Pictures From Iraq That Are Too Graphic For Mainstream Media
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Stan Shannon wrote: The question is how much blame do you put on the bad guys who are hiding behind these children? it's despicable. and they deserve whatever we can give them. the children though, do not deserve what they're getting. Stan Shannon wrote: Evil, by its very nature, will force its advisaries to commit heinous acts to get to it. Sooner or later you will be forced to deal with it, one way or the other. i agree, in general. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: it's despicable. and they deserve whatever we can give them. the children though, do not deserve what they're getting. Than consider this. Obviously, the bad guys want the negative propaganda of injured children splased around the world as it lends sympathy to their cause. Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? If we, as a society, can tolerate the positive propaganda of happy children for a while, wouldn't that tend to harm the plans of the terrorists and hasten their defeat? Wouldn't we possibly be saving the lives of children by playing along that somewhat Orwellian spin for a while?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Nice way to avoid the subject what was the subject? a bunch of crap you made up about me? something you imagine i said? Jeremy Falcon wrote: If you enjoy watching clips of people being beheaded and children with no limbs, then you are sick. i maintain that if you ignore the actual human costs of war, and prefer to gloss over it with happy stories, then you are also sick. that's my point and that's what my initial post is about. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I also know the type of person that's willing to stand up for someone and the type who's not. I don't see you as one that does i'm nearly speechless. how in the world can you even begin to make that kind of judgement about me? you don't know a goddamned thing about me. you certainly don't know anything about how i treat my friends and family in the real world. again, you're arguing with a caricature you've drawn and labeled "Chris Losinger". knock it off. Jeremy Falcon wrote: Tell me Chris, have you ever tried out for the military? i'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. but, yes, i took the tests when i was deciding what to do after high school. after talking with the various recruiters from both the A.F. and Army, and weighing it against going directly to college (in terms of an eventual career, getting money for college, academic depth in the subjects i was interested in at the time, and the military lifestyle vs. the college lifestyle), i decided the military wasn't what i wanted to do. Jeremy Falcon wrote: Why Not? oops, the real Chris Losinger answered differently than your strawman. Jeremy Falcon wrote: The second part was meant to tell you that you don't really understand what goes on the minds of the people in our military. But, yet you want to look at pictures and interpret them like you do. WTF ? i posted a link to some pictures that show the other underreported side of the war. i'm not trying to know the minds of the people in the military and never claimed to be able to. i offered no moral judgement on the military, or the people in the military. if i'm making any judgement here it's about the politicians who ordered and sustain this war. and, furthermore, if you've never been in the military yourself, who are you to tell me what's in the minds of those who are/were ? Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Chris Losinger wrote: what was the subject? a bunch of crap you made up about me? something you imagine i said? I don't imagine your posts. I read them on CP. (Obviously, this refers to your posts collectively.) Chris Losinger wrote: i maintain that if you ignore the actual human costs of war, and prefer to gloss over it with happy stories, then you are also sick. that's my point and that's what my initial post is about. Understood, but yet you have never once talked about the good aspects of the results of the war on CP. Sounds like you're leaning too far to one side yourself. Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. but, yes, i took the tests when i was deciding what to do after high school. after talking with the various recruiters from both the A.F. and Army, and weighing it against going directly to college (in terms of an eventual career, getting money for college, and the military lifestyle vs. the college lifestyle), i decided the military wasn't what i wanted to do. And, that's exactly my point. You don't understand the mindset of your typical soldier. Most of them don't do it for the pay. The do it for other reasons, but in the meantime they can help themselves. Chris Losinger wrote: WTF ? i posted a link to some pictures that show the other underreported side of the war. i'm not trying to know the minds of the people in the military and never claimed to be able to. i offered no moral judgement on the military, or the people in the military. if i'm making any judgement here it's about the politicians who ordered and sustain this war. Oddly enough, the general impression I get from you is the soldiers are children killers, etc. and only recently have you stated otherwise. Regardless, my points revolve around more than just one single post. It's your attitude that I've come to know on CP. You don’t have anything nice to say about this country. Chris Losinger wrote: and, furthermore, if you've never been in the military yourself, who are you to tell me what's in the minds of those who are/were ? You don't comprehend much do you? I already said I tried to join the military. I also have known a few soldiers in my time. And, I do know the kind of person it takes to be one. [edit] And when I say I tried to join I don't mean I took the ASVAB and let a pencil tell me weither or not I have enough balls and that I
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Stan Shannon wrote: The question is how much blame do you put on the bad guys who are hiding behind these children? it's despicable. and they deserve whatever we can give them. the children though, do not deserve what they're getting. Stan Shannon wrote: Evil, by its very nature, will force its advisaries to commit heinous acts to get to it. Sooner or later you will be forced to deal with it, one way or the other. i agree, in general. Software | Cleek
Stan Shannon wrote: ..... Chris Losinger wrote: i agree, I feel a distinct shifting of the force, Luke. Chris L. has agreed with Stan S. :) Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] Gently arching his fishing rod back he moves the tip forward in a gentle arch releasing the line.... kersplunk [Doug Goulden]
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Chris Losinger wrote: it's despicable. and they deserve whatever we can give them. the children though, do not deserve what they're getting. Than consider this. Obviously, the bad guys want the negative propaganda of injured children splased around the world as it lends sympathy to their cause. Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? If we, as a society, can tolerate the positive propaganda of happy children for a while, wouldn't that tend to harm the plans of the terrorists and hasten their defeat? Wouldn't we possibly be saving the lives of children by playing along that somewhat Orwellian spin for a while?
Stan Shannon wrote: If we, as a society, can tolerate the positive propaganda of happy children for a while, wouldn't that tend to harm the plans of the terrorists and hasten their defeat? i think people should know what they're getting when they give their leaders approval to carry out a war. sure, show pictures of painted schools, but don't pretend that's all that's going on. and, we don't control the world's media. those pictures, or pictures just like them, are going to be out there, no matter if they're on our TVs or not. the only people who won't see them if the US media doesn't show them are Americans who don't look outside America for news. Software | Cleek
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Hmmm. They forgot this one[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: But, in the case of Iraq, I'm sure more Iraqi's would've died if we hadn't removed insane Hussein. I don't know about that, 100 000 iraqis dead (statistically, based on the change in death rate) as a result of the iraq war [in just one year] thats a pretty big change.... -Steven Hicks
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(Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: I don't know about that, 100 000 iraqis dead (statistically, based on the change in death rate) as a result of the iraq war [in just one year] thats a pretty big change.... For one, I wouldn't totally trust that number. But, let's say it's accurate. What about all the Iraqi's that would've died in the future over the years if nothing happened. I'm sure that number plus the ones in the past are greater. Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: and tell me what you think. someone is making money. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: someone is making money. a reps excuse for (almost?) everything.
we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is Vonnegut jr.
