I'm famous
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People say they want 'land reform'. Effectively we had that years ago because most modern day farmers were previously tennant farmers. If every one has an equal slice of land you have suburbia not countryside. In the UK there's a lot of 'class prejudice' from frustrated socialists. If you want to get at the rich tax them! It's ironic that the sociao economic group most against the ban are the lowest paid.
MOO!!
MOOOO! wrote: People want 'land reform'. I didn't know that that was an issue at all in the UK anymore. - Personally I think, only the best people for the job should become farmers. And currently my guess is the biggest barrier to entry are the land prices. - Also IMHO: The UK needs to keep working towards sustainable non subsidised food production, which may well mean more labor intensive farming. Regardz Colin J Davies Attention: It's finally arrived, The worlds first DSP.
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MOOOO! wrote: People want 'land reform'. I didn't know that that was an issue at all in the UK anymore. - Personally I think, only the best people for the job should become farmers. And currently my guess is the biggest barrier to entry are the land prices. - Also IMHO: The UK needs to keep working towards sustainable non subsidised food production, which may well mean more labor intensive farming. Regardz Colin J Davies Attention: It's finally arrived, The worlds first DSP.
I would agree with that. Subsidies have kept land prices high. The most 'efficient' farming is often the least sustainable. I also think people in the UK have a big chip on their shoulder about 'class'. Often they don't really even know what it is and equate land ownership with class. My point is that to attack someone because of their class is really just ethnic or cultural hatred. Class in Britain being as much a cultural issue as anything else.
MOO!!
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I've almost given up these rants as most people are far too prejudiced to listen to how they are wreaking our beautiful countryside. But hey I got famous (albeit just for one day)! Did anyone see me on the ITN news? http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/10/nhunt10.xml[^] Now I will fade back into insignificance!
MOO!!
Hello Moo, My Mum comes from down your way, she grew up in Crediton and now lives in Sydney. I spent a few days in Devon visiting relatives on their farms, walking on Dartmoore and eating endless blackbury and apple cumbles in October and it is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. Shame about the beer though :)
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If you think that banning the practise of allowing people to chase foxes with a pack of dogs with the sole purpose of hoping to see them torn to pieces "for fun" is going to somehow wreck the countryside then you need to take a reality check Giles. I hope that you will be able to continue chasing animals off your land and agree to even think of criminalising you for this is madness, but I will be very pleased when hunting foxes with dogs is consigned to the dustbin of history along with other such barbaric pursuits as badger baiting and cock fighting.
A friend of mine used to hunt, she went out 10 times a year for 5 years, they 'caught' one fox it was shot. I do find it strange that killing a fox, which is vermin, is banned but fishing for fun, i.e. hooking a fish, handlng it then putting into a keep net with many other fish is still allowed in a 'civilised' British society. Perhaps banning fishing would cost the govenment too many votes?
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Neils Bohr
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Hello Moo, My Mum comes from down your way, she grew up in Crediton and now lives in Sydney. I spent a few days in Devon visiting relatives on their farms, walking on Dartmoore and eating endless blackbury and apple cumbles in October and it is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. Shame about the beer though :)
Thank you for your kind comments. Don't drink the beer - stick to the cider!
MOO!!
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A friend of mine used to hunt, she went out 10 times a year for 5 years, they 'caught' one fox it was shot. I do find it strange that killing a fox, which is vermin, is banned but fishing for fun, i.e. hooking a fish, handlng it then putting into a keep net with many other fish is still allowed in a 'civilised' British society. Perhaps banning fishing would cost the govenment too many votes?
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Neils Bohr
They don't ban fishing because its not a 'class' issue. Shooting causes far more suffering to foxes than hunting as shooting can leave up to 60% wounded which then die lingering deaths. Fox hunting alos mirrors natural selection which because we have removed foxes natural predators is the main way in which we maintain a healthy population of foxes.
MOO!!
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Hunts kill 100% of all animals caught. The tearing to pieces is irrelevant as the animals are already dead. Shooting leaves up to 60% injured which then die in far worse agony. Hunting causes far less suffering than shooting. Since the ban in Scotland twice as many animals are killed by shooting. The current ban states that I have to shoot animals which currently I let go. Defra's loophole is probably rubbish and doesn't get around it. I will keep letting them go by breaking the law. Two interesting articles: http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/pdf/The_Need_to_Manage_Some_Wildlife_Populations.pdf[^] http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evidence/richardcoursesubmission.htm[^] This from the ex director of LACS! - someone whose changed their mind is always worth listening to.
MOO!!
MOOOO! wrote: The tearing to pieces is irrelevant as the animals are already dead Surely that is how they are killed ? I agree that a 'clean kill' by shooting is not reliable though. It's a mess. The tigress is here :-D
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MOOOO! wrote: The tearing to pieces is irrelevant as the animals are already dead Surely that is how they are killed ? I agree that a 'clean kill' by shooting is not reliable though. It's a mess. The tigress is here :-D
Generally they are killed in the first few seconds after they have been caught by a bite to the neck. If the hounds do tear them apart then they are already dead. Deer are not actually attacked by the hounds, they are shot at close range once the hounds have cornered them. The article by the ex LACS (League Against Cruel Sports) director is really interesting as it is by someone who doesn't like hunting but also opposes a ban. Once hunting is banned far more animals will be shot resulting in more sufferring. Also many landowners will stop tolerating Red Deer and will simply wipe them out as happened in the East of England where they are now extimct following the cessation of Deer hunting there.
