Pictures From Iraq That Are Too Graphic For Mainstream Media
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Sad. I think that people lose perspective for what war is. Personnaly I don't regret we are fighting in Iraq, just that there is a need to do it. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Guess what, guys in the military aren't like you. "...For Bagley, the attack has also taken a toll on his view of Iraqis. 'I don't think they want help,' he tells his brigade commander, Col. Mark Milley of the 10th Mountain Division. 'It is only a few,' Milley responds. 'This is a big country.'..." http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/041101/20041101046617_brief.php[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. I also, do not wish to pay to read the whole story. I did find this as an abstract for the story though... Abstract: Main roads used as supply lines in Iraq are recognized as vulnerable to insurgents' attacks. In some villages, however, soldiers are making friends. Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: wow. talk about missing the point. Nice way to avoid the subject. Chris Losinger wrote: no, his point (assuming his title reflects his point, and that it's sarcastic) was that the MSM is filtering out all the good news (because they're horribly biased against the Honest and Pure W administration, i assume). And, of course you assume incorrectly. What, everyone in the world has to think W is incapable of making a mistake just because they want to see good in a given situation? That's just being naive. Chris Losinger wrote: well, guess what? they're filtering out the really bad stuff too. cruise around that site and see the pictures of the babies and children with their limbs blown off. i don't see much of that on the MSM. do you? Well duh, that's just how our media works! We aren't that graphic in the US. I mean hell, parents pitched a fit when Mortal Kombat first came out. We know there's seriously grotesque and vile things out there, but seeing pictures of it doesn't make us any happier. If you enjoy watching clips of people being beheaded and children with no limbs, then you are sick. Chris Losinger wrote: where the f*** am i degrading anyone? where did i degrade the military? where did tell anyone it's cool he got his ass kicked? where did i call anyone 'selfish' or a 'pansy' ? Notice, you didn't answer my question. It's simple Chris, after reading all your posts over the past years on CP, I've come to know at least the person you portray yourself as on CP. I also know the type of person that's willing to stand up for someone and the type who's not. I don't see you as one that does. BTW, once again you miss the point. I never said you called people in the military "selfish" or "pansy". If you reread it again and bother to be objective, you'll notice I said that some people in the military may be that (so in essence it's me calling them that) and I'm willing to bet the soldiers on F9/11 whining about their pay are perfect examples of such soldiers. Any there any other points in this post you'd like to miss? Chris Losinger wrote: you know what... your whole post is full of strawmen. you're arguing against this imaginary Chris Losinger that you made in your head all by yourself. you've given him a whole range of ugly traits and you're attacking them one at a time. big f***ing victory for you. hooray. you've slain the
Jeremy Falcon wrote: No, my post is full of words. Words, which I'm willing to wager are accurate. Tell me Chris, have you ever tried out for the military? Why not? Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I have friends who are pacifists and they have as much right to an opinion as anyone else does, so whether Chris was in the military or not is beside the point. Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. :rose: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I already said I tried to join the military i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I also have known a few soldiers in my time. oh come on. who doesn't know people who've served ? hell, all my grandfathers, an uncle, some of my close friends, many not-so-close friends, many people i work with, people i went to school with (ROTC), etc.. and they don't have a common mindset - some are assholes, some are great, some are quiet, some loud, some liberal, some a-political, some are neat and tidy, some are sloppy, some are liars, some are... and you wouldn't know most of them had even served, unless you asked them. they're as diverse as any other random group of people. and again, no common mindset. Jeremy Falcon wrote: the general impression I get from you is the soldiers are children killers then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. Jeremy Falcon wrote: You don’t have anything nice to say about this country be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. Jeremy Falcon wrote: I asked a rhetorical question about it to make a point yes, we know. your point came through just fine. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Why not? It may not tell me everything about what it's like when/if I get there, but it can for damn sure let me know what type of person it takes to sign up for the military. Chris Losinger wrote: and again, no common mindset. I disagree. They signed up for the military (ROTC is not even on the topic). That's something in common. There is obviously something that separates them from those who do not sign up (assuming it wasn't because of a draft). And, I'm willing to bet, most of their reasoning wasn't selfish in nature - which brings me back to my original point. Chris Losinger wrote: then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. I was under the impression there's only one Chris Losinger here. Chris Losinger wrote: be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Why not? It may not tell me everything about what it's like when/if I get there, but it can for damn sure let me know what type of person it takes to sign up for the military. Chris Losinger wrote: and again, no common mindset. I disagree. They signed up for the military (ROTC is not even on the topic). That's something in common. There is obviously something that separates them from those who do not sign up (assuming it wasn't because of a draft). And, I'm willing to bet, most of their reasoning wasn't selfish in nature - which brings me back to my original point. Chris Losinger wrote: then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. I was under the impression there's only one Chris Losinger here. Chris Losinger wrote: be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Jeremy Falcon