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Chris Losinger wrote: what was the subject? a bunch of crap you made up about me? something you imagine i said? I don't imagine your posts. I read them on CP. (Obviously, this refers to your posts collectively.) Chris Losinger wrote: i maintain that if you ignore the actual human costs of war, and prefer to gloss over it with happy stories, then you are also sick. that's my point and that's what my initial post is about. Understood, but yet you have never once talked about the good aspects of the results of the war on CP. Sounds like you're leaning too far to one side yourself. Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. but, yes, i took the tests when i was deciding what to do after high school. after talking with the various recruiters from both the A.F. and Army, and weighing it against going directly to college (in terms of an eventual career, getting money for college, and the military lifestyle vs. the college lifestyle), i decided the military wasn't what i wanted to do. And, that's exactly my point. You don't understand the mindset of your typical soldier. Most of them don't do it for the pay. The do it for other reasons, but in the meantime they can help themselves. Chris Losinger wrote: WTF ? i posted a link to some pictures that show the other underreported side of the war. i'm not trying to know the minds of the people in the military and never claimed to be able to. i offered no moral judgement on the military, or the people in the military. if i'm making any judgement here it's about the politicians who ordered and sustain this war. Oddly enough, the general impression I get from you is the soldiers are children killers, etc. and only recently have you stated otherwise. Regardless, my points revolve around more than just one single post. It's your attitude that I've come to know on CP. You don’t have anything nice to say about this country. Chris Losinger wrote: and, furthermore, if you've never been in the military yourself, who are you to tell me what's in the minds of those who are/were ? You don't comprehend much do you? I already said I tried to join the military. I also have known a few soldiers in my time. And, I do know the kind of person it takes to be one. [edit] And when I say I tried to join I don't mean I took the ASVAB and let a pencil tell me weither or not I have enough balls and that I
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I already said I tried to join the military i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I also have known a few soldiers in my time. oh come on. who doesn't know people who've served ? hell, all my grandfathers, an uncle, some of my close friends, many not-so-close friends, many people i work with, people i went to school with (ROTC), etc.. and they don't have a common mindset - some are assholes, some are great, some are quiet, some loud, some liberal, some a-political, some are neat and tidy, some are sloppy, some are liars, some are... and you wouldn't know most of them had even served, unless you asked them. they're as diverse as any other random group of people. and again, no common mindset. Jeremy Falcon wrote: the general impression I get from you is the soldiers are children killers then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. Jeremy Falcon wrote: You don’t have anything nice to say about this country be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I asked a rhetorical question about it to make a point yes, we know. your point came through just fine. Software | Cleek
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Once again Chris, you missed the point. Brian Gideon wasn't trying to say war is fun IMO, but rather there are at least some positive aspects as a result of it. So yeah war sucks, but that wasn't really the point now was it? It tends the media (and people like yourself) tend to focus on the negative. It's nice to see some encouraging pictures once in a while that help people like me believe the world isn't going to hell in a hand basket just yet. Also, there's still one important aspect about this whole war thing that few people on CP are willing to understand... most of these soldiers understand their sacrifice and love their country enough to make it. Yeah, I'm sure some were suckered into the military and are pansies, etc. But, I seriously doubt the majority of our military is made up of selfish people. Oh sure, some might say that's cool and all, but this war is uncalled for. Well, that remains to be seen. Maybe we'll never know, but being there for your country means you're there during the wrong and the right. And, to not always insult everything about it when it's the popular thing to do (reminds me of Kerry AND Moore, hmmm). Do you degrade your family when they mess up, or do you tell them not to do it again and make the best of the situation? Oh sure, I'm you might say people may die when the country makes a mistake. But, in the case of Iraq, I'm sure more Iraqi's would've died if we hadn't removed insane Hussein. Tell me Chris, have you ever taken up for a friend in need (like getting picked on or in a fight)? Or do you run and cower like most people, and are too afraid of getting hurt? And then later on you tell your friend it's cool after he gets his ass kicked. Guess what, guys in the military aren't like you. Oh, and if your rebuttal is "what about you?". Well, yes I've taken up for friends before by fighting those who would unfairly hit them. And yes, I did even try to get into the military myself when I was younger, but as I already said on CP I faced legal complications in my adolescent years. I guess my point is, thank God (or whatever entity) the majority of our military is not made up of people like you. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Guess what, guys in the military aren't like you. "...For Bagley, the attack has also taken a toll on his view of Iraqis. 'I don't think they want help,' he tells his brigade commander, Col. Mark Milley of the 10th Mountain Division. 'It is only a few,' Milley responds. 'This is a big country.'..." http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/041101/20041101046617_brief.php[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Oh Lordy, Lordy, how dare you shatter the deception.
