panel has warned. A report by the Defence Science Board says official US talk of bringing democracy to Muslim nations is seen as "self-serving hypocrisy". It says if the US wants Muslims to move towards its understanding of tolerance, it must reassure them this does not mean submitting to "the American way". The report urges Washington to change its approach urgently. I wonder what Bush and neocons will derive off of this. Please post your thoughts
Anonymous Friend wrote: I wonder what Bush and neocons will derive off of this. I am glad someone provided a link to the report because I tried searching and couldn't find it. I did find out what Rummy thought about it (I am assuming it is the same report)... "...SEC. RUMSFELD: I'm not concerned, because the chiefs repeatedly test our capabilities against the conceivable demands for those capabilities. And as General Myers and General Pace and other chiefs have repeatedly said, we have the capability of fulfilling the missions that the United States military are called upon to perform and likely to be called upon to perform. I think what you -- what was in the report -- I don't want to characterize it, because I've not gone back to double-check it -- but I think a safe way to characterize it is this. Hypothetically, they said if you initiated a new set of activities every period of years and if those activities extended longer than the period between the initiation of new activities, you would for some period of time have a layering effect of requirements. And that's true. And therefore they raised questions as to how that could be dealt with. Now we have been looking at the same issue, obviously, on a monthly basis. We have, as you know, under way something like 35 or 45 initiatives to reduce stress on the force. We have used the emergency authorities to increase the size of the force. And we have been undertaking as rapidly as possible the steps on that long list of initiatives, in ways that we believe should -- may not, but should deal with the kinds of problems that those hypothetical questions in that summer study posed. We are every bit as interested in the subject as anybody else. It's not like there's anything new there conceptually. I thought it was a sufficiently interesting study that I immediately asked that it be briefed to the chiefs, briefed to the combatant commanders, briefed to the senior civilian leadership in the department and the Joint Staff. And that's going forward -- not because it's novel or new, but because it's an important subject and it's something that it's our responsibility to think about and plan for." http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040924-secdef1326.html[^] I just heard on the news that