MOO!!
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I've almost given up these rants as most people are far too prejudiced to listen to how they are wreaking our beautiful countryside. But hey I got famous (albeit just for one day)! Did anyone see me on the ITN news? http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/10/nhunt10.xml[^] Now I will fade back into insignificance!
MOO!!
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A friend of mine used to hunt, she went out 10 times a year for 5 years, they 'caught' one fox it was shot. I do find it strange that killing a fox, which is vermin, is banned but fishing for fun, i.e. hooking a fish, handlng it then putting into a keep net with many other fish is still allowed in a 'civilised' British society. Perhaps banning fishing would cost the govenment too many votes?
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Neils Bohr
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I'm afraid that fish would need to get a whole lot more charismatic before many people take an interest in their plight. A 'nice cuddly' mammal like a fox (how graceful, how proud, how cute) is much more apt to get attention in this respect.
These people have never have seen a fox in their towns and cities, only the TV. I saw one returning from the pub one evening (me, not the fox) and the poor thing seemed to be rotting yet it was still very much alive. It was disgusting. If I had a gun with me I would have killed it out of mercy. If it had a human owner they would be imprisoned and banned from keeping animals for life for allowing that to happen. The best not-too-graphic picture I could find[^] When we take away an animals predators we have a duty to protect it from overpopulation - it was our fault to start with so we should damned well take responsibility for the problem to stop it getting any worse. Most people don't understand the meaning of humane - their views of animals come from nature shows where the fluffly little foxes and rabbits play hide-and-seek in the meadows and the cameras look away when the kills are made like staged wrestling on WWE Smackdown. Banning hunting with dogs was and still is a moral class war. No one really cared about the animals (on either side). As it has been mentioned, the prey is very rarely alive when the dogs start to rip it apart - nature doesn't hang around when it is time to kill something. Shooting them to control numbers is only slighlty more humane than setting traps to break their legs and starve them to death. I wish I was joking, but I would have thought with all the coverage the Iraq Liberation War has had in the news these morally superior voters would have seen that even the best trained soldiers in the world do not always kill cleanly with one shot. Death can takes days. And they have much more advanced technology than farmers can buy in the UK. X|
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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I'm afraid that fish would need to get a whole lot more charismatic before many people take an interest in their plight. A 'nice cuddly' mammal like a fox (how graceful, how proud, how cute) is much more apt to get attention in this respect.
The 'nice cuddly' animal that during lambing time will kill all the lambs in a field, and maybe eat one.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Neils Bohr
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Hello Moo, My Mum comes from down your way, she grew up in Crediton and now lives in Sydney. I spent a few days in Devon visiting relatives on their farms, walking on Dartmoore and eating endless blackbury and apple cumbles in October and it is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. Shame about the beer though :)
Don't listen to Giles, stick to the imported beer. :) I live in Tiverton, not that far away from Crediton, and certainly within the UK I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I don't get much chance for it anymore, but I used to love going out on Dartmoor and hiking around. You can never tread in too much donkey shit. I have also had the humble privallege of driving through the Exe Valley to get work daily along the old Tiverton-Exeter road, and get to see some of the most beautiful countryside possible. It is like travelling through Middle Earth. We could all get there quicker by using the motorway but more and more people are choosing to take the scenic roads while we still can. If you ever get the chance come down and walk along the Grand Western Canal[^] till the sun goes down. It is amazing to think this goes right through the middle of some the biggest market towns in the area and yet feels like it is hundreds of miles from anywhere. I :love: Devon. :-D
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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If you think that banning the practise of allowing people to chase foxes with a pack of dogs with the sole purpose of hoping to see them torn to pieces "for fun" is going to somehow wreck the countryside then you need to take a reality check Giles. I hope that you will be able to continue chasing animals off your land and agree to even think of criminalising you for this is madness, but I will be very pleased when hunting foxes with dogs is consigned to the dustbin of history along with other such barbaric pursuits as badger baiting and cock fighting.
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These people have never have seen a fox in their towns and cities, only the TV. I saw one returning from the pub one evening (me, not the fox) and the poor thing seemed to be rotting yet it was still very much alive. It was disgusting. If I had a gun with me I would have killed it out of mercy. If it had a human owner they would be imprisoned and banned from keeping animals for life for allowing that to happen. The best not-too-graphic picture I could find[^] When we take away an animals predators we have a duty to protect it from overpopulation - it was our fault to start with so we should damned well take responsibility for the problem to stop it getting any worse. Most people don't understand the meaning of humane - their views of animals come from nature shows where the fluffly little foxes and rabbits play hide-and-seek in the meadows and the cameras look away when the kills are made like staged wrestling on WWE Smackdown. Banning hunting with dogs was and still is a moral class war. No one really cared about the animals (on either side). As it has been mentioned, the prey is very rarely alive when the dogs start to rip it apart - nature doesn't hang around when it is time to kill something. Shooting them to control numbers is only slighlty more humane than setting traps to break their legs and starve them to death. I wish I was joking, but I would have thought with all the coverage the Iraq Liberation War has had in the news these morally superior voters would have seen that even the best trained soldiers in the world do not always kill cleanly with one shot. Death can takes days. And they have much more advanced technology than farmers can buy in the UK. X|
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
Well done!
MOO!!
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Thank you for your kind comments. Don't drink the beer - stick to the cider!
MOO!!