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
Toasty0 wrote: Oh Lordy, Lordy, how dare you shatter the deception. I am not really sure if it shatters much of anything. I can't tell much from the pictures, as there is not that many images with store signs and background scenery. But since their is no caption to at least give some context of time/location to tell me otherwise, it seems that at least some of these pictures might not have been taken in central Iraq, and the looks from some[background scenery] and asking those familiar with the area it seems to be northern regions. Quran Translation Islam Basics Islamic lectures
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Chris Losinger wrote: it's despicable. and they deserve whatever we can give them. the children though, do not deserve what they're getting. Than consider this. Obviously, the bad guys want the negative propaganda of injured children splased around the world as it lends sympathy to their cause. Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? If we, as a society, can tolerate the positive propaganda of happy children for a while, wouldn't that tend to harm the plans of the terrorists and hasten their defeat? Wouldn't we possibly be saving the lives of children by playing along that somewhat Orwellian spin for a while?
Stan Shannon wrote: Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? Of course, but since this war is useless there is no good news to report. I am sure when there is good news they will report it, like elections happening on time, etc. But right now, there is nothing but severely stressed out troops and a country trying to survive under martial law while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Sad. I think that people lose perspective for what war is. Personnaly I don't regret we are fighting in Iraq, just that there is a need to do it. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Guess what, guys in the military aren't like you. "...For Bagley, the attack has also taken a toll on his view of Iraqis. 'I don't think they want help,' he tells his brigade commander, Col. Mark Milley of the 10th Mountain Division. 'It is only a few,' Milley responds. 'This is a big country.'..." http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/041101/20041101046617_brief.php[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. I also, do not wish to pay to read the whole story. I did find this as an abstract for the story though... Abstract: Main roads used as supply lines in Iraq are recognized as vulnerable to insurgents' attacks. In some villages, however, soldiers are making friends. Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: wow. talk about missing the point. Nice way to avoid the subject. Chris Losinger wrote: no, his point (assuming his title reflects his point, and that it's sarcastic) was that the MSM is filtering out all the good news (because they're horribly biased against the Honest and Pure W administration, i assume). And, of course you assume incorrectly. What, everyone in the world has to think W is incapable of making a mistake just because they want to see good in a given situation? That's just being naive. Chris Losinger wrote: well, guess what? they're filtering out the really bad stuff too. cruise around that site and see the pictures of the babies and children with their limbs blown off. i don't see much of that on the MSM. do you? Well duh, that's just how our media works! We aren't that graphic in the US. I mean hell, parents pitched a fit when Mortal Kombat first came out. We know there's seriously grotesque and vile things out there, but seeing pictures of it doesn't make us any happier. If you enjoy watching clips of people being beheaded and children with no limbs, then you are sick. Chris Losinger wrote: where the f*** am i degrading anyone? where did i degrade the military? where did tell anyone it's cool he got his ass kicked? where did i call anyone 'selfish' or a 'pansy' ? Notice, you didn't answer my question. It's simple Chris, after reading all your posts over the past years on CP, I've come to know at least the person you portray yourself as on CP. I also know the type of person that's willing to stand up for someone and the type who's not. I don't see you as one that does. BTW, once again you miss the point. I never said you called people in the military "selfish" or "pansy". If you reread it again and bother to be objective, you'll notice I said that some people in the military may be that (so in essence it's me calling them that) and I'm willing to bet the soldiers on F9/11 whining about their pay are perfect examples of such soldiers. Any there any other points in this post you'd like to miss? Chris Losinger wrote: you know what... your whole post is full of strawmen. you're arguing against this imaginary Chris Losinger that you made in your head all by yourself. you've given him a whole range of ugly traits and you're attacking them one at a time. big f***ing victory for you. hooray. you've slain the
Jeremy Falcon wrote: No, my post is full of words. Words, which I'm willing to wager are accurate. Tell me Chris, have you ever tried out for the military? Why not? Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I have friends who are pacifists and they have as much right to an opinion as anyone else does, so whether Chris was in the military or not is beside the point. Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. :rose: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I already said I tried to join the military i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I also have known a few soldiers in my time. oh come on. who doesn't know people who've served ? hell, all my grandfathers, an uncle, some of my close friends, many not-so-close friends, many people i work with, people i went to school with (ROTC), etc.. and they don't have a common mindset - some are assholes, some are great, some are quiet, some loud, some liberal, some a-political, some are neat and tidy, some are sloppy, some are liars, some are... and you wouldn't know most of them had even served, unless you asked them. they're as diverse as any other random group of people. and again, no common mindset. Jeremy Falcon wrote: the general impression I get from you is the soldiers are children killers then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. Jeremy Falcon wrote: You don’t have anything nice to say about this country be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I asked a rhetorical question about it to make a point yes, we know. your point came through just fine. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Why not? It may not tell me everything about what it's like when/if I get there, but it can for damn sure let me know what type of person it takes to sign up for the military. Chris Losinger wrote: and again, no common mindset. I disagree. They signed up for the military (ROTC is not even on the topic). That's something in common. There is obviously something that separates them from those who do not sign up (assuming it wasn't because of a draft). And, I'm willing to bet, most of their reasoning wasn't selfish in nature - which brings me back to my original point. Chris Losinger wrote: then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. I was under the impression there's only one Chris Losinger here. Chris Losinger wrote: be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Why not? It may not tell me everything about what it's like when/if I get there, but it can for damn sure let me know what type of person it takes to sign up for the military. Chris Losinger wrote: and again, no common mindset. I disagree. They signed up for the military (ROTC is not even on the topic). That's something in common. There is obviously something that separates them from those who do not sign up (assuming it wasn't because of a draft). And, I'm willing to bet, most of their reasoning wasn't selfish in nature - which brings me back to my original point. Chris Losinger wrote: then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. I was under the impression there's only one Chris Losinger here. Chris Losinger wrote: be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Jeremy Falcon
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Stan Shannon wrote: Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? Of course, but since this war is useless there is no good news to report. I am sure when there is good news they will report it, like elections happening on time, etc. But right now, there is nothing but severely stressed out troops and a country trying to survive under martial law while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway ;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. I also, do not wish to pay to read the whole story. I did find this as an abstract for the story though... Abstract: Main roads used as supply lines in Iraq are recognized as vulnerable to insurgents' attacks. In some villages, however, soldiers are making friends. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. Yeah, I apologize for that. I have a hard copy of that article but don't subscribe and I wasn't about to hand type the entire article.:) The main context is this "US Soldiers encounter deadly highways and quiet villages in Iraq." They told a story of how that soldier's Humvee was attacked. My main point was to shed light on your hasty generalization. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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JoeSox wrote: while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway ;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway If you noticed I stated "nonvoters &..." I voted and I just watched it for the first time this past weekend. I would have called the police if my son ran someone over, btw.:doh: Believe it or not, I have gotten into Nanny 911[^] :rolleyes: :-O Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: No, my post is full of words. Words, which I'm willing to wager are accurate. Tell me Chris, have you ever tried out for the military? Why not? Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I have friends who are pacifists and they have as much right to an opinion as anyone else does, so whether Chris was in the military or not is beside the point. Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. :rose: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I'm judging Chris *primarily* by the way he appears to be on CP. I'm sure there are those out there that didn't serve (me included) that are just as patriotic as I am. Doug Goulden wrote: Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. This all depends on what you consider is worth fighting for. My family and my country are things I consider worth fighting for. Even if I don't agree with the reason for war, it's our brethren that will suffer if we don't fight. If you think your country is worth fighting for and yet you don't fight for it, then it is easy to conclude a lack of courage the way I see it. If someone doesn't think our country is worth fighting for then I don't believe they deserve to be a citizen. Doug Goulden wrote: There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. I know you're right, but it's hard to see that sometimes. Especially, when you keep on seeing the negativity over and over and over again. Doug Goulden wrote: We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. Or perhaps they reach their opinions in an ignorant way? :) Jeremy Falcon