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Stan Shannon wrote: Shouldn't we, therefore, be encouraging our media to show the good news more than it shows the bad? Of course, but since this war is useless there is no good news to report. I am sure when there is good news they will report it, like elections happening on time, etc. But right now, there is nothing but severely stressed out troops and a country trying to survive under martial law while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway ;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. I also, do not wish to pay to read the whole story. I did find this as an abstract for the story though... Abstract: Main roads used as supply lines in Iraq are recognized as vulnerable to insurgents' attacks. In some villages, however, soldiers are making friends. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I don't really know the context of the paragraph you quoted and as such it's kinda hard to know what to make of it. Yeah, I apologize for that. I have a hard copy of that article but don't subscribe and I wasn't about to hand type the entire article.:) The main context is this "US Soldiers encounter deadly highways and quiet villages in Iraq." They told a story of how that soldier's Humvee was attacked. My main point was to shed light on your hasty generalization. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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JoeSox wrote: while half way around the globe we have nonvoters watching Desperate Housewives. And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway ;P Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway If you noticed I stated "nonvoters &..." I voted and I just watched it for the first time this past weekend. I would have called the police if my son ran someone over, btw.:doh: Believe it or not, I have gotten into Nanny 911[^] :rolleyes: :-O Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: No, my post is full of words. Words, which I'm willing to wager are accurate. Tell me Chris, have you ever tried out for the military? Why not? Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I have friends who are pacifists and they have as much right to an opinion as anyone else does, so whether Chris was in the military or not is beside the point. Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. :rose: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I'm judging Chris *primarily* by the way he appears to be on CP. I'm sure there are those out there that didn't serve (me included) that are just as patriotic as I am. Doug Goulden wrote: Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. This all depends on what you consider is worth fighting for. My family and my country are things I consider worth fighting for. Even if I don't agree with the reason for war, it's our brethren that will suffer if we don't fight. If you think your country is worth fighting for and yet you don't fight for it, then it is easy to conclude a lack of courage the way I see it. If someone doesn't think our country is worth fighting for then I don't believe they deserve to be a citizen. Doug Goulden wrote: There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. I know you're right, but it's hard to see that sometimes. Especially, when you keep on seeing the negativity over and over and over again. Doug Goulden wrote: We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. Or perhaps they reach their opinions in an ignorant way? :) Jeremy Falcon
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Doug Goulden wrote: Hey Jeremy, thats not fair. I DID serve in the military, for 8 1/2 years, and I don't judge someone by whether they served or not. I'm judging Chris *primarily* by the way he appears to be on CP. I'm sure there are those out there that didn't serve (me included) that are just as patriotic as I am. Doug Goulden wrote: Someone can be unwilling to fight, and still have courage and honor. To suggest otherwise is unreasonable. This all depends on what you consider is worth fighting for. My family and my country are things I consider worth fighting for. Even if I don't agree with the reason for war, it's our brethren that will suffer if we don't fight. If you think your country is worth fighting for and yet you don't fight for it, then it is easy to conclude a lack of courage the way I see it. If someone doesn't think our country is worth fighting for then I don't believe they deserve to be a citizen. Doug Goulden wrote: There are positive and negative things going on in Iraq, and it bothers me to see people refuse to see some of the positive things that do go on. But not everyone is a glass half full sort of person, that doesn't make them dishonest or dishonorable. I know you're right, but it's hard to see that sometimes. Especially, when you keep on seeing the negativity over and over and over again. Doug Goulden wrote: We all need to realize that the person on the other side of these computer screens , while they may have different opinions or even biases, are 3 dimensional real people who usually reach their opinions in an honest and honorable way. Or perhaps they reach their opinions in an ignorant way? :) Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: This all depends on what you consider is worth fighting for. My family and my country are things I consider worth fighting for. Even if I don't agree with the reason for war, it's our brethren that will suffer if we don't fight. If you think your country is worth fighting for and yet you don't fight for it, then it is easy to conclude a lack of courage the way I see it. If someone doesn't think our country is worth fighting for then I don't believe they deserve to be a citizen. One the one hand I agree with you, my country is worth fighting and if necessary dying for. I never really had much use for pacifists, but you have to look at the person's reasoning. A good friend of mine honestly believed could not commit a violent act, believing it was un-Christian. It wasn't a matter of cowardice, his wife had been married before and one day her ex showed up and started being abusive. The guy stepped between his wife and the ex, telling him to leave. He was willing to take whatever beating the guy might give him to protect his wife. I don't really understand it myself, but I do have to respect someone like that, they are no coward. As for believing that the country is not worth fighting for, I do agree there. If you aren't morally opposed to violence, you should be willing to serve. As a matter of fact, I would go as far to say people should be required to serve whether its being in the military, serving in a VA hospital, or even public works projects for those who can't serve in the military. A citizen should be willing to serve and help their country whether its as part of the military or some other public service. That doesn't mean they have to agree with everything the country does though. Jeremy Falcon wrote: Or perhaps they reach their opinions in an ignorant way? That or just misguided....... Hey, most people take their liberties and rights for granted not realizing what they cost someone else to get. We are fortunate enough to live in a place where people who came before us were willing and able to provide us with what we have, most places in the world that's not the case. You just have to remember that civil discourse is important when it comes to making sure we stay on the right track. Disagreement ended slavery, has limited racism, and righted many wrongs, but both sides of any issue have to respect the other perspective. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Doug Goulden wrote: And the problem with watching Desperate Housewives is? I like Eva Longeria and Terri Hatcher ..... or looking at them anyway If you noticed I stated "nonvoters &..." I voted and I just watched it for the first time this past weekend. I would have called the police if my son ran someone over, btw.:doh: Believe it or not, I have gotten into Nanny 911[^] :rolleyes: :-O Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
I voted .... obviously, and I agree I would turn my kid in and then stood by him as he faced the consequences of his actions. Sadly there are to many people these days who think that someone should be excused for any act if they are young, I personnaly think it screws kids up even worse. I saw the Nanny 911 advertised, it looked funny, but I figured I would get hacked off at the people who were apparently unable or unwilling to discipline their own kids.... :~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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I voted .... obviously, and I agree I would turn my kid in and then stood by him as he faced the consequences of his actions. Sadly there are to many people these days who think that someone should be excused for any act if they are young, I personnaly think it screws kids up even worse. I saw the Nanny 911 advertised, it looked funny, but I figured I would get hacked off at the people who were apparently unable or unwilling to discipline their own kids.... :~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: I saw the Nanny 911 advertised, it looked funny, but I figured I would get hacked off at the people who were apparently unable or unwilling to discipline their own kids.... It really is amazing to see how bad some of those parents are. It's mostly because they never learned the skills and are stressed. Watching some of those kids on the show, and a few in my son's preschool, I am lucky my kid is so well behaved and verbal. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: contretemps http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Hey, don't stop here. You three had an interesting discussion. ;) -- Weiter, weiter, ins verderben. Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben. I blog too now[^]
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: This all depends on what you consider is worth fighting for. My family and my country are things I consider worth fighting for. Even if I don't agree with the reason for war, it's our brethren that will suffer if we don't fight. If you think your country is worth fighting for and yet you don't fight for it, then it is easy to conclude a lack of courage the way I see it. If someone doesn't think our country is worth fighting for then I don't believe they deserve to be a citizen. One the one hand I agree with you, my country is worth fighting and if necessary dying for. I never really had much use for pacifists, but you have to look at the person's reasoning. A good friend of mine honestly believed could not commit a violent act, believing it was un-Christian. It wasn't a matter of cowardice, his wife had been married before and one day her ex showed up and started being abusive. The guy stepped between his wife and the ex, telling him to leave. He was willing to take whatever beating the guy might give him to protect his wife. I don't really understand it myself, but I do have to respect someone like that, they are no coward. As for believing that the country is not worth fighting for, I do agree there. If you aren't morally opposed to violence, you should be willing to serve. As a matter of fact, I would go as far to say people should be required to serve whether its being in the military, serving in a VA hospital, or even public works projects for those who can't serve in the military. A citizen should be willing to serve and help their country whether its as part of the military or some other public service. That doesn't mean they have to agree with everything the country does though. Jeremy Falcon wrote: Or perhaps they reach their opinions in an ignorant way? That or just misguided....... Hey, most people take their liberties and rights for granted not realizing what they cost someone else to get. We are fortunate enough to live in a place where people who came before us were willing and able to provide us with what we have, most places in the world that's not the case. You just have to remember that civil discourse is important when it comes to making sure we stay on the right track. Disagreement ended slavery, has limited racism, and righted many wrongs, but both sides of any issue have to respect the other perspective. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: I don't really understand it myself, but I do have to respect someone like that, they are no coward. I wanna say it's a respectful act too, but I mean if he didn't beat the shit out of the ex, wouldn't the ex be more likely to return at a later date? Maybe when he isn't around to protect his wife? I mean, I use violence as a last resort if at all possible (and I have a long temper - hard to believe I know :)), but sometimes you just got to say to hell with it and kick some ass. Then again, people are different, and I'm glad to know this guy didn't at least allow his wife to be beat. Doug Goulden wrote: That doesn't mean they have to agree with everything the country does though. Agreed, but my point was if we do nothing, then our follow citizens could end up dying over it. So, if even I didn't fully agree with Iraq, I'd still fight for our country, our home, and its inhabitants. Doug Goulden wrote: Hey, most people take their liberties and rights for granted not realizing what they cost someone else to get. That's what really irks me too, and I wish the schools would tech this point better than they do. Doug Goulden wrote: Disagreement ended slavery, has limited racism, and righted many wrongs, but both sides of any issue have to respect the other perspective. I see your point. It's just easy to sometimes forget that ya know. Jeremy Falcon
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Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not sure that gives you any insight into the mindset of the typical soldier. Why not? It may not tell me everything about what it's like when/if I get there, but it can for damn sure let me know what type of person it takes to sign up for the military. Chris Losinger wrote: and again, no common mindset. I disagree. They signed up for the military (ROTC is not even on the topic). That's something in common. There is obviously something that separates them from those who do not sign up (assuming it wasn't because of a draft). And, I'm willing to bet, most of their reasoning wasn't selfish in nature - which brings me back to my original point. Chris Losinger wrote: then you haven't been reading my posts, not in this thread or in any other. I was under the impression there's only one Chris Losinger here. Chris Losinger wrote: be careful there. i might not have anything nice to say about politicians and their policies, but i like America and Americans just fine. it's an important distinction, and one i suspect W's supporters will re-learn as soon as the next Democrat president takes office. So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: So you're saying it takes a democratic president in office for you to let CP know you like America? That's just childish. And, if you like the country so much, then how come you rarely point out the good things about it on CP? Wow, and you're complaining that he didn't read your posts. It's clear that what he was saying is that republicans will be back to complaining about the president and the administration as soon as there is a Dem in office again. In other words, you don't have to love the administration to love this country. He didn't even mention how having a democrat in office would make him think, he mentioned how it would make republicans think. Nice try, twisting his words though. What a crock! Chris Richardson
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The fact that images such as these do not get a lot of coverage is simply a conseqence of the quest for circulation/ratings. Whatever the issue, the media prefers images that are dramatic or sensational. Military operations, bombs going off and all the rest of it fit standard news criteria. A bunch of "happy snaps" doesn't. Take the issue of public schools. Are you more likely to see footage of a shooting at a school or photos of happy students getting along with each other? Take any third world country. Do we get coverage when there is a famine or a flood or a war or do we get coverage when things are going better? The same general point applies across the board. John Carson Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. Oscar Wilde
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Sad. I think that people lose perspective for what war is. Personnaly I don't regret we are fighting in Iraq, just that there is a need to do it. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: Personnaly I don't regret we are fighting in Iraq, just that there is a need to do it. Um, I think you missed the word "not" between "is" and "a"... although come to think of it, you're right. We started the mess, now we need to clean it up. Regards, Alvaro
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I am glad that they are learning to write in English, too. Surprisingly well. No spelling mistakes and in a different alphabet, left to right.
Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. - Schopenhauer
JWood wrote: I am glad that they are learning to write in English, too. Surprisingly well. No spelling mistakes and in a different alphabet, left to right. It wouldn't surprise me if they had help from the soliders. Though, when I was in the middle east a few years ago everyone spoke English very well and it seemed there were just as many signs in English as there were in Arabic. I didn't notice that any of them were misspelled. I've never been in Iraq so I don't know how much English is used there.
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The fact that images such as these do not get a lot of coverage is simply a conseqence of the quest for circulation/ratings. Whatever the issue, the media prefers images that are dramatic or sensational. Military operations, bombs going off and all the rest of it fit standard news criteria. A bunch of "happy snaps" doesn't. Take the issue of public schools. Are you more likely to see footage of a shooting at a school or photos of happy students getting along with each other? Take any third world country. Do we get coverage when there is a famine or a flood or a war or do we get coverage when things are going better? The same general point applies across the board. John Carson Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. Oscar Wilde